Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2012, 10:03 PM   #1
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Land Storage

Hi there,

The boat we're thinking of buying may have to be stored on land; the marina is full, the waiting list is huge, and the berth doesn't get grandfathered with the boat.

The marina has a hydraulic trailer to move larger boats. The one we are looking at is 30' with an 11' beam, and is 30 years old.

Since learning the berth wasn't coming with the vessel, it feels like a deal breaker. The costs are higher, working around somebody else's schedule would be annoying, and they can't get a boat that big out of the water in snowy/icy conditions.

We're also worried that being stored on the hard is, well, hard on a boat.

What do you think?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 10:19 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
I could be mistaken but it sounded as though you where considering this boat with the berth in mind. Without the berth the boat is now essentially like any other trailer boat just without the trailer. Every situation is unique, we are considering a marina that does grandfather berths with the boats. The primary reason we will look at boats in that marina is for the berth, the boat will become a secondary consideration.

In our situation, anything less is a deal breaker. If the boat must be stored on the hard and launched as needed, the boat would then become our primary focus. The rest is storage options, in the meantime join the waiting list.

My 2 cents
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 10:36 PM   #3
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Yes, we did originally think the berth came with the boat.

Is it a glass half full, glass half empty kind of thing when comparing a marina berth to land storage? There are multiple reasons for each...I was just wondering if people thought land storage had too many negatives?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 10:59 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Formosa's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Levada
Vessel Model: 1983 Formosa 42 Europa
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 55
Could there be a third choice? A permanent mooring. Not sure of your situation on the North coast but many boats in the Gulf islands, including mine, spend their lives moored in bays and coves. Could/would you acquire or install a mooring? Certainly not as convenient as being at a dock but not bad if you can arrange dinghy storage/access. And certainly a lot less expensive in the long run (or until you move up the waiting list at the marina).
__________________
Joe
Formosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:02 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Besides the obvious lack of convenience I don't see many. It depends upon the way the marina handles things on their end. There are some that will have the boat in the water waiting when you arrive and haul it after your departure. Then the possibility of damage from handling can be worrisome as well. Bottom maintenance should be less.

What are the insurance requirements for both you and the marina? What is the policy in the event the ramp ices up and they can not haul you out? How many launches per month come with the storage or are they billed per launch? Is an annual launch pass available?

I hope to be dry berthed in our marina of choice before much longer. But my boat was designed for and is already on its own trailer. The Devil is in the details IMO.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:35 PM   #6
Guru
 
Ocean Breeze NL's Avatar
 
City: Springdale, NL
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Ocean Breeze
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 85OA38
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 530
Just an idea that may work for you...

Some of the guys around our area will modify on old lowboy trailer picked up at an auction then place a cradle on it that fits the hull or strip it down and add a set of wheels up front as seen in this picture. They will then pull it up using a loader or back-hoe and then store it on some property near the ocean.

The advantage around home is there is lots of ocean front and open land next to it whereas in other areas ( maybe yours Murray) this can't not even be possible.

Stored on the hard isn't hard on the boat, this happens for most people around our place each winter.

Elwin
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	NS Paula.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	167.4 KB
ID:	13318  
__________________
Elwin
Ocean Breeze NL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:44 PM   #7
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
The main thing with land storage is how much do you anticipate using your boat? For people who don't use them very often--- maybe a few weeks a year on vacations--- land storage can make sense. It's generally cheaper than a slip in a marina.

But if like us one uses a boat year round, the ins and outs all the time are time-consuming, a bit risky perhaps, and possibly expensive if the yard charges for every haulout which they generally do unless their deal with you includes unlimited launches and haulouts. Although you'll still be paying for them because the yard has to pay for the lift or railway operator, wear and tear on the equipment, and so on. The "unlimited" deals simply roll the launch and haul costs into your contract.

If your area is subject to strong winds storing on land brings some risks although these can be mitigated if the yard blocks and chains your boat properly. But anytime you pick up something that weighs 30,000 pounds (in the case of our boat), there is an element of risk.

Storage on the hard won't hurt the boat, particularly a fiberglass or metal one. People in the northeast and upper midwest do it every winter. Sitting for a long time on stands and blocks could conceivably affect the shaft alignment so you might want to have that checked when the boat goes back in the water.

Down in this area I don't know of any marina in which the slip goes with the boat unless the seller retains part ownership. The only exceptions might be boathouse-kept boats since the boathouse is usually owned by the boat owner. I do see boathouse boats being sold in our marina occasionally with the boathouse also being available to buy (average price for private boathouse in our marina seems to be about $50,000).

But it really comes down to how you anticipate using your boat. Dry storage wouldn't work for us at all. We use the boat all year, going up and staying on it like a weekend getaway cabin even if we don't actually take it out. But we know people, particularly snowbirds, who put their boat on the hard during the winter when they're gone. But since leaving a boat in the water all year here is not a problem in terms of freezing, snow, etc., dry storage is actually fairly rare, at least for larger power and sailboats.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:48 PM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Elwin's trailer example is the norm in places like Prince Edward Island where most if not all of the commercial lobsterboats are pulled out and stored on the owner's property, even if this property is some distance from the water. This goes for the older wooden lobsterboats as well as the glass boats.

