Marinas ...Boat sizes

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Part of the solution will be for manufacturers to incorporate a retractable bowsprit/anchor system, and swim platforms that fold up. The engineering would not be that difficult, and a few years of avoiding being bumped up int the next slip size (and cost) would give the owner financial payback.

Extreme length, LOA, is an equitable basis for charging and the marina owner's are entitle to a return on capital/assets employed. It seems some would like to be able to go into a restaurant, only eat half the steak on their plate and then only pay half the bill!
 
Part of the solution will be for manufacturers to incorporate a retractable bowsprit/anchor system, and swim platforms that fold up.
Sealine make a boat(in the broad sense of the word) where the swimstep retracts 3ft,it also retracts fwd a fixed athwart aft seat. Retracting would save $52.50 a month on my marina.
 
I have seen some boats that have a rather large "dance floor" for a swim platform. There is no way to hide that from a dock master. LOL
 
I have seen some boats that have a rather large "dance floor" for a swim platform. There is no way to hide that from a dock master. LOL
Dan, there is if it retracts. Wonder what happens the day the retraction mechanism fails.:)
 
LOA is LOA. Period. Full stop.

My parents owned a small marina on the west coast of Florida for 45 years. I grew up in the marina & worked there. You meet all types in the boating public, just like in the public at large. Family and staff tended to prefer, and make friends with, boaters who were gracious and honest.

In fact, we were all trained to be unhelpful to liars or jerks who wished to take advantage of our hospitality during their stay. For example, they were never offered the use of the marina car. Sometimes, for the particularly discourteous ones, we would "forget" to tell them the lock combination for the bathrooms/showers. For the worst cases, we kept a list of transient boaters and liveaboards who were not welcome to return to our marina.

Presently, there is vinyl lettering on the side of our boat that states "TT35 Great Harbour." (I do not use that description in my signature box for reasons explored in another thread.) When I hail a marina inquiring about transient dockage, I always state that our LOA is 43 feet.

No muss, no fuss. Get off on the right foot with the marina, you will usually discover just how friendly and helpful the staff can be.

Every dockmaster and marina employee knows how long their pier fingers are, and how many feet are between the cleats on the transient docks. They can tell at a glance exactly how long a vessel is, within one foot. So, it is your choice whether you wish to compromise your integrity right off the bat when you utilize marina services.

Cheers,
Mrs. Trombley
 
You are the customer and can always take your business elsewhere.
And this is the bottom line. If you don't like the way they calculate fees, go somewhere else. If you don't want to go somewhere else, then suck it up and pay the fees that you owe.


And don't tell me you can't go somewhere else. It's a boat. You can ALWAYS go somewhere else. You may not WANT to go somewhere else. You may have other issues in your life that tie you to this particular place, but those are YOUR issues, not the marina owner's. You can always go somewhere else if you really want to.
 
I have a 36ft sundeck trawler that measures 44 overall. I’m charged for waterline if 36ft. At all marinas
 
That is my question as well. Honestly! And TF’ers claim that sailors are cheap....

The OP was speaking with a seller of a 35 sundeck trawler in which the owner claimed he had traveled 6000 miles without ever paying for LOA. Fits the profile of a looper.
 
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The OP was speaking with a seller of a 35 sundeck trawler in which the owner claimed he had traveled 6000 miles without ever paying for LOA. Fits the profile of a looper.

May fit some profile, but we did the loop in a Sunseeker Manhattan 65. LOD is 63' and LOA is 69'4". We paid for 69' at every marina we stopped at. That is the documented length of the boat and the physical length of the space required for it.
 
I have a 36ft sundeck trawler that measures 44 overall. I’m charged for waterline if 36ft. At all marinas
Maybe at all marinas that you've BEEN TO. You certainly have not been to all marinas. Here in the Tampa area, I can assure you that a lot of marinas would charge you for your 44 foot overall length.
 
Maybe at all marinas that you've BEEN TO. You certainly have not been to all marinas. Here in the Tampa area, I can assure you that a lot of marinas would charge you for your 44 foot overall length.

Your summary is true for the NE as well.
 
