Marinas ...Boat sizes

[gfr51]

Good Day all,
I am confused.
We have been looking for a single engine trawler and are trying to figure
all of the potential costs.
We just returned home from south Carolina where we looked at a 35ft sundeck trawler. it says 35 right on it but when you measure it comes up to 42 feet long with the bow pulpit and swim platform.
He strongly stated that in 6,000 miles he had never been charged for over 35 feet at any marina.
Question?
I know he is trying to sell a boat but everything I have read a lot of marina's
charge a premium over 40 ft. Do marina's charge for LOA or waterline length?
as far as Marina's 35ft sounds a whole lot better than 42 feet plus for the pocketbook.
Is there any sort of a standard on boat lengths and marina fees for them? That is probably a dumb question.
Thanks in advance for your knowledgeable advice.
Gary

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. gf. There are NO dumb questions (mostly). It is MY understanding that if the model of boat you have is 35' that's the size you get charged for. Now, perhaps, if one was staying longer term at a marina or on a face dock someone may get out a measuring tape but I've never experienced it...yet.

 

[Bkay]

I agree with RT somewhat. If your boat is called "Majestic 35" and you tell the dockmaster that you are 35', then frequently that's what you'll be charged.

If you pull into a 36' slip and stick out into the fairway - you are more likely to be charged more. And if you ask the dockmaster, he will likely say "we charge on LOA - if you can retract something, you won't get charged for that length. But if it's fixed, you will."

Also, some places will charge on the slip length and they won't be even 5' increments. So they may say "you won't fit in our 34' slip, so I've got a 37' and 42' available". I have not experienced that a lot except for busy times when the dock fills up.

How's that for failing to answer your question? Although I've never seen anyone charged on waterline length - it's usually LOA but sometimes you can get away with LOD.

 

[Russell Clifton]

Seems like every marina in the Northwest will ask you for the overall length of the boat. Last winter in Anacortes they actually walked all the docks with a tape measure and checked the actual length of all the boats.

 

[Commander Nomad]

We are 60+' LOA. But our model number is 55'. So to every marina we visit we are 55'. I've never had a marina break out a tape measure or dispute the length- if that happens we will leave immediately.

I view it as we have 55' of living space. I'm not paying more for bow pulpit and swim platform. Especially when I see a 45' cat with triple the living space come in and pay less than us.

 

[Woodland Hills]

We have a 63’ lwl, but we never pay on lwl at the marina. It is always on loa: 70’. You tell them you have a 63’ Hatteras and they ask you how long it is.

 

[psneeld]

I say my model size which is a half foot longer than LOD, and I would say out of a 100 East Coast marinas, all but maybe 5 accepted my word on that length.

 

[JohnEasley]

We've always been charged for LOA, whether at our home port, a transient slip, or on a wall somewhere.

 

[Mrwesson]

Only time i've experienced this is on my smaller center consoles being dry rack stored.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Honest people will divulge what’s asked of them.
Any other response is cheating.
I have a 30’ boat in a 30’ slip.
I hate it when overhangs are not observed by the marina’s. If boaters are gleeful for “getting away w something” that’s between them and the marina. But when I need to watch my step because of all the bow pulpits over the walkway it makes me a bit mad. And what’s worse is the boats swim platforms and dinghies sticking out (sometimes 3-4’) into a narrow fairway I’m .. very unhappy.

In our marina they police the walkways quite well but totally (it seems) ignore the fairways. I consider the fairway paid for by the tenant and no one individual has any right to it. And I have no idea if they charge the guys for their overhang into the fairway.

But it’s the marina’s call. And I can see why they welcome overhanging into the fairway ... if they do what they say they do. That is charge overhanging boats for the space. Their bottom line goes up. But they shouldn’t do that because it’s already paid for by the other tenants. It’s not honest business. It’s criminal ... stealing.

And then there’s outboards kicked up 5’ out into the fairway ......

 

[Bkay]

This is not a totally unrelated comment, but a local waterman made this observation - Every boat has 3 lengths: the one you tell fisheries and tax assessors, the one you tell the railway, and the one you tell girls at the bar.

