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Old 08-22-2017, 09:57 PM   #1
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Need Recommendation for Summer Haul-out in St-John's river area

Greetings! We are preparing our trip to the Bahamas.

We are planning to keep our Pilgrim 40 in Florida as we can only enjoy cruising in the USA for 183 days from IRS perspective...

Our insurance broker recommends that we haul-out in the St-John's river area during the Hurricane season? (From June 1st to November 30th) as our vessel with be boat be located between 12°- 35° North and 55°- 85° West during this period.


Before obtaining the new insurance policy... We must submit a hurricane questionnaire to the Marina for Dry Dock Storage and we have to ask the marina the following questions:

Q1: Could you please provide us a copy of your marina obligations in the event of a hurricane?

Q2: Will all the stands supporting the vessel be chained together? Yes or No

Q3: Will the supports be held by helical anchors drilled into the ground? Yes or No

Q4: Could you please provide relevant information and other security measures in your shipyard?


We have to provide copy of the marina contract that clearly indicates the marina's obligations in the event of a hurricane.

Based on your personal experience, we certainly would welcome any suggestions and recommendations as to an appropriate marina location to accommodate us in hauling-out during the summer season...

Thank you for your help!

and Kindest regards! Normand
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:12 PM   #2
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Real Mountie, the 183 days can be waived if you file an IRS 8840. This will be much more common going forward as the Erie Canal has shortened their season whereby a snowbird travelling by boat will have to be in the US almost 8 months if they do not go to the Bahamas.


US Tax Forms - IRS Forms W8-BEN and 8840 - Canadian Snowbird Association
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:18 PM   #3
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Why not just insure the boat to be in Florida and keep her in the water around JAX for the full year? Then enjoy her year round.
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:19 AM   #4
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Form 8840 - does not waive if you exceed 183 days

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Originally Posted by The Other Gary View Post
Real Mountie, the 183 days can be waived if you file an IRS 8840. This will be much more common going forward as the Erie Canal has shortened their season whereby a snowbird travelling by boat will have to be in the US almost 8 months if they do not go to the Bahamas.


US Tax Forms - IRS Forms W8-BEN and 8840 - Canadian Snowbird Association
Hello The Other Gary! Thank you for sharing your comments.

I do not interpret the narrative the same way...

I cannot agree with the waiving as I file my 8840 since 2009. And unless you convince me with more arguments i firmly believe that if you exceed 183 days you are required to file a 1040NR form and your Canadian Taxes forms, as you will get a credit from Revenu Canada.

I did write to IRS in late June in order to get confirmation on it (No answer as yet!!!) :

************************************************** **********
Internal Revenue Service
International Accounts
Philadelphia, PA 19255-0725. USA


Subject: Foreign Flag pleasure vessel - Master and crew calculating days while cruising in transit to from different Ports of call transiting to the Bahamas.

Dear Sir, Madam,

As the skipper on our vessel, I entered the USA on the 25 of April 2017 and cruise on my pleasure vessel from Lake Champlain , NY in transit to the Bahamas. I will wait in Oriental or Moorehead city until after November 24th (7 months) for the end of hurricane season. My wife (the admiral) will join me on August 2nd (151 days) for the trip leaving Lake Champlain.**Due to the high probabilities that I will extend my stay (251 days minus the days spent in the Bahamas depending on weather conditions) for more that 183 days.* I do not have any income in the USA and that I file my income taxes in Canada.

Do I qualify for the exceptions to this rule in counting the following as days of presence in the U.S. for the substantial presence test? :

Do not count the following as days of presence in the U.S. for the substantial presence test, days you are in the U.S. as a crew member of a foreign vessel.

Quote: "Considering that you are treated as present in the U.S. on any day you are physically present in the country, at any time during the day. However, there are exceptions to this rule. Do not count the following as days of presence in the U.S. for the substantial presence test:
Days you are in the U.S. as a crew member of a foreign vessel." Unquote.