Marinas have always charged or quoted me the greater of the length of the slip or the length of the boat. My old 42' boat was in a 55' slip. I paid for 55'. My new 42' boat is in a 47' slip. I pay for 47'.

The folks that I know who have boats longer than their slips pay for the "overhang" required for their LOA. I've never seen a dockmaster take out a tape measure -- but I've never seen them need to do that. There are two reasons (a) I think most folks are honest, and (b) the dockmaster doesn't need a tape measure to know the length of the slip (if the boat is not LOA longer than the slip), and can easily estimate the overhang by walking the dock, otherwise.

As for dingies, they've been free when they fit in the slip with the boat, because the owner has paid for the longer slip, and when they hang out of the slip, or cause the boat to hang out of the slip, they've gotten charged as overhang and have been subject to the same limitations. I guess I've seen people who are "supposed" to have them lifted up onto their boat have them hanging around behind their boat and not pay for it. They usually get asked to fix it or pay for it, lift them up for a while, get lazy for a while, get called on it again, and repeat.

As for moorings, I don't really know. It is obviously harder to measure or even eyeball. I've never had a permanent mooring, but for transient moorings, I've just given them my LOA over the radio and they've sent me to an appropriate ball. I wouldn't even think of underestimating, or giving them a funny answer such as the model of the boat instead of the actual LOA. When it comes time to maneuver in the mooring field, I don't want to end up having to squeeze in between a row of boats that are too tight for my size or have to back out in wind without enough room. That places myself and others at risk.

As for the efficiency of space aboard -- marinas and moorings aren't charging for the utility or spaciousness of one's boat. They are charging to provide enough space for boats to safely operate and be secured. My last 42' boat had more usable interior space than my current one, at least for the way I use it. That doesn't mean the marina or mooring field should give me a discount -- or that my boat can safely operate or berth without being an obstruction in a smaller space. The amount of usable space as compared to the draft, beam, LOA, and air draft is something that one considers, and trades off when buying a boat. One shouldn't get to cheat the LOA at a marina any more than one gets to cheat the air draft at a bridge.

Whether at a mooring ball or in a slip, LOA is used not only for pricing -- but also to ensure safety -- for the boat and those boats operating around it. One shouldn't cheat this. I don't think.
 
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BandB,

You're at one end of that community. The other end has far more than it's share of "nickle and dimers".
 
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BandB,

You're at one end of that community. The other end has far more than it's share of "nickle and dimers".

BandB does the right thing....in our experience it is not due to his/her 'community' but reflects his/her individual choices.
 
No aversion to telling the truth, but I'm not paying for unusable space. I have 55' of "living space", that includes a cavernous anchor locker forward and 500 gallons of fuel across the transom. So 55' for 4 people is fairly generous as is.

Put me in a 70ft slip where my overhangs don't matter and ask me to pay for 60' of length and I'm not happy. Especially not when the 50' boat next to me has twice as many people aboard and is using more of the amenities while paying less for the same slip.

It's all a matter of perspective.

My perspective is that you know you bought the wrong boat, are stuck with it and are resentful about that. Otherwise, why go on about how little room you have inside vs your oal..... You also sound like you are jealous of those that did a better job of boat shopping and you resent that too. Sad.......

If you have to lie about the length of your boat in order to afford to keep it in a slip, you should think about getting one you can afford instead of trying to cheat Marina owners.
 
I just reread the original post, and let me add this. I haven't often seen a "premium" for slips over 40 feet. Mostly, it is just paying whatever the rate is, per foot.

Where there sometimes turns out to be a premium is that one often gets charged the larger of the boat length and the slip length. So, the best deal one can get on a slip is when one exactly fits into the slip, or fits into the slip with the allowable overhang. In these cases one pays only for the length of one's boat.

In some sense the worst case is when one is just barely too long to use one size of slip -- and there by needs to pay for a bunch of "unneeded" length for the next biggest slip.