Well, in hindsight, maybe it is totally unrelated. Sorry.

 

[Commander Nomad]

Honest people will divulge what’s asked of them.
Any other response is cheating.
I have a 30’ boat in a 30’ slip.
I hate it when overhangs are not observed by the marina’s. If boaters are gleeful for “getting away w something” that’s between them and the marina. But when I need to watch my step because of all the bow pulpits over the walkway it makes me a bit mad. And what’s worse is the boats swim platforms and dinghies sticking out (sometimes 3-4’) into a narrow fairway I’m .. very unhappy.

In our marina they police the walkways quite well but totally (it seems) ignore the fairways. I consider the fairway paid for by the tenant and no one individual has any right to it. And I have no idea if they charge the guys for their overhang into the fairway.

But it’s the marina’s call. And I can see why they welcome overhanging into the fairway ... if they do what they say they do. That is charge overhanging boats for the space. Their bottom line goes up. But they shouldn’t do that because it’s already paid for by the other tenants. It’s not honest business. It’s criminal ... stealing.

And then there’s outboards kicked up 5’ out into the fairway ......

That's a great moral high ground when you have no overhangs. For the rest of us, when LOA is significantly more than usable space, that concept rubs raw.

If random persons' dinghy hangs off 5' over their stern, no I don't think you should pay for that. Your usable space, the living space that concerns number if persons on board, power requirements, etc, is far more important than LOA.

For an old school CCA rules sailboat, where the 45' LOA is 10' more than the usable LWL living space, should they pay more than a 42' Sea Ray Condo boat? I don't think so.
,

 

[Larry M]

In California we were measured a couple of times. On the Washington Coast, they went by documented length, in Florida it’s a mixed bag but more often than not it’s by the slip length and wants available.

 

[DDW]

It depends on the marina. I've been charged for stated LOD (Length On Deck) sometimes, and extreme overall length (LOA) sometimes. For a transient berth for the night, more likely the former, for an extended monthly stay more likely the latter. If they didn't measure and charge for actual length, then everyone would add some graphics to the side of their boat saying "Mini 19 Trawler" or something like that. "Hey it's 19' - just look at the label!" The Coast Guard has stepped up a bit in this regard and insisted that manufacturers include the permanently attached swim platforms in stated length. That's why my boat (AT34) is now called an AT365.

The AT34 is nominally 34' on deck. Actually 36.5' with the swim platform permanently bonded onto every one they've sold. Add another foot for the anchor and sprit. And at least 2.5 more for the dinghy hanging off the back. Now I'm 40'. In a 34' slip I'll be hanging into the fairway 6 feet.

Some marina's will charge for the larger of the boat length of slip length. Some will allow a few feet longer than the slip, some none. Yes, Cap Sante in Anacortes will measure your boat and charge you for the extreme length, allowing zero hanging out into the fairway. More lenient a the daily rate.

Most marinas charge by the foot for transient, but some value closer to square footage for permanent slips. A 40' boat doesn't take twice the space of a 20' boat, it takes 4 times the space: it is twice as long and twice as wide.

I've found these comments to be true on both coasts, and in Canada and the Caribbean. The cheapest wharfage I've seen was in Newfoundland, $60 for the year.

 

[guy with a boat]

That's a great moral high ground when you have no overhangs. For the rest of us, when LOA is significantly more than usable space, that concept rubs raw.

If random persons' dinghy hangs off 5' over their stern, no I don't think you should pay for that. Your usable space, the living space that concerns number if persons on board, power requirements, etc, is far more important than LOA.

For an old school CCA rules sailboat, where the 45' LOA is 10' more than the usable LWL living space, should they pay more than a 42' Sea Ray Condo boat? I don't think so.
,

The marina is in the business of renting space. How much living area you have shouldn’t be of concern to them. The relevant dimensions are those which determine how much of their dock you need. Space you occupy can’t be rented to someone else so it is charged to you. It doesn’t much matter if that space is bow pulpit, hanging dinghy, or living area. It still occupies marina space and is chargeable.

