Issue With Local Rowing Club

[Off Duty]

While not "rowers" as used in this sense, we are avid kayakers.
We are also on the Anclote River in Tarpon Springs a lot which is heavily travelled by both commercial and recreational boaters.

There are usually anywhere from just the 2 of us, to 15-70 kayakers, depending on the event. Most of the time we have at least one powered safety boat for emergencies, and usually at least one or two of us at the front and back of the pack keeping an extra eye on traffic.

I've always found that courtesy combined with vigilance goes a long way toward safety and cooperation between the communities. When we see/hear something coming, we communicate, just in case someone else didn't. We move to the outer edges of the waterway and give them a wide berth whenever possible. Heck, my "draft" is measured in inches and I can run this thing aground and not think anything about it. Can't say that for my powered brethren, so why not give them room?

In turn, we've found the vast majority of them slow way down, wave/speak, smile, give us a thumbs up, etc., and I've seen more than a few look back at their wake to make sure they were not upsetting any of the yaks. Yeah, there are always a few from both camps that will be jerks simply because they can! It's ingrained into their DNA.

Not that long ago we were blasted by a guy in a BIG arsed power boat.
You know the type. The "special guy" in the Go-Fast. Look at me. I have a bazillion dollars, a huge boat and a small....uh, never mind but you get the drift .

We saw him coming from way off and he wasn't backing down.
Of course we did our normal "into the shallows" to give him/them as much room as we could, then turned into the wake and rode it out. Everyone was rocked but no damage or injuries. Time to remember why we're on the water, smile and move along.
But he's one in a hundred.

We also have those on our end that have the "screw 'em, we're the less maneuverable vessel and have the ROW" attitude. All I can think of is the old traffic safety PSA...."you can be right....dead right!"

You're definitely on the right path and please let us know how you fare if you will. I have always found that communication, knowledge, courtesy and professionalism go along way to resolving issues. If that doesn't work try a "warbler" (used on some of the APC's now to disperse crowds). second thought don't try that

 

[Wxx3]

You have a great attitude and it does sound like there is a problem that needs to be worked out. I think approaching the director of the club is a great idea. If it was me, and I had the time, I would send the director an email asking to meet him/her to discuss it. Meeting over coffee somewhere (preferably somewhere that overlooks the river during a time that the club is actively practicing) would be my preference.

Again, if it was me I would state in the email that I wanted to get the director's suggestions on way that I could navigate the river without interfering with the kids in the boats. It has been my experience that being non-confrontational, helpful, and "meek" goes a long way to help develop a cooperative attitude.

In the meantime, I would also reach out to whomever has jurisdiction over that stretch of the navigable river and find out what the rules really are. The USCG, county sheriff or whomever, could give you some guidance ahead of the meeting IF they chose to be helpful.

Good luck.

I like this idea best too.

Though if it does not work, I would send an email saying the coach is putting his kids in danger.

Just last year a 3 kayak group was out and got run over by a small ferry leaving the dock (1 fatality). It was dusk and the Kayak are almost impossible to see.

Too many small boats think they have the "right of way" without seeming to understand that they also have a responsibility to stay out of harm's way.

Most Boat Safety courses emphasize this, the problem is too few people on the water actually go to class.

 

[Off Duty]

...Just last year a 3 kayak group was out and got run over by a small ferry leaving the dock (1 fatality). It was dusk and the Kayak are almost impossible to see.

Too many small boats think they have the "right of way" without seeming to understand that they also have a responsibility to stay out of harm's way.

Most Boat Safety courses emphasize this, the problem is too few people on the water actually go to class.

An you're correct.
My yak is extremely maneuverable, and while not "fast", I can spin it around and as mentioned previously, run it aground or into the mangroves around here to get out of the way. That barge, not so much.

While rarely out around dusk or dawn, I do carry an emergency bag. If I find myself out that late for any reason (probably won't catch me out early LOL), I'm going to light myself up so people can see me!

My question is, how can you (on a yak or shell), not see/hear a darned barge or power boat? Even with my music up (I use a Bluetooth waterproof speaker, and not buds or headset for that reason) I can see and hear big boats and horns...

 

[Nomad Willy]

TOO MANY PEOPLE.

The blcycle/car problem is almost the same.
Since we live in a time w way too many people everybody is fighting for space that they think belongs to them. Rowers block the channel, bicyclists go two or three abreast. Bicyclists go out in groups. Rowers go out in groups. In the group they feel the power and few would be inclined to say within the group "hey maybe we should move to the side". Not likely.

The rowers will form a "committee" to fight for their rights .. that they don't have but that will probably be beside the point.

Rowers like sailboaters are largely a good bunch of people so there may be hope. Depends a lot on whether the guru of the rowers is a nice person or a "my rights" type, full of competitiveness that will block progress.

