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Old 12-16-2013, 11:00 AM   #21
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Yes, I have read the whole thread, but even on that point, I was kind of surprised at that too - I'm pretty sure when you let a policy lapse, or far more likely, when insurance companies change terms or coverage or premiums, they don't notify each and every insured on the policy separately. For example, we have three autos, two trailers, two boats, home, and an umbrella, my wife and I are both named insureds, but I'm the primary or lead account holder and I'm the only one notified of anything. But then maybe this portion of the country is very different than the coasts when it comes to insurance and I should just shut up.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #22
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Interesting thread. No proof of insurance required in our municipal marina. In fact no insurance required.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:50 PM   #23
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The legal purpose of the "additional insured" status is really pretty simple. If you read your marina slip contract carefully, you will find that you have indemnified the marina against damage and loss caused by you and your boat. This means you have agreed to pay the marina for any and all damage caused by you and your boat. If damage occurs, you would normally contact your insurance company and the marina is dependent on your doing all you should to get your insurer to pay for your damage. Once named as an "additional insured", the marina now has the status of being insured under your policy but only to the extent of the indemnification in your slip contract. As noted in earlier posts, now the marina can deal directly with the insurer regarding any dmages under its indemnification clause.

You might note on your policy that if you have financed your boat, many lenders require additional insured status. The same can apply to mortgage and auto lenders.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #24
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All boats kept here at Bradford Marine in Fort Lauderdale in our free dockage for sellers program are required to have Bradford listed as additional insured. It is required at most marinas for long term dockage in Florida. I have never heard of an owner having rates increased because of this. Dockage rates would be higher if the marina owners had to pay more for insurance or to collect insurance proceeds.
The easiest explanation for my clients is to say that the insurance companies for the boat owner and the marina or boat yard owner have to work together instead of against each other.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #25
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I understand the concept, but my points are:

1) You would have to trust your marina ownership and management team to always do the right thing. Something I do not trust where we are. Imagine a claim on your policy when there is no loss and you are out of the loop?

2) I will allow them on my policy if they allow me on theirs. Why do I have to give the easy access to make a claim on my policy from damage I cause to them without them allowing me the same courtesy?
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #26
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I must admit to being confused when I first read the marina requirement to be listed as additionally insured. One phone call to my insurance company put my mind at ease. You can theorize what if scenarios until blue in the face but insurance companies claim its common practice, and like Mark said, it didn't add any cost to me.

Moonstruck and I share a common problem of keeping up with insurance certificates. It sure would simplify things if this became common practice in our industry, but lacking the tenant/landlord relationship present in a marina makes it pretty unlikely.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:16 PM   #27
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Interesting thread. No proof of insurance required in our municipal marina. In fact no insurance required.
Our municipal marina requires proof of insurance for permanent slip tenants, but does not for the transients who are allotted over half of the available slips. A bit strange as the majority of dilapidated, poorly maintained boats I've seen on the Great Lakes are a subset of a certain transient community.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:50 PM   #28
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Moonstruck and I share a common problem of keeping up with insurance certificates. It sure would simplify things if this became common practice in our industry, but lacking the tenant/landlord relationship present in a marina makes it pretty unlikely.
Craig, I sit on both sides of the issue. First insurance is an important requirement in my business. We insure our projects, and it depends on which party is required to supply the insurance who is named additionally insured. We also require our subcontractors to supply evidence of coverage.

On the other hand, I sit on the board of directors of an insurance company that our agents as a matter of course provide evidence of coverage and additionally insured statements. There is an insurance term that usually applies in those cases. It is "as interest may appear". At no time would either party be entitled to anymore than "their interest may appear".
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:05 PM   #29
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Our municipal marina requires proof of insurance for permanent slip tenants, but does not for the transients who are allotted over half of the available slips. A bit strange as the majority of dilapidated, poorly maintained boats I've seen on the Great Lakes are a subset of a certain transient community.
I think that is part of the equation here as well. Logically, how can you force the permanent slip holders to have coverage, without having the transients produce coverage.

That, and (western) Canadians, in general, are not as litigious as...ahem...the citizens of a country in close proximity.






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Old 12-16-2013, 05:41 PM   #30
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+1 on Robster's post.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:51 PM   #31
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Heck - it's called spread the risk. As long as all other marina docking boats also have "additionally insured" for the marina then I have no problem with it. If some one else's boat screws things up (your boat included) the insurer of the offending boat is evermore fully tied in if court action becomes needed to settle claims. That said - I do believe the marina's insurance company should need to inform every docking boat's owner if the marina's ins lapses it's own coverage. Way it is now... we would have no clue if our marina's insurance terminated, for any reason.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:38 AM   #32
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Adding the marina as an additional insured means they will be notified if you change or cancel your policy! This is important! The marina is making sure everyone has adequate insurance in force. This protects you and your fellow slip-mates.
Yes there is a case for that position, as there is a equally strong case for Tom's view that the boat owners are entitled to be assured that their marina is properly insured as well, what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander

Perhaps the boat owners insurance companies should be pushing for this on their clients behalf, however don't hold your breath on that one.

A bit fanciful, but let's take an example.For the purposes of the story lets call the character....... Don

'Don invites his old mate, who he has known for years, down to his boat called say....Moonstruck, for dinner and drinks on board.

Now his friend has done well in the world, matter of fact he is Chairman of Exon, he's paid a squillion. Unfortunately, the maintenance man at the marina forgot to replace two rotten planks near Don's boat(this is despite constant nagging from Don).