 

[Commander Nomad]

Right. Im taking up a 70' slip. By your reasoning I should be charged for 70'.

I guarantee if you come in to a slip that is 10' longer than your LOA and you are charged for the slip length rather than your vessel length you won't be happy.

A 40' boat in a 50' slip will be very upset if they are charged for 50'.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thank you guy,

And why shouldn’t we all be on the great moral high ground.
Everyone else is cheating.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Right. Im taking up a 70' slip. By your reasoning I should be charged for 70'.

I guarantee if you come in to a slip that is 10' longer than your LOA and you are charged for the slip length is your vessel length you won't be happy.

A 40' boat in a 50' slip will be very upset if they are charged for 50'.

In Alaska I had a 50’ slip for some time for my 30’ boat. And I was charged for 50’ but it was so dirt cheap I was very happy. $575 a year.

One should be charged and pay for the length of their boat .. dinghies, swim steps and anchor infrastructure and any slip length over your OAL included.

A 60’ boat in a 70’ slip is using the whole space wether the boat is taking it all up or not. They can’t rent the other 10’.

 

[Woodland Hills]

That's a great moral high ground when you have no overhangs. For the rest of us, when LOA is significantly more than usable space, that concept rubs raw.

If random persons' dinghy hangs off 5' over their stern, no I don't think you should pay for that. Your usable space, the living space that concerns number if persons on board, power requirements, etc, is far more important than LOA.

For an old school CCA rules sailboat, where the 45' LOA is 10' more than the usable LWL living space, should they pay more than a 42' Sea Ray Condo boat? I don't think so.
,

I cannot believe you are being serious! If you have a sailboat that has a lwl of 35’ and a 8’ boomkin and 12’ bowsprit and my marina has 100’ of dock from which to earn a living renting space am I supposed to give away 20’ of income every night because you think anyone else cares about how much living space you have?

As a marina owner you support your family by the linear feet of your dock space that you can rent: if my dock is 100’ long and it is full for the night, I’d better be getting paid for 100’ times the rate per foot. Why should anyone else care to subsidize your purchase of a long boat with no living space by giving you free rent?

Where does this sense of entitlement come from? If you are so envious of boaters who made wiser purchases than you, such as the Sea Ray example you give, you can always trade up to something that won’t make you try to cheat people out of their rightful income. If you wanted a short boat with a lot of room, you should have bought one, not try whine about how your own boat has so little room inside for its oal that you expect others to give you free money in compensation for your own mistake.

 

[Giggitoni]

The length and width of marina slips are usually proportionate. Therefore, don’t make the mistake of getting a slip that is too short because the width might be too narrow. I would rather pay for a 45-foot slip for my 42-foot boat than “thread the needle” every time I dock.

 

[guy with a boat]

Right. Im taking up a 70' slip. By your reasoning I should be charged for 70'.

I guarantee if you come in to a slip that is 10' longer than your LOA and you are charged for the slip length rather than your vessel length you won't be happy.

A 40' boat in a 50' slip will be very upset if they are charged for 50'.

I might not be happy, but the marina doesn’t force me to take the slip. California marinas (for example and in my experience) charge for the greater of slip length or OA boat length. Usually there is a waiting list for the slips so they are happy to move on to the next name on the list if you don’t like their system. Marinas in other areas/states/countries vary in how they calculate, and supply/demand is always a factor in how aggressive they are in charging. Most often I have been charged based upon the 63 nominal size of my boat, but I’ve encountered plenty of both systems in our travels.

I just committed to a 69’ slip (in BC) for my current boat (64’OA) because the marina is where I want to be and I was lucky to get a slip. Yes, they are charging me for 69’ and no, they didn’t make me take it.

 

[OldDan1943]

I have a spare 75ft slip for rent or purchase.
The dock master said, someone with a 35ft boat was interested in renting.
I told them, I am renting out a 75ft slip. If the boat owner wants to put his 35ft boat in it, I have no problem with that but, he will be renting the entire 75ft slip.
Sort of discourages renter.
Of course if they buy the 75ft slip, they can put what ever size boat they want.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Right. Im taking up a 70' slip. By your reasoning I should be charged for 70'.

