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Old 10-13-2016, 05:48 PM   #41
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Exactly my point...it is easy to say a boat is over or poorly loaded when it capsizes.....

How good are TFers at loading their boats?

That's my point....knowing the warning signs without a formula that I know is rediculous for many boats in many situations.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:55 PM   #42
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Google results are in:

Capsized boat in San Francisco Bay may have been overloaded | The Sacramento Bee

Boat that capsized off Fisherman’s Wharf overloaded, police say - SFGate

Apparently we're not the only ones who think 30 people on a 34 Silverton is overloaded.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:02 PM   #43
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I counted 20 from the picture? Others were in cabin.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
How good are TFers at loading their boats?
.
I suspect good at it 99.5% of the time. Perhaps good on their main boat but not on their dinghy sometimes. It's still that 0.5% of the time we have to be careful. I'm very conservative in loading and very controlling in where people sit or what they do on a boat. I doubt that I've ever exceeded the formula you think is ridiculously conservative, not by using it, just by nature. Far more overloading of smaller boats than TF types and of sport boats than trawler types.

I'm a bit along the rule too that if there isn't a seat for everyone, then you have too many. Nothing scientific.

We have had occasion in which we had one more person than our Rib was set up and rated for. It's been very hard to say we have to make two trips. My feeling though is once you cross the line, it becomes easier, so I don't cross it. If I can find a way to justify it today, then I'll find justification again next time.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:15 PM   #45
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Experience is the factor.

You post a lot about business and insurance that I know little about.

You make good, justifiable points that I can go and verify.

The same is true of boating and flying......knowledge and experience allow for "guessing right" when there are no absolutes.

A 34 Silverton may be fine with 30 people on board if they all stayed put like sandbags. I would have to run a few numbers or look at the waterline to make that educated guess when loaded. The feel of how a boat moves even a few degrees tied to the dock is a telltale. Roll and recovery says a lot...even a tiny bit let's you know if more extreme roll will be unrecoverable or nearly so.

On review, look at the waterline....other than being down by the bow a touch, it doesn't look as overloaded as allowed to become poorly loaded.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:50 PM   #46
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I once had 23 people aboard for my boat's christening in the CA Delta one summer evening. We were at anchor with our boating buddies aboard from nearby anchored sailboats and trawlers. All were VERY boat savvy in benign conditions and we weren't going anywhere. The whole boat was surrounded with 7 or 8 dinghies and we had enough PFDs.

It's a whole 'nuther story to be moving around the SF Bay in the year's most crowded event in challenging conditions with young families aboard totaling 30 people. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either someone fell overboard or the way the boat was positioned re: the airshow display that caused everyone to shift to one side and over they went. I'm not predicting, but I have a hunch...
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:08 PM   #47
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BandB,
To answer your question, I think that the scenario in 2A or 2B are both much worse than #1. In your first scenario, the father intended to the do the right thing but simply had a brain fade. I have often the wrong exit for example simply by being on automatic pilot. This was an accident in the truest sense of the word.

In both 2A and 2B the captain made a conscious decision to operate the vessel in an unsafe manner either through ignorance or a callous disregard for both common sense and the rules. Even if a capsize had never occurred, this would be a much more serious offense than the poor father simply because it was intentional.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:24 PM   #48
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A 34 Silverton may be fine with 30 people on board if they all stayed put like sandbags. .
And if it requires an assumption of staying put like sand bags, then that's, in my opinion, overloaded. The sand bags will shift.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:29 PM   #49
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I can see the concept of overloaded and poorly loaded I'd being lost.......
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:24 PM   #50
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Boat loading safety is more than just number of people.

There are times I get concerned at how my boat is loaded with only 4 people on board. In rough water, the "rules" change completely. I make sure heavy items such as tool boxes and jerry cans are down low, and secure; even in a knock down. Not only stored items but fixtures as well. Hot water heaters, refrigerators, fuel tanks, batteries can all break loose and have the potential to sink a boat.

Imagine what could happen if you got hit by a big a wake and it caused your 20lb tool box to slide forcefully into your seacock. It would be like hitting your seacock with a big sledge hammer.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Boat loading safety is more than just number of people.

There are times I get concerned at how my boat is loaded with only 4 people on board. In rough water, the "rules" change completely. I make sure heavy items such as tool boxes and jerry cans are down low, and secure; even in a knock down. Not only stored items but fixtures as well. Hot water heaters, refrigerators, fuel tanks, batteries can all break loose and have the potential to sink a boat.

Imagine what could happen if you got hit by a big a wake and it caused your 20lb tool box to slide forcefully into your seacock. It would be like hitting your seacock with a big sledge hammer.
All true! Interesting that you mention potential of tool box hitting seacock with sledge hammer force. I was trained when young that ALL heavy items should always be stored well secured so that even if in any type of rough seas at any time they cannot slide out of place. I practice that rule constantly.
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