Q1 :Could it be fair and reasonable to deduct the days we are cruising and nights we are anchored in the U.S. as a crew member of a foreign vessel from the IRS perspective?
If not...
Q2 :Is it possible to file to be best of my knowledge 1040NR form and a request the Canada/U.S. Tax Treaty protection using a simple phrase and/or using an appropriate Treaty article number that would fit my situation?

Q3 : Should I file with my 8840 form, with W-7 form?*

Q4 :If Yes, should I check the reason be a) or/and h)?

Q5 : Should I file a form 8833 even that I do not have any income in the US?

Q6 : If Yes, what would be the appropriate treaty position for my situation?

Thank you for your clarification and lease accept my kindest regards

************************************************** ******


Kindest regards! Normand
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:53 AM   #5
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I would recommend you getting with a tax accountant experienced with Canadians in the US or a Maritime Attorney. There are plenty of both who would have knowledge and your answers in South Florida.

There are too many intricacies and without knowing far more details of your situation the answers may be wrong.
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Old 08-23-2017, 06:50 AM   #6
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Normand - you might want to contact Gibson Dry Docks in San Mateo (south of Palatka). Also, Acosta Marine in Welaka.

Both are in rather rural areas and about 50-60 miles south of Jacksonville and 30 miles from the coast.

Further north at Green Cove Springs, there is a large dry storage facility but I am unaware of the name. Activecaptain should be your friend in this search.

We have not used any of these facilities so can't tell you more about them.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:51 AM   #7
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I would suggest Reynolds Park Yacht Center in Green Cove Springs. Holland Marine has a lift on site that has hauled 47 foot Great Harbour trawlers, so hauling your 40 foot Pilgrim will not be a problem. You can contact the Dockmaster, Captain David Peden at 904-284-4667 ext. 702 for more information. We stayed there for almost a year on our boat waiting to close on the sale and met lots of Canadians who kept their boats (mostly sail) there in the summer.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #8
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One thing you may check is personel days , where we assume it's 183 thats just the 1st year then a % is retired and some days are carried forward year after year reducing your "actual" in the U.S. I kept a spreadsheet for years when I lived in Bermuda and spent time in the U.S. Overstayed my 90 days by mistake one year, skiing and got a $800 fine at immigration one time to before they would let met enter the U.S. again. Might add my wife's American. Seek the advice of a proffesional.....
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:30 AM   #9
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Green Cove Springs, Large dry storage facility

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Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Normand - you might want to contact Gibson Dry Docks in San Mateo (south of Palatka). Also, Acosta Marine in Welaka.

Both are in rather rural areas and about 50-60 miles south of Jacksonville and 30 miles from the coast.

Further north at Green Cove Springs, there is a large dry storage facility but I am unaware of the name. Activecaptain should be your friend in this search.

We have not used any of these facilities so can't tell you more about them.
Hello Donsan! Could it be this place?
https://activecaptain.com/quickLists...L&i=4127786651

This is where my insurance broker suggested but after ready the latest comments, I have reservations. At the same time, Gibson Dry Docks in San Mateo is a good option. Thank you for your help! kindest regards! Normand
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:43 AM   #10
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Green Cove Springs Marina in Green Cove Springs on the St Johns river has a super large facility and storage area plus they are really nice people.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:31 AM   #11
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Suggestions for a yard in Florida that permits to stay on board for a period of time

Dear Trawler Forum members.

I am planning our return from the Bahamas to Port St-Lucie or Fort Pierce.

I need to have our vessel hauled-out for insurance survey and storage with straps for hurricane season.

I would like to have a shipyard or Marina that would permit me to stay on board for the period of preparing the boat for seasonal storage until next fall.

Here are my expectations:

Located in Florida;
Location closed to train station (Amtrack) for return to Canada;
Must allow me to stay on board for maintenance, wood varnish and preparation for storage and next season haul-out;
Fair competitive pricing;
Appropriate yard security in appropriate neighborhood.

Your suggestions and recommendations are welcome!

Thank you for your help!

Kindest regards!
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