Whats up with marinas that have no cleats?

[DDW]

Or they could just put in cleats? I've seen a few marinas in BC which had cleats mounted on top of the bull rails.

This is your dock lines on bull rails. Marvelous. Even the slightest care installing them (run a corner rounding bit down the edges) would at least help this. Once in a great while you will find some that are good wood and worn smooth.

 

[dhays]

Or they could just put in cleats? I've seen a few marinas in BC which had cleats mounted on top of the bull rails.

This is your dock lines on bull rails. Marvelous. Even the slightest care installing them (run a corner rounding bit down the edges) would at least help this. Once in a great while you will find some that are good wood and worn smooth.

Yeah, my lines look like that pretty often. OTOH, they can pick up those splinters from many of the older docks around even without bull rails.

 

[Sea Q]

I like the 4x4 the best it gives you more spots to tie up and spread the load around
I also think they are stronger because it spreads the tension around to many bolt down spots on the dock also should you get any major wave wash they tend to give and move a little
I notice cleats mainly on cement docks probably because they can be more securely fastened.
I have always hated tripping on a cleat and it is so much easyer stepping off on the 4x4 .Try Gibson's dock it has like a 12 x 12 That's a bitch

I would also think in the PNW the 4x4 adds some strength to the dock
we get some bad winter storms up here
Just look at Ganges harbor marina dock every spring

 

[koliver]

Yeah, my lines look like that pretty often. OTOH, they can pick up those splinters from many of the older docks around even without bull rails.

Splinters from a bull rail can happen, but far more frequently I get splinters from the dock boards.
Braided line, especially when new, picks up splinters far faster than older line or twisted line.
Most heavily used docks have bull rails with worn corners, so no splinters.
Bull rails provide a consistent tie up. Cleats don't. The few docks I have tied to that have cleats have too few, spaced for permanent moorings at a spacing that doesn't work well for my boat. Bull rails have supports every 6 ft or so, and you can tie anywhere between them. I always use a pair of spring lines tied off just beyond the supports, one fwd and one aft, and the bow and stern lines tied off perpendicular to their origins on the boat. I always tie a clove hitch, starting with the line over the bull rail. This gives me a secure tie, easily removed, no slippage at all when I put on a locking half hitch around the standing part.

 

[Lepke]

It is the boats job to tend their lines. As a courtesy, the loop goes to the dock or boat you are attempting to tie alongside. In the commercial world, if you put a loop over your cleat and toss the end, most will fasten near the end of the line and walk off. I do. It's not my job or liability to adjust your boats lines.

Most yachties dock in a semi-controlled crash. Never do they spend the time practicing boat handling or read books about or really study boat handling. I've seen enough docking accidents and innocent, helpful line handlers injured to want to do any more than a simple dropping a loop over a cleat. I only allow people I know to tie alongside or stop at my dock.

 

[DDW]

Very rarely do I find a dock with cleats that I cannot tie up to reasonably - certainly no more often than bull rails. When docking short handed it is much quicker to get a line around a cleat than under or over a bull rail. If you are practiced you can do it without leaving the deck.

I've yet to see a dock rebuilt and change from cleats to bull rails. I've seen a number change from bull rails to cleats. Progress marches forward.

Most of the time I don't depend on people on the dock. You really don't know if they have the sense God gave lettuce - many don't. They'll hang onto a line by hand till they get dragged in the water, or throw it under your prop at the last minute. What seems like it might work for a runabout doesn't for a 30,000 lb boat with 20 knots crosswind.

 

[caltexflanc]

You can tie to a bull rail all along, but not with a breast line as it will slip, or an angled bow or stern line

Not true, a clove hitch or better yet a double clove hitch/ rolling hitch do the trick. People who struggle with bull rails (which I've seen everywhere along the west coast as far south as the California Delta) usually don't have a full armory of knots in their bag.

I leave a spliced eye around the cleat on my boat and use the bitter end on the dock. I also find it easier under certain circumstances to leave the dock.

And what are those pray tell?

 

[MurrayM]

Isn't it considered bad form to go to another area and complain about how they do things, and/or tell them how things should be done?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I saw the Canadian Navy run the line under the bull rail, then use the line loop around a separate piece of 4 x 4 and stand it up, pull tight, no splinters

 

[DDW]

Isn't it considered bad form to go to another area and complain about how they do things, and/or tell them how things should be done?

That's the human condition, isn't it? Especially when your suggestion is an improvement.....

Not true, a clove hitch or better yet a double clove hitch/ rolling hitch do the trick. People who struggle with bull rails (which I've seen everywhere along the west coast as far south as the California Delta) usually don't have a full armory of knots in their bag.