Well, the chairman is no featherweight and what with that enormous gold Rolex on his wrist he goes straight through the planks, no hope for him at all.The marina life buoy was being used as a dart board in the canteen.

Don being a diligent soul has a proper insurance in place. However like all policies it has an upper limit on personal liability, in this instance say 10 million dollars.

The executors of a late lamented chairman take the matter to the courts who decide that based on his salary and projected lifespan, pain and suffering he was worth say 50 million dollars.

Unfortunately, the marina's insurance had lapsed. (the office secretary in the marina had put the cheque for the insurance premium into the envelope addressed to the local library that was supposed to contain a letter explaining why 'Gone With the Wind' was two weeks overdue.

The insurance company, being diligent, duly forwarded the letter to the library, unfortunately for all concerned, the librarian filed the insurance cheque in the pending tray, which we understand is still there.

In due course the executors sue the marina who in turn file for bankruptcy.They then go after Don, mainly because there is no one else to go after, (known in legal circles as last man standing)and also based on the fact that he knew the marina to be unsafe, he is held by the courts to be partially liability for the chairman's watery demise and an order of 15 million dollars in damages is made against Don.

Don now works as the maintenance man at the marina which is owned by the estate of his late friend the chairman, and part of his responsibilities is to clean the owners boat, an immaculate Sabre 42' called Moonstruck.'

Around Charleston this is known as Don's lament

Disclaimer; the characters in this work are fictional and in no way resemble Don or any floating 42' Sabre.

Happy Christmas to all.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:07 AM   #33
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Disclaimer; the characters in this work are fictional and in no way resemble Don or a certain 42' Sabre.
Absolutely. The real Don with a 42 Sabre is much better looking.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #34
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Too funny! Too true to real life!
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:15 PM   #35
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Good story. The big question would be IF fatcat exec's lawyer would be able to PROVE negligence on Capt. Don's part. Pretty tall order.

Proving he's better looking? I'll take The Fifth on that.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #36
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My strikingly good looks are undisputed since I got my carry permit.

Tom, as you probably know, lawyers go after anybody and everybody. They don't even have to have deep pockets to get sued as long as they have insurance. The cost of litigation is so high that ambulance chasers realize they can get a settlement on most anything.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:05 PM   #37
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Good story. The big question would be IF fatcat exec's lawyer would be able to PROVE negligence on Capt. Don's part. Pretty tall order.
In this regard Don's problem stems from his prior documented knowledge of the faulty planks and his failure to act or warn the chairman of his peril.

" I put it to the court that not only did captain Tom cause the late chairman to visit the marina with the promise of food and drink......and who knows what else(this with a wink to the jury) he did so in the full knowledge that the walk way to his yacht, a rather large and grand affair I might say, was a potential death-trap.

You have heard from Mr Wallenski the SMO (senior maintenance officer) at the marina how he was constantly badgered and bullied by the defendant . Also you heard that the SMO wanted to close off the section of the walk way till repairs could be undertaken.

Captain Tom would have none of it, he was desperate to impress his famous friend regardless of the safety implications. His continual badgering and humiliation of Mr Wallenski, whose grasp of English and legal standing in this country put him in an invidious position.

You will recall the evidence of the owner of an Island Gypsy 36 motor yacht(Europa) on the next berth being continually harassed and bullied by the captain over the state of what's called brightwork and topsides on his boat. Captain Tom even threatened some form of physical violence over an argument about an anchor.

Ladies and gentlemen WHAT type of man would get into an argument over an anchor for heavens sake!Perhaps the type of man with strong pathological narcissistic behaviour traits, a win at all costs and devil take the hindmost personality.

I put it to you ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Captain Tom was quite willing to sacrifice the the safety of the chairman for the reflected glory of being seen as THE man on the marina, and the chairman paid the ultimate price for this raging egomania.

Was indeed there any real friendship at all. You have heard from the Chairman's devoted fifth wife, (such a tragedy for someone so young to lose her soul mate), that he regarded Captain Tom as an embarrassment and a bully, and that he only agreed to meet with the Captain after incessant phone calls and reference to some long forgotten childhood prank, which seemed to way on the chairman's mind.


You may ask what indeed was the true purpose of this insistent invitation.We shall never know.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury the captain's death was as a direct result of some boards on the walkway giving way, what brought him there was an act of culpable negligence and wilful disregard from a so called friend ........

Captain Don has blood on his hands.

Sorry M'lord,I withdraw that last remark."
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:19 PM   #38
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After such overwhelming evidence presented, I must confess. . . . . . . . . . .but wait there's more. The chairman only came because I had a photograph of him in a compromising situation. So, in the end it was his fault altogether.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:29 PM   #39
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Greetings,
If it please the court M'lord.
Am I to understand that the Captain perished as well? "captain's death was as a direct result of some boards on the walkway giving way..." Well, M'lord, just who is on trial here? I call into question the verity of the narrator's description of events and suggest HE is to be implicated in these sordid proceedings...loose boards or not.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:38 PM   #40
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Greetings,
M'lord. If it pleases the court....Further to the question of culpability of the narrator it has come to my attention that there is a possible connection to one Rush Limpbough (in the pay of Faux News-a purveyor of misinformation, innuendo and general falsehoodery) whereby the narrator may share a genetic connection through his aunt's fifth cousin's gardener. It is a known fact M'lord, DNA does not lie. The plot thickens...
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