As it happens, I, personally, am okay with "paying extra" though. I feel more exposed to risk when I hang out of a slip, and I appreciate having some extra space in my slip if I want to drop a dingy in for a while, or push it farther from the back of the dock to dive under the swim platform, or whatever. So, although, personally, I'd rather be in "exactly" the right size slip, I don't want to "hang out" and don't mind paying for a little extra space.

Sometimes I've seen situations where the per-foot rate does change with the size of the slip -- longer slips cost more per foot. The reason for this is usually that the beam of the slip is also wider and the distance between the rows of slips used to turn the boat into the slip is also greater (to allow for longer boats to more easily turn). So, the per-foot rate isn't higher for the same space. It is higher because one is getting more beam and more room to turn.

As for where the "cut offs" in terms of the price-per-foot going up -- there isn't a standard. It all depends upon the marina. At my current marina, all slips (except trimaran slips) have the same per-foot rate, making the longer ones, in some ways, a better deal, because they also have more beam.

If I remember correctly, and I may not, at my old marina,. the 36' slips were less expensive per foot than the 55' slips. So, a boat up to 39' (3' could overhang) could get in at a cheaper rate than a 40' boat, both because it wouldn't need to pay for extra feet and because it could get a lower per-foot rate. Of course, it also got less beam, less room to turn, less room for a dingy, and closer neighbors.

Having said that, when they had all of their smaller slips full, but a ton of larger slips open, they often times offered people a deal. They let them have the larger slip at the smaller slip's rate, until a smaller slip opened up (at which time they'd have to change slips or pay more).

The upshot is that, since marinas are configured differently and operate in different markets, they have different rules w.r.t. overhang and different pricing structures. It is really hard to say that "beyond X" the price will definitely go up disproportionately, or "below Y" the price will go down disproportionately. Having said that, as a general rule, less length will be cheaper and a dramatically disproportional beam (which is rare) will be more expensive.
 
This is not a totally unrelated comment, but a local waterman made this observation - Every boat has 3 lengths: the one you tell fisheries and tax assessors, the one you tell the railway, and the one you tell girls at the bar.

You left off the length the guy who sold you the boat told you...
 
No aversion to telling the truth, but I'm not paying for unusable space. I have 55' of "living space", that includes a cavernous anchor locker forward and 500 gallons of fuel across the transom. So 55' for 4 people is fairly generous as is.

Put me in a 70ft slip where my overhangs don't matter and ask me to pay for 60' of length and I'm not happy. Especially not when the 50' boat next to me has twice as many people aboard and is using more of the amenities while paying less for the same slip.

It's all a matter of perspective.

It absolutely is NOT a matter of perspective. There is no grey area here. There is right and there is wrong.

If you want to say "I'm looking for a slip for a Chris Craft Commander 55 with a LOA of 60' and the marina charges you for 55' that's on them. If however, you tell the marina that you need a slip for a 55' boat LOA (when you are really 60') that's just being dishonest.

Jim
 
Don't slip

After reading all the post on this thread with all the different opinions and ways marinas charge, and myself being very, very cheap I'm glad that except for a transient slip here and there, we won't need one. I think if we needed a slip, we would not be trawler owners.



Did I mention I'm :censored: Cheap
 
Maybe at all marinas that you've BEEN TO. You certainly have not been to all marinas. Here in the Tampa area, I can assure you that a lot of marinas would charge you for your 44 foot overall length.

Omg, I’ve been doing it wrong? I honestly thought since it is a documented 36ft. Marine trader sundeck, I was accurate. Learn something everyday.
 
BandB does the right thing....in our experience it is not due to his/her 'community' but reflects his/her individual choices.

Nothing complicated. It was a 69'4" boat. Oh, yes, we did see one marina that measured every boat on the transient dock. I don't remember where, but they had measurements along the dock so they just eyed the forward and rear most points.

One person commented and the dockmaster jokingly said, "I should charge you half the space between you and the boat behind and in front of you."
 
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Our first year at our marina we were transient for about 4 weeks. We paid for LOA (30 ft on a 28 ft model) in a 40 ft slip. The next year we leased the same 40 ft slip for the year and paid for the slip, same as the 40 footers around us. Policy is clear. No dockside overhang and up to 3 feet of fairway overhang. A 43 LOA is fine there, but a 44 would have to lease a 50 ft slip.

