Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:12 PM   #21
Veteran Member
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 64
So from your description, the only benefit to the marina of being an A/I is they get notified if I reduce or cancel my insurance? Seems there are better ways to go about this than adding the marina to your policy...
__________________
Advertisement

Patemey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2015, 11:26 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
BryanF's Avatar


 
City: Astoria
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florence A
Vessel Model: 47' Sutton
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 173
I suspect that due to all the privacy laws now days that if they are not on the policy there is no way the insurance company can notify them. The marina would have to ask for proof of insurance on a regular basis. I guess if there where not people who provide proof of insurance to get in and then cancel to save money there would be no requirement. But, having been someplace that requires car insurance to get a tag on your car and then being involved with a driver who had current tags on his car but no insurance because it had been cancelled I totally understand the point of view of the marina operators. Those people are out there.
__________________

BryanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2015, 11:52 PM   #23
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patemey View Post
So from your description, the only benefit to the marina of being an A/I is they get notified if I reduce or cancel my insurance? Seems there are better ways to go about this than adding the marina to your policy...
Agreed, sir- were all folks upfront and ethical, this would not be a problem.

The reason that more marinas are requiring the A/I endorsement is that too many time, a marina tenant would obtain insurance, show the proof to the marina, then promptly cancel the policy. When a claim occurred, the marina would be left as the potential target because of their lack of enforcement of their requirement.

Any party that is an A/I on your policy cannot change, cancel, or even discuss any specifics of the policy- that is the privy of the named insured (usually the owner). It's really no different than you having the requirement by an auto lender to carry insurance on a financed car. The lienholder can ask if coverage is in force, but cannot make any changes to the policy.

Also, as the marina has no vested fiscal interest in the vessel, they are not privy to any partial or total loss payments.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 12:12 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Starside's Avatar
 
City: Washington, DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starside
Vessel Model: 1930 Elco Marinette
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Veering aside for a minute... that seems pretty pricy compared to marinas up where we are. Certainly compared to our marina. Shorter drive for you, too, assuming you're coming east on US-50.

Not as in the way of Galesville amenites (two restaurants) extra nearby, but not too bad. And in our case, it makes Galesville an luncheon or dinner destination... by boat.

Anyway, you might want to do some shopping around once you've got your conversion squared away.


And now, back to your regularly scheduled conversation...

-Chris

Yeah the problem is the covered slip. They are all 60' & even though my boat's half that size, I'm still paying for the bigger slip.

I do want to find another marina, though but am at Galesville through the year.

Does your marina have covered slips?
Starside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 12:43 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Starside's Avatar
 
City: Washington, DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starside
Vessel Model: 1930 Elco Marinette
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 172
Proof of insurance isn't the issue. We all have insurance & show the Marina the term that it's good for. That's easy for them to track. When it expires, they just ask for proof of renewal.

For me, I just don't get why A/I is necessary. I already have liability insurance to $500k. That covers other boats, the Marina, etc.

Why is the Marina asking for A/I if our insurance already covers it? That's what I don't get & why I'm leery.

Anyway, I hear what everyone is saying - that it's standard practice & I should just go with it. I will ask my insurance company, though & will ask for an explanation of how it benefits the Marina. If there's no benefit, then why do they do it? There has to be a reason, & I suspect it lowers their insurance costs somehow...And that's what makes me question it bc if it's lowering the marina's costs, then there must be some hidden liability that we are being asked to cover, right?

Anyway, that's just my legal brain going off. I just like to know all the dirty details in practice before I sign anything. :-)
Starside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 12:50 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Starside's Avatar
 
City: Washington, DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starside
Vessel Model: 1930 Elco Marinette
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patemey View Post
So from your description, the only benefit to the marina of being an A/I is they get notified if I reduce or cancel my insurance? Seems there are better ways to go about this than adding the marina to your policy...

I agree with you here. I don't think that's the reason why they do it.

My Proof of Insurance includes the Term of 1 year & I pay upfront, so if proof of insurance is their reason, then they have no reason to ask it of me as I'm paid in full until 2016.
Starside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:00 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
BryanF's Avatar


 
City: Astoria
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florence A
Vessel Model: 47' Sutton
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starside View Post
I agree with you here. I don't think that's the reason why they do it.

My Proof of Insurance includes the Term of 1 year & I pay upfront, so if proof of insurance is their reason, then they have no reason to ask it of me as I'm paid in full until 2016.
While you are paid in full you could cancel and get some money back.
The marina would have no way of knowing that the policy was cancelled.

How happy would you be if someone else did that. Then ran into your boat and sank it. Who would you go to for $$ when the owner had no assets and no insurance? My guess is you would sue the marina for allowing a boater into your marina with no insurance. And I suspect that most of us would not accept "But they showed a piece of paper that said they had insurance " as a reason for the marina to not make good on our claim. So...
BryanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:10 AM   #28
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
In theory, you are correct. In actual practice, not so much.

In an average sized marina, there may be anywhere between 10% and 50% (or more) absentee owners (more than 300 miles form the marina). Take that amount, factor in the fact that an overwhelming majority of boat owners are weekend warriors and never engage the marina staff, and the challenge increases. The A/I has the insurance company automatically sending proof to the marina.