Then the only option will be to go elsewhere or blast through like an angry Coot w loud and abrasive horn and threatening wake. That may work too depending on whether or not the rowers are more concerned about their perceived rights or their safety.

One of the problems may be (depending on channel width) that oars stick out so far that the rowboats can't get very close to each-other depending on channel width and number of rowboats.

Another problem may be that the OP may be overpropped and goes along quite fast even at idle. Or overpowered or both. Lots of variables from attitudes to geography to mechanics and other things.

But re the stats in the OP that talks of 4 and 8 person rowboats and 30 to 40 boats and narrow channel it sounds like talking to them will probably prove useless. Better perhaps to talk to an authority that has control over the channel. The authority may have much more affect on the rowers than a few power boaters. Perhaps they could or would outlaw rowing in the channel. BUT since there are so many rowers they may outlaw powerboats. Hmmm.

 

[Benthic2]

Take pictures so that any discussion can have visual aids.

 

[dhays]

I've always found that courtesy combined with vigilance goes a long way toward safety and cooperation between the communities. When we see/hear something coming, we communicate, just in case someone else didn't. We move to the outer edges of the waterway and give them a wide berth whenever possible. Heck, my "draft" is measured in inches and I can run this thing aground and not think anything about it. Can't say that for my powered brethren, so why not give them room?

In turn, we've found the vast majority of them slow way down, wave/speak, smile, give us a thumbs up, etc., and I've seen more than a few look back at their wake to make sure they were not upsetting any of the yaks. Yeah, there are always a few from both camps that will be jerks simply because they can! It's ingrained into their DNA.

We need more paddlers like you.

Here in Puget Sound we have lots of kayaks. These can be roughly divided into two groups; boaters with larger vessels who also enjoy kayaking, and non-boaters who kayak. The first group are easy to work around as they tend to understand the needs of other boaters and have a knowledge of the Nav rules.

The second group is roughly divided again into two types, the "serious" paddlers and the casual paddlers. There are a lot of "serious" kayakers that spend lots of time on the water year round like my 83 year old mother. Many, like her, used to be boaters so they understand the issues. They also do a lot of trips in groups where they can share knowledge and experience. These folks are never a problem as they are savvy and courteous.

The casual paddlers only go out on the warm, calm days. They have no boating experience (at least large boats) and honestly don't understand how to interact with other boats. It is this group that create the problems for us. My harbor has a very narrow and shallow entrance. It can be a tight squeeze at low tide and at a low tide, small craft are hidden. These paddlers love to hang out by the harbor entrance because it is lovely and interesting. Unfortunately, they just don't understand that if they are taking up the center channel in a no wake zone and a 2 knot current running through it, they can be hard to avoid.

We also have those on our end that have the "screw 'em, we're the less maneuverable vessel and have the ROW" attitude. All I can think of is the old traffic safety PSA...."you can be right....dead right!"

Most of the time, I think it is simply ignorance that just looks like a bad attitude. My boat may be faster than a Kayak out in open water but in the no-wake area of my harbor, I am often passed by the paddling teams as they practice. A casual kayaker may think that because I have an engine that I am more maneuverable than they are. That is hardly the case.

 

[mramoo]

There is a similar Problem in the lake Washington, Montlake Cut, Lake Union area. There are the crew boats, the paddle boards, the small and larger Sail boats and the power boats that all want to use the same space..... Then add the float planes into the mix. It's a wonder that someone is not injured everyday.

 

[Nomad Willy]

mramoo and PortageBay,
I used to rent canoes at the Lake Washington canoe house in the 50's. Congestion in the cut was bad then and the refraction waves were bad enough that I rarely ventured into the cut in really good weather. Big speed boats w multiple carburetors and direct drive gears didn't go very slow.

One would think it would be worse now due to many more people but I can't imagine how it could be worse. But how could it not be. After our trip to the South Sound I want to go through the locks, the cuts and to Seward Park and anchor. Come to think of it I almost certianly won't be doing that in the middle of the summer.

Benthic2,
I agree. The OP's situation needs more clarity. How narrow is narrow ect.
togotch's boat is just 23'. I missed that and assumed he had a trawler. But the numbers of row boats in a narrow channel sounds impossible. Perhaps something has been exagerated. I see he's only got nine posts so we're not familar w him so can only guess. And I've never seen a situation that could'nt be benign w a little common sense courtesy. But what he describes I've never seen. Been in SE Alaska for 8 years too.

 

[The Other Gary]

Seems pretty simple to me. You are the give way vessel.