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-1356521907.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	69.3 KB
ID:	13319
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:53 PM   #9
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Thanks for the mooring buoy and modified trailer ideas. Unfortunately, in Kitimat, there's no opportunity to use them.

The local aluminum smelter closed the boat launch on their land, didn't renew the lease for Moon Bay Marina (so it is now closed), and won't allow the community access to the water on the rest of the land they own...which is pretty much everything at the head of the channel. It sucks.

We have a bit of time before the owner of the boat returns from a trip, so we'll have time to get the nitty-gritty details about land storage from the marina.

Our neighbour works at the marina, and tells us they will launch and store boats for you that are in their dry storage yard. The word is that if you use your boat a lot, which means they have to keep hauling you out and putting you back in repeatedly, they'll just leave you in the temporary berth area at no extra cost.

Combine this with sub-leasing a berth from somebody who pulls their boat every winter, and we could have a workable solution.

Life is complicated, yet interesting!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 05:37 AM   #10
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,534
For the out of use time during winter , I would want the boat on land.

During the season the launch/haul on command deal is only limited in loading and taking stuff on off the boat .

If they have a dock you can use to service the boat , no problem.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #11
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
Hi there,

The boat we're thinking of buying may have to be stored on land; the marina is full, the waiting list is huge, and the berth doesn't get grandfathered with the boat.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Not saying it's right. . . But there have been a number of boats in our marina which have kept their slips, by working out a deal with the seller to keep the sellers name on the boat / slip and adding the buyers name as a partner. I have no idea how that would or wouldn't work in B.C. I guess desperate sellers will do about anything to unload their boat.

LB
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:10 PM   #12
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
----------------------------------------------------------------
Not saying it's right. . .
. . . but may be an option.

Just have to make sure whoever is #1 on the list for an available berth isn't the head lawyer in a viscously vindictive law firm!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:28 PM   #13
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Some marinas charge a 30% "partnership" premium. We may too for the right deal. Ya gotta pay to play.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 09:09 PM   #14
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Some marinas charge a 30% "partnership" premium. We may too for the right deal. Ya gotta pay to play.
So...marinas have a limited supply, they know people are going to get "creative" in their deals to retain a berth for a boat, so they figure they might as well skim an extra 30% or so for themselves? Weasels!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM

So...marinas have a limited supply, they know people are going to get "creative" in their deals to retain a berth for a boat, so they figure they might as well skim an extra 30% or so for themselves? Weasels!
It's kinda like Larry said above, "Not saying it's right". Like it or not I have discovered the prevailing attitude throughout the marine industry in general is, "If ya throw enough money at any problem it can be solved". I've also discovered there's at least one hand in every pot.

Make no mistake, my last name is not Gates. I'm a cheap bastard by nature, but some problems can only be solved for a price.

Regardless if you buy the boat or not if you're interested in keeping a boat in that marina in the future. Add your name to the waiting list now. My Marina charges an annual fee to be on the waiting list. As I get near the top I'll get serious about finding a boat to fit the slip.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 05:28 AM   #16
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
My Marina charges an annual fee to be on the waiting list.
Okay, you win, I'll stop complaining now.

Much like many things worth doing in life, there's no sense in tippy-toeing to the edge and peering over. If it's the boat for us, we'll buy it and figure it all out one way or another.

With only one marina in town, (the closest alternative is in Port Simpson about a 2.5 hour drive away) it's not like there's much of a choice anyways.

Thanks for the insight
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 08:12 AM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
So...marinas have a limited supply, they know people are going to get "creative" in their deals to retain a berth for a boat, so they figure they might as well skim an extra 30% or so for themselves? Weasels!

Or could it be that people who have patiently waited to get a slip might become....hmmmm.... pissed at "creative deals" that squash their dreams???? So the marinas place a "penalty tax" on a deal they can't legally challenge????
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 11:20 AM   #18
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Or could it be that people who have patiently waited to get a slip might become....hmmmm.... pissed at "creative deals" that squash their dreams???? So the marinas place a "penalty tax" on a deal they can't legally challenge????
Of all the marinas I've been in on BC's coast, there was only one where I wouldn't put it past them to take the 30% extra with a nod and a wink to the "partners," and make people pay to be on a list as well. A double insult to anybody on that list for sure.

There is only one marina in our town, with only 100 berths, and we are number 85 on the list to get in. If we did go the partner route, we'd think of it as sub-leasing the berth.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 12:39 AM   #19
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,872
If you want a berth get on the waiting list. Sure it could be a long wait but I've seen this before. If you dont get on the list you have NO CHANCE at all.

Many will give up for one reason or another and when they get the call will say no.

You may find that in reality you move up a lot faster than would appear to be the case at first blush.

And be sure to go in and talk to the marina several times a year. If not you may get dropped, deliberately or accidentally. Some marinas view those visits as an indication about how serious you are.

We know several people who were quite happy with dry land storage although they had somewhat smaller vessels, 26-28 feet. They didn't have to worry about sinking or, other boats hitting them. They did have to call ahead though so couldn't just toss off the lines and go. Yet it worked for them. You may also find once at the marina that you get better consideration about a slip if you can deal with the lifts.
__________________

C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012