There are no hidden agendas- there is no savings that the marina gets for requiring its tenants to add them as an A/I. Even it there was, it wouldn't be of concern to you, so no need to worry about it. Stop looking to tilt at windmills you think are dragons......

Why does your legal practice carry Professional Liability Insurance and E & O insurance? Because your business practices demand the coverage in the event that you create a liability event thru slander, libel, or the perception for the client that his legal advisors did not act in his best behalf. In a like manner, the marina carries insurance for its business practices. Unlike your legal practice, the marina has additional exposures from its moorage clients, and demands that said clients carry insurance AND provide proof of same. The proof for some marinas can be a photocopy or a certificate fro the agent. Other marinas require the Additional Insured endorsement.

If you're so paranoid about this, you may want to rethink boating as a past time. The other legal ramifications will twist your head sideways... Admiralty Law, Jones Act, the OPA of 1990, and so on.......
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:23 AM   #29
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanF View Post
While you are paid in full you could cancel and get some money back.
The marina would have no way of knowing that the policy was cancelled.

How happy would you be if someone else did that. Then ran into your boat and sank it. Who would you go to for $$ when the owner had no assets and no insurance? My guess is you would sue the marina for allowing a boater into your marina with no insurance. And I suspect that most of us would not accept "But they showed a piece of paper that said they had insurance " as a reason for the marina to not make good on our claim. So...
Exactly. I can have a policy cancelled in 5 minutes- the insured will have unearned premium in hand within a week or 2. Only the named insured would be notified unless the marina is listed as an A/I.

In your example above, the marina might be found not liable if they have that paperwork supplied by the client showing proof of coverage.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:24 AM   #30
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,561
Here home lenders go on the Policy,true they have an insurable interest, but they get notified if the policy lapses, premium unpaid, etc, and can even renew the policy(and charge the borrower the cost).
Making the Marina party might enable them to lodge a claim for damage the boat owner did, if he refuses to lodge a claim. If your insurer does not mind, why would you? If it lowers the Marina insurance cost, that might mean lower slip rent for you.
Change of subject,I read above policies carry $500K public liability. Is that a mistype for $5M? Seems way too low. 10M is more like it. Say your boat catches fire, your fault, sets fire to parts of the marina and 10 boats...it adds up.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:32 AM   #31
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Bruce, believe it or not, $1M of liability coverage on a marine contract is considered high in the States. When I'm consulting with a client and recommend a higher liability limit, I get plenty of static about pricing and how expensive it is...
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:44 AM   #32
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana View Post
Bruce, believe it or not, $1M of liability coverage on a marine contract is considered high in the States...
Amazing, checked my standard Club Marine (Allianz)policy, $10M is standard.
Recently my Club renewed cover, 5M PL cover was standard, raising that to 10M cost about plus 50%.
Visualize a worst case scenario, you negligently make someone paraplegic or quad. What`s the $ liability? Will 10M be enough? Doubt it.And the US is more litigious than Australia.
Except if The Merchant Shipping Act 1894 applies, now there`s a total minefield.
Apology for the drift, but it is interesting and affects all boaters.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 01:57 AM   #33
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana View Post
Bruce, believe it or not, $1M of liability coverage on a marine contract is considered high in the States. When I'm consulting with a client and recommend a higher liability limit, I get plenty of static about pricing and how expensive it is...
And above a million is almost always better covered under an umbrella policy as the insurers aren't use to going higher on regular policies. Plus if you need more on your boat, you probably do on your house and car and in general.

In Florida you are only required to have $10,000 property liability on your auto policy. The average nationwide is probably around $25,000 personal injury per person, maximum of $50,000 per accident and $20,000 property liability. So not only do we have uninsured motorists, but far more underinsured. Now you get a boater with $100,000 and it's just as underinsured when they're out on the water with $20 million - $100 million boats or at a marina. Of course my grandfather once drove his car across a home's front porch and into the living room of a house. The only reason there wasn't a death was the homeowners were in the kitchen in the back.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 09:43 AM   #34
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starside View Post
Yeah the problem is the covered slip. They are all 60' & even though my boat's half that size, I'm still paying for the bigger slip.

I do want to find another marina, though but am at Galesville through the year.

Does your marina have covered slips?

Ah, I forgot about that part.

No, ours does not. Selby Bay Marina does; not sure about length or availability. There's also one on the Rhode River, I think (accessed from Central Avenue, I think), but can't remember which name. Might be a shed up at the Rt2 bridge/South River junction, too.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 09:50 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
Starside's Avatar
 
City: Washington, DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Starside
Vessel Model: 1930 Elco Marinette
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 172
Thanks, Chris. Good to have options. I'm seriously considering purchasing a covered slip. There aren't a lot around & they rent for premium prices. It may be a smart investment since I have an antique & will always need to be covered. I hear Piney Narrows sells them...will probably buy one next year if I can save the $. Restoration costs are killing me right now...
__________________

Starside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012