I'm in the market right now and it's a significant factor in my purchase. I've actually had a conversation with them regarding a boat I was considering because it was 43' 6" . They said they'd let it slide, but I was concerned about the fairway width too. That one didn't pan out anyway so it was a non issue.
 
Omg, I’ve been doing it wrong? I honestly thought since it is a documented 36ft. Marine trader sundeck, I was accurate. Learn something everyday.
No one said you were doing it wrong. No one said anything even remotely like that. All I said is that, a lot of the marinas here in the Tampa area (not all, but a fair number), would not care one little bit what number was in the model name of your boat. They charge based on total length, from the tip of the bowsprit to the end of the swim platform.


No, they don't usually pull out a tape measure, though I have actually heard of that being done in at least one case. Nonetheless, if you say your boat is 36' long, and they put you in a 35' slip, and you are sticking 9' out into the waterway, they are going to move you to a different slip, and charge you more.


It's pretty simple. It's their marina, they get to charge however they want. And you get to go elsewhere if you don't like the way they charge.


Oh, and by the way, the person who said they should be charged based on the living space in their boat... That's just about the most ridiculous rationalization I've ever seen!
 
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My perspective is that you know you bought the wrong boat, are stuck with it and are resentful about that. Otherwise, why go on about how little room you have inside vs your oal..... You also sound like you are jealous of those that did a better job of boat shopping and you resent that too. Sad.......

If you have to lie about the length of your boat in order to afford to keep it in a slip, you should think about getting one you can afford instead of trying to cheat Marina owners.

My perspective is you're virtue signalling. Unfortunately with the anonymity of the internet it's a common occurrence. Troll away Captain, you're not bothering me.

That being said, for me at least, overall cost of dockage is of no concern. Paying extra for what I'm not using is. On a transient lay-along pier where every foot is possible income I certainly understand it. For individual slips it makes no difference to the marina from a cost standpoint. My (accurate) model length is quite acceptable.

Also I've kept long term slips in Jax for several years, and no one there is measuring. So if you're paying extra above 63' that's your own choice.
 
Why the heck are we getting upset for what or how the marine charges. As long as they are honest with the boater, the boater can make up his mind on if they want to dock there or not.

From experience, most marinas charge by the foot, and that's the foot that the manufacturer states, not the "measured" foot including dinghies, and pulpit.

I could argue that the most fair way is to charge for the space in the slip that the boat takes up. If the only slip left in the marina is a 70 ft slip, and you have a 40 ft boat and they want to charge for 70 feet, so be it. But, might not be good for business.

I've never been "measured" and simple tell them that I have a 40ft boat, as indicated by the manufacturer. Never had a problem. I did have a smaller boat where I kept in the high and dry where they did measure it... to be sure it would fit. No problem.

And, I don't see anyone lying here. Some are overthinking this.
 
Just don't tell me I'll fit in a 12-foot-wide berth when my beam is 13+ feet. A lot of berths here are based on sailboat sizes, and the fat Coot is relatively wide for a 36-foot-long boat. A side berth will do well, thank you.
 
From experience, most marinas charge by the foot, and that's the foot that the manufacturer states, not the "measured" foot including dinghies, and pulpit.

...simple tell them that I have a 40ft boat, as indicated by the manufacturer.

And, I don't see anyone lying here. Some are overthinking this.

I looked up three of the marinas in St Pete (including the municipal) that have on-line reservation forms. All three specifically ask for length overall.
 
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I looked up three of the marinas in St Pete (including the municipal) that have on-line reservation forms. All three specifically ask for length overall.

And not a one measures unless you drastically overstate your boat. Speaking from experience. You can't sneak "your" 45 footer in as a 25 footer. And I'd think it wrong of "you" to try. But if you say it's 45 and it's in the ballpark of 45, then you will be charged for 45.
 
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Whether they measure is not the point. They clearly expect to be paid for LOA and trust that "you" will be honest and pay what is expected of "you". You clearly believe it's just fine to cheat a little, but so much that you might get caught.
 

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