I guarantee if you come in to a slip that is 10' longer than your LOA and you are charged for the slip length rather than your vessel length you won't be happy.

A 40' boat in a 50' slip will be very upset if they are charged for 50'.

Then you should have no issue vacating the moment someone else is willing to pay for the entire slip, amirite?

 

[Pau Hana]

Right. Im taking up a 70' slip. By your reasoning I should be charged for 70'.

I guarantee if you come in to a slip that is 10' longer than your LOA and you are charged for the slip length rather than your vessel length you won't be happy.

A 40' boat in a 50' slip will be very upset if they are charged for 50'.

Yes- you should be charged for the slip length- period.

Our slip neighbor, a 44' sailboat, was waiting on permanent moorage, and was temporarily in a 62' slip on our dock. The dockmaster told them that they wold be paying the rate for the 62' slip while they occupied it, and they concurred.

When the smaller slip came up, they were given the choice of staying in the 62' slip (at the 62' rate) or moving. They moved.

 

[Group9]

We have never been charged more than the marked 42 length (our last two boats) even on two cruises with an 11 foot dinghy secured behind us sideways. Thank goodness, because now, we have a two foot bow pulpit and a four foot swim platform!

But, I have heard of this happening.

On the other hand, we are now in a 45 foot slip, that has a 45 foot minimum charge, no matter your length. I’m okay with that, as they have shorter, and farther away from the parking lot, 40 foot slips that we could (and used to) be in, if we wanted.

 

[smitty477]

I have a spare 75ft slip for rent or purchase.
The dock master said, someone with a 35ft boat was interested in renting.
I told them, I am renting out a 75ft slip. If the boat owner wants to put his 35ft boat in it, I have no problem with that but, he will be renting the entire 75ft slip.
Sort of discourages renter.
Of course if they buy the 75ft slip, they can put what ever size boat they want.

Curious - can someone rent/buy that slip and they put two boats in there that are less than the 75' total?

 

[Lollygag1]

Our marina charges based on the size of the slip with no more than 5' extended from the end. The large craft on the end of the slip can stick out farther as there is no one behind them.

On the other hand block island transient will charge you the full length of the boat even if you are tied to another at the same dock. Hence the reason we choose the anchorage.

 

[porman]

Our Mainship 430 is 48 ft overall, counting the anchor pulpit and the swim platform. With our dinghy hanging off the davit it is 52 ft overall. At all the marinas in the PNW (including Canada) we are charged for 52 ft. We have even been measured at a couple marinas. I have no problem paying for 52 ft because that is how much space we are taking up that can't be rented to anyone else. At our home slip, which we own and is 50 ft, we are allowed to hang out into the fairway 2 ft so that our anchor pulpit doesn't hang over the walkway. The fairway is wide and there is no problem with that.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Poorman,
I think that’s the mindset at LaConner Wa.
Looks to me like some person got injured on a walkway and the court costs probably caused marina operators to further protect themselves.
Why would they protect on one end of the slip and not the other? Must feel the other end (fairway) presents less of legal threat.

The 2’ into the fairway sounds like a compromise of some kind. But those big outboards w the SS props sticking out 4-5’ is marina mismanagement IMO. I moved my boat on that count about 5 months ago. In the same marina. Still happy there. Never seen my slipmate. His boat is covered w dust.

 

[rsn48]

Part of the reason I purchased the boat I did was that moorage came with it, even though there is a long waiting list to get in. In many parts of coastal BC, many of the marinas are older, logical since the primary form of transportation in this area has, is, and will continue to be boating. So even if I bought a 40 boat, it would not be moored in an area I want it in.

And the same goes with marinas with over night areas. I can understand the rant of Woodland Hills guy who makes his money from boat footage, but lets even put that argument, however good aside. Here's another scenario. You've reserved a spot, but you get there only to discover there is no room along that 100 foot dock because other owners weren't honest with their length and have taken up more room than anticipated. I'm sure that's okay with you.