Following is the order of increasing maneuverability. Any boat lower on the list must give way to boats higher on the


list:






 A disabled boat


 A boat that is difficult to maneuver, like a dredge or barge in tow


 A boat whose maneuverability is restricted by size or draft, like a freighter


 A boat engaged in commercial fishing, like a trawler


 A boat being rowed


 A sailboat


 A recreational powerboat

 

[Woodland Hills]

I do not think anyone has denied that is the operative regulation, the question is can rowers use this rule to deny access or exit to other boaters. Can they leverage this into total control of the waterway in question to the extent that others cannot also share the same channel.

 

[Art]

Seems pretty simple to me. You are the give way vessel.


Following is the order of increasing maneuverability. Any boat lower on the list must give way to boats higher on the


list:






 A disabled boat


 A boat that is difficult to maneuver, like a dredge or barge in tow


 A boat whose maneuverability is restricted by size or draft, like a freighter


 A boat engaged in commercial fishing, like a trawler


 A boat being rowed


 A sailboat


 A recreational powerboat

Yup - We recreational power boaters - also termed pleasure boaters, stink potters, wave makers... among other thangs... are low persons on the right of way totem pole. While plentifully spending lots o' big "Boat Bucks" every year!

Wonder what level on the list a recreational swimmer holds?? :lol:

MOB is #1 in my book!!

 

[tgotch]

I have heard from the President of the club. He said he would talk with the coaches this weekend when he sees them. I told him I would welcome the opportunity to work with him on this matter.

 

[tgotch]

I agree. The OP's situation needs more clarity. How narrow is narrow ect.
togotch's boat is just 23'. I missed that and assumed he had a trawler. But the numbers of row boats in a narrow channel sounds impossible. Perhaps something has been exagerated. I see he's only got nine posts so we're not familar w him so can only guess. And I've never seen a situation that could'nt be benign w a little common sense courtesy. But what he describes I've never seen. Been in SE Alaska for 8 years too.

The river is probably 200-300 ft wide in most areas. As I mentioned, the number of rowers is spread over a mile+. There may be 5-10 congregated in one area, then another 4-5 a 1/4 mile down river, 2 here, 3 there, and so on...

I understand I am give way boat in this situation. I have been on boats my whole life (52 years), and operating them since I was 16. Taken USCG classes. My issue is that they are impeding navigation, and creating a hazard for themselves and other boaters.

I have attached an image (not mine) of what the river looks like. Imagine 4-6+ rowers abreast, and you kinda get the picture. This is where the river dumps into the Ohio, so it is wider in this area

.

 

[Art]

I have heard from the President of the club. He said he would talk with the coaches this weekend when he sees them. I told him I would welcome the opportunity to work with him on this matter.

Cool! Sounds like a good way to go!!

 

[BruceK]

I have heard from the President of the club. He said he would talk with the coaches this weekend when he sees them. I told him I would welcome the opportunity to work with him on this matter.

Good approach. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
But, honey won`t kill mould on canvas.

 

[tgotch]

But, honey won`t kill mould on canvas.

You've tried? :lol:

 

[dhays]

I have heard from the President of the club. He said he would talk with the coaches this weekend when he sees them. I told him I would welcome the opportunity to work with him on this matter.

Excellent. Dialog is always a god plan.

 

[BandB]

Excellent. Dialog is always a god plan.

Wifey B: That too.....

 

[Off Duty]

yup
Good start

 

[markpierce]

This is about the usual level of rower-club "interference" here:

 

[markpierce]

Kayakers can be hard to spot. Bright clothing and paddles would be a good thing.

 

[tgotch]

**UPDATE** - For anyone interested.

Never heard back from President of club about talking with his coaches.

The local water enforcement agency did however, write a letter to the president. I received a copy last night.

Sounds like there might be past/ongoing issues with this club.

Regarding the impeding navigation issue, he cited even though they have the right of way:

all vessels shall keep to the right of center channel (301 KAR 6:030, section 6 (j)).

The club has also painted "no wake" signs on the bridge piers that are close to their launch point. He pointed out that only Local enforcement, and USCG can post such signs, and this is in fact, not a "no wake zone." It also creates confusion for many boaters.

Finally, he mentioned he has given leeway in the past for many safety violations of the club:

Unregistered (escort boats)
Insufficient (or none) PFD (escort boats)
No Fire extinquishers (escort boats)

He offered an opportunity to the president to discuss these issues.

Waiting to hear back.

