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Old 01-12-2017, 02:27 PM   #1
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NDZ in Puget Sound?

This is something that's been in the works for some time now and I went about trying to get some current info. I asked via email someone at state level Eco. According to the reply the EPA has given initial approval for the state to make PS a No Discharge Zone due in part to the amount of pump out facilities around now. A comment period came and went and then was extended. At this time its basically in limbo while the state and EPA figure out the best way to go, but I was told there is no timeline for final approval and was also told they had no idea the eventual outcome. Now my opinion is, that its all over but the shouting. PS will become an NDZ in the near future. Towards that end I am not going to install any treatment systems in my boat only to find out 6 months from now that I cannot use them for any discharge without going out to Cape Flattery! So a new holding tank is in the works now as my old one is toast, and I will be legal either way.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:04 PM   #2
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Really doesn't matter how much treatment or anything else one has, a good holding tank is a necessity. At some point one will run into a NDZ.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:24 PM   #3
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This is something that's been in the works for some time now and I went about trying to get some current info. I asked via email someone at state level Eco. According to the reply the EPA has given initial approval for the state to make PS a No Discharge Zone due in part to the amount of pump out facilities around now. A comment period came and went and then was extended. At this time its basically in limbo while the state and EPA figure out the best way to go, but I was told there is no timeline for final approval and was also told they had no idea the eventual outcome. Now my opinion is, that its all over but the shouting. PS will become an NDZ in the near future. Towards that end I am not going to install any treatment systems in my boat only to find out 6 months from now that I cannot use them for any discharge without going out to Cape Flattery! So a new holding tank is in the works now as my old one is toast, and I will be legal either way.
I agree with you. I had been considering a treatment system in the past but I certainly wouldn't now. This is really unfortunate IMO.

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Really doesn't matter how much treatment or anything else one has, a good holding tank is a necessity. At some point one will run into a NDZ.
Not exactly. There are almost no NDZs up here. For those few, a small holding tank such as in the Raritan Hold n Treat would be perfectly adequate. Unfortunately, the WA Dept of Ecology will likely make all Washington inland waters an NDZ. It will not improve water quality in any meaningful way as the number of boats with treatment systems is so small. It actually could be worse for water quality since it will keep boaters from installing treatment systems so they will continue to rely on pump-out locations exclusively. The only problem is when those pump-outs are too far away, inoperable, or the boater is simply too lazy. Then they will discharge raw waste illegally.

The second loser is BC. Without the specter of an NDZ, boaters like Puget and I may have opted to put in treatment systems. When we go to BC we would be discharging treated waste instead of discharging untreated waste.

I am not adverse to sound environmental regulations. However, this suggestion is not based on science and reason but simply a PR move on the part of WA Dept of Ecology.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:32 PM   #4
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I could be completely off base on my prediction but either way I still need a new holding tank. And I agree this is just typical feel good baloney for the most part, and as long as Victoria BC continues to pump millions of gals of raw sewage into the Straits every day, what difference as HRC might say, does it make?
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:57 PM   #5
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Really doesn't matter how much treatment or anything else one has, a good holding tank is a necessity. At some point one will run into a NDZ.


Not exactly. There are almost no NDZs up here. For those few, a small holding tank such as in the Raritan Hold n Treat would be perfectly adequate. Unfortunately, the WA Dept of Ecology will likely make all Washington inland waters an NDZ.
.
I think you just made my point. Almost no NDZ's still means there are some and your illustration indicates there will be more. Now, some places may monitor more carefully than others, but in many NDZ's if you don't have a holding tank, you better have everything you do have disabled. We know which way things are trending, for right or wrong being irrelevant and once you leave your normal boating area, then it gets more challenging.

The states with bans on all waters are an odd combination: Massachusetts, Michigan, New Mexico, and Vermont.

Here's a link to the current list:

https://www.epa.gov/vessels-marinas-...-ndzs-state#ma
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:38 PM   #6
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I think you just made my point.
Yeah, I guess I did. However, despite the ranting, I was trying to comment on the "good holding tank" part of your original post. I consider a "good" holding tank to be at least 40 gallons and be well vented.

In our area at this moment, a Raritan Hold n Treat with its incorporated 15 gal holding tank would be perfectly adequate unless you decided to camp out for a long period in one of the few very small NDZs that do exist. A 15 gal tank is pretty puny but would be just fine. That Hold n Treat system is also something that could be shoehorned into most boats with marine heads.

As you know, there is a lot of water from Olympia to Alaska where such a system would work great. I seriously doubt that I will ever venture out of this area and there are very few boaters up here that do.

Your point though is well taken, particularly for those whose cruising grounds cross a lot of jurisdictions.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:40 PM   #7
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Since Canada is pumping raw sewage from its cities into upper Puget Sound, having NDZ in lower PS seems kinda silly.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:14 PM   #8
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It does indeed. Not sure if its more than Vic but Vic for sure, and its lots.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:26 PM   #9
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There are a lot of silly laws on the books. Sometimes we just have to live with them.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:35 PM   #10
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Other TF threads on this subject:


More info NDZ Puget Sound


Puget Sound NDZ time frame?
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:40 PM   #11
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It's probably going to be more than sewage. All grey water in time. That's what happened in other places.
Waters are all of San Juans to Dungeness Inlet lighthouse, Admiralty Inlet and waters inland.
I don't see why USCG approved treatment systems are being made illegal.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:41 PM   #12
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There are a lot of silly laws on the books. Sometimes we just have to live with them.
Or not...
when victoria cares.. so will I
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:43 PM   #13
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Or not...
when victoria cares.. so will I
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:31 PM   #14
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Or not...
when victoria cares.. so will I
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How much will the ticket have to be to make you care?
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:37 PM   #15
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Recreational Boats have little to no impact on PS. Control the discharge of all cities around PS, then come to us.......Canada is doing right and as of today has no impact...
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:58 PM   #16
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How much will the ticket have to be to make you care?
A lot more than my monthly moorage bill.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:01 AM   #17
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Keep in mind that the only boaters affected are those that either have, or contemplated, a marine treatment system. Those if us without treatment systems will not be affected.
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Old 01-13-2017, 02:03 AM   #18
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Keep in mind that the only boaters affected are those that either have, or contemplated, a marine treatment system. Those if us without treatment systems will not be affected.
Nor Canadians. Just pump it overboard and sent down to Seattle and PS.....Just say'n
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:41 AM   #19
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Not exactly Puget Sound, but last Sunday a power outage caused raw sewage to be pumped into Lake Washington for 20 minutes. I wonder how many holding tanks that equals?
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:50 AM   #20
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Not exactly Puget Sound, but last Sunday a power outage caused raw sewage to be pumped into Lake Washington for 20 minutes. I wonder how many holding tanks that equals?
Not only power outages but anytime we have some major rain events, there are raw sewage overspills into Puget Sound from the large municipal systems. Not to mention all the agricultural land that borders the rivers that feed the sound sending nutrients and manure into the Sound or all the failing septic systems that line Puget Sound.

Again, I have no problem with the prohibition of dumping raw sewage overboard, but it is silly to prohibit the discharge of treated boat waste.
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