I can tie any sort of knot including a clove hitch. I can tell you from some experience that if you get a lot of jerking on the dock lines due to a night of ferry wakes as an example, a clove hitch can slide quite a distance on a bull rail. The full length on steel ones, not much on a really nasty splintery one. You can tie a rolling hitch or better still an icicle hitch and perhaps keep them in place, but a cleat is for sure and so much simpler.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Murray wrote;
“Isn't it considered bad form to go to another area and complain about how they do things, and/or tell them how things should be done?”

Couldn’t agree more. 10 thumbs up!

 

[Stabi]

Isn't it considered bad form to go to another area and complain about how they do things, and/or tell them how things should be done?

+1

That's the human condition, isn't it? Especially when your suggestion is an improvement.....


REALLY???

maybe in CA

 

[MurrayM]

That's the human condition, isn't it? Especially when your suggestion is an improvement.....

I thought it was to have the skills to adapt, and be respectful of others traditions.

 

[koliver]

That's the human condition, isn't it? Especially when your suggestion is an improvement.....


I can tie any sort of knot including a clove hitch. I can tell you from some experience that if you get a lot of jerking on the dock lines due to a night of ferry wakes as an example, a clove hitch can slide quite a distance on a bull rail. The full length on steel ones, not much on a really nasty splintery one. You can tie a rolling hitch or better still an icicle hitch and perhaps keep them in place, but a cleat is for sure and so much simpler.

Which is why, when tying on a bull rail, you place your lines carefully, just where they would end up after sliding along the bull rail.

 

[Nomad Willy]

That’s one reason I have long spring lines. And I tie on the far side of the vertical support under the top rail. No sliding and the boat stays put.

 

[hollywood8118]

Personally I dont mind bull rails, never got a splinter off one yet. I do like the ability to tie off wherever it works best. I always figured the bull rail added a touch of safety to folks stepping off a dock as they add a additional visual boundary at the edge of the dock. But they can be a burden when stepping up to the dock from a dinghy if the dock floats high off the water.
Hollywood

 

[Sabre602]

I grew up boating on the east coast. No floating docks, no finger piers in most areas and the ones we had were impossibly narrow and five feet higher than the boat. Lots and lots of pilings. No rails, no cleats.

So we have floating docks everywhere, some bull rails, some cleats. Which is better? First world problems!

 

[MurrayM]

I grew up boating on the east coast. No floating docks, no finger piers in most areas and the ones we had were impossibly narrow and five feet higher than the boat. Lots and lots of pilings. No rails, no cleats.

So we have floating docks everywhere, some bull rails, some cleats. Which is better? First world problems!

Isn't it funny, that no matter where you go, the locals seem to manage just fine

 

[psneeld]

Funny, where I come from, experienced boaters can tie up anyplace using various methods.

Feeling like one way or another is best is like picking a hammer out of a tool box and saying its the best tool.

Almost every method here has its merits and detractors..... depends on a few factors which one a wise skipper might chose for that situation.

I probably use all of them in a 3000 mile annual trip....and a few more of my own.

 

[AusCan]

Here in South Austria the docks are floating concrete type with cleats. They are all fairly new and modern, but I find them rather boring and without character.
(after 35 years here, I've earned the right to criticise)

I miss the old wooden docks of BC. The ones on the interior waterways are even more "rustic" than the docks on the coast. I will be chartering a boat on Kootenay lake in August. Over there, many of the wooden docks are unlevel or even below water in sections. There's planks missing that you have to step over, and the odd nail head sticking up.

I'd probably complain about it if it was my home dock, but I'm looking forward to revisiting a genuine part of my heritage.

 

[TDunn]

I like bull rails. I can lag bolt my cleats down exactly where I want them

 

[saltcod]

Here in South Austria the docks are floating concrete type with cleats. They are all fairly new and modern, but I find them rather boring and without character.
(after 35 years here, I've earned the right to criticise)

I miss the old wooden docks of BC. The ones on the interior waterways are even more "rustic" than the docks on the coast. I will be chartering a boat on Kootenay lake in August. Over there, many of the wooden docks are unlevel or even below water in sections. There's planks missing that you have to step over, and the odd nail head sticking up.

I'd probably complain about it if it was my home dock, but I'm looking forward to revisiting a genuine part of my heritage.

Hey I thought Austria was landlocked. Maybe you're in Australia?

 

[Rough Magic]

Here in Southern California, Santa Catalina Isle, etc, the dingy docks have bull rails, and glad of it. When busy, each dink has its own tie, not laid over a cleat with 6 or 8 other lines that then must be taken off, and put back after removing your painter. Lots better system.

 

[hmason]

Moveable cleats in the track system.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Moveable cleats in the track system.

That is really nice