 

[Marlinmike]

And I'm sure it won't be the last complaint, everyone needs to share the water:
"Sounds like there might be past/ongoing issues with this club. "

 

[Sea Q]

Another thing is people get out doors more and have more time to do it 40 years ago you worked to put food on the table and had no time, now no one goes hungry and you have more time for playing
We have the same in Vancouver in coal harbor with rowing club they are all good guys just trying to enjoy the sport
Same problem under the Lions gate bridge with 5 sailboat blockade all abeam at 2 knots and you are trying to pass thru
On the down town roads with bicycles. In Stanley park main road, groups of bikes tanking up a full 2 lanes not letting you pass.
In the mountains where mountain bikes have taken over trails and back roads where you can't walk or ride your motorcycle anymore.
Things change and you have to live together (somehow).
I heard of a hiking club back in the Maritimes that built a bunch of trails only to have a mountain biking club demanding that the hiking guys don't use it anymore.

 

[BandB]

Another thing is people get out doors more and have more time to do it 40 years ago you worked to put food on the table and had no time, now no one goes hungry and you have more time for playing

Wifey B: I'm sorry but you're missing something, perhaps you're retired. But two things. First, working people today, on the whole, have less time to get out doors and enjoy themselves and play. Second, the no one goes hungry comment. Please don't say or believe that. 1 in 6 people in the US face "food insecurity." 17.5 million households in the US. 49 million people. 1 in 5 children. A lot of kids who depend so much on school lunch programs and suffer in the summer. Hunger is real. I've seen kids when they arrive at the orphanage starving and then seeing all the food, we'd have to watch them to keep them from overdoing it. I remember the kid who got a cheeseburger from McDonalds bought by the cop who rescued him and thought that with the fries was the most wonderful meal ever.

That's without even mentioning the world. 795 million people are hungry. 3 million children under 5 die each year from malnutrition.

Sorry to take this further off topic, but please please let's not anyone forget there are hungry people out there. We, here on this forum, all boaters, we're all among the fortunate and lucky ones.

I just had to say this as I sit here eating a wonderful lunch many would give anything to have and as long as there's one hungry child, that will be one too many.

 

[Northern Spy]

Statistically, we work more now and earn less than in the 70s.

(Says the guy who just worked 24, fourteen hour days straight with four days off to go home, and now working 21 days this shift.)

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. tg. The lack of response from the president of the rowing club might be for a few reasons. He has been chewed out before and doesn't want a repeat. He has the attitude that his rowers take precedence because they are non powered vessels. He's being a prig in that HIS rowers have every right to use the river as they see fit and to heck with the rest of the lawful users.

Since he has been warned by the local LEO's before and IF there is still no satisfactory understanding reached, I would suggest that you insist that the LEO's watch them like hawks and ticket and fine where appropriate. NO leeway this time. Conform to the law or get off the water. It seems you have made every possible effort to resolve this hazard so the ball is in the president's court.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Wifey B: I'm sorry but you're missing something, perhaps you're retired. But two things. First, working people today, on the whole, have less time to get out doors and enjoy themselves and play. Second, the no one goes hungry comment. Please don't say or believe that. 1 in 6 people in the US face "food insecurity." 17.5 million households in the US. 49 million people. 1 in 5 children. A lot of kids who depend so much on school lunch programs and suffer in the summer. Hunger is real. I've seen kids when they arrive at the orphanage starving and then seeing all the food, we'd have to watch them to keep them from overdoing it. I remember the kid who got a cheeseburger from McDonalds bought by the cop who rescued him and thought that with the fries was the most wonderful meal ever.

That's without even mentioning the world. 795 million people are hungry. 3 million children under 5 die each year from malnutrition.

Sorry to take this further off topic, but please please let's not anyone forget there are hungry people out there. We, here on this forum, all boaters, we're all among the fortunate and lucky ones.

I just had to say this as I sit here eating a wonderful lunch many would give anything to have and as long as there's one hungry child, that will be one too many.

If they aren't Americans, why should I care?

If they aren't from my state, why should I care?

If they aren't from my town, why should I care?

If they aren't from my neighborhood, why should I care?

If they aren't from my street, why should I care?

If they aren't from my family, why should I care?

If it isn't me, why should I care?

If it is me, why should anyone else care?

E Pluribus Unum = You're on your own.........

 

[Benthic2]

If they aren't Americans, why should I care?

If they aren't from my state, why should I care?

If they aren't from my town, why should I care?

If they aren't from my neighborhood, why should I care?

If they aren't from my street, why should I care?

If they aren't from my family, why should I care?

If it isn't me, why should I care?

If it is me, why should anyone else care?

E Pluribus Unum = You're on your own.........

I'm stunned that someone would post this....absolutely stunned.

Because we are all on this rock together and what happens to one of us affects us all.

Because humans are compassionate beings.

Because poverty is a burden on society and all people benefit when poverty is diminished.

as Confucious said:
"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of..."

or better yet.....ask Marie Antionette !!

 

[dhays]

I'm stunned that someone would post this....absolutely stunned.
/QUOTE]


I read it as irony.