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Old 03-08-2016, 11:08 AM   #81
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What's the penalty if you anchor anyway?
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:15 AM   #82
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What's the penalty if you anchor anyway?
$50 1st offence
$100 2nd
$250 3rd and subsequent.
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:21 AM   #83
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If you do not pay do they suspend your fishing license?
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:27 AM   #84
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$50 1st offence
$100 2nd
$250 3rd and subsequent.

For most boats in that area, paying the fine is cheaper than staying the night at a marina.

Not likely to be much of a deterrent.
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Old 03-08-2016, 11:49 AM   #85
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"Recreational and commercial fishermen actively engaged in fishing... would be exempted from the rule."

So, as long as you have a line in the water and have someone attending it, you can anchor as long as you want.
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:21 PM   #86
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Fishing it is!
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:32 PM   #87
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A question for the group.

Let's assume we're talking a canal or other area with houses and docks on both sides. Depth a MLW is 9' with 2' tide. This is also a canal that boats must transit to get in and out to homes. What is the minimum distance between the docks on either side that needs to exist to "allow" anchoring of a 50' boat, and of a 100' boat?

I'm not necessarily speaking by law but just common sense and decency.
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Old 03-08-2016, 12:59 PM   #88
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$50 1st offence
$100 2nd
$250 3rd and subsequent.
Hm... I will never boat in that area, but if I did, I think that I would be tempted to just anchor normally with my usual high degree of courtesy.

Somehow, I can't see a LEO coming out to where I am anchored in the evening, night, or early morning to write me a ticket. If they did (and I wasn't a Florida resident) I am not sure that I would be all that inclined to actually pay the fine.

Getting a legislature to pass a law is one thing. Getting overburdened LEOs to actually enforce it is another.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:07 PM   #89
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Greetings,
Mr. BB. In our canal a boat cannot exceed 1/3 the canal's width. So, a 50' boat docked perpendicular to the sea wall on each side with a 50' wide channel. That is the law, as I understand it. The docks are substantially shorter. Common sense and decency? Where?

I suspect if a boater was to anchor parallel to the sea wall, not touching land at all and did not present a hazard to navigation, by law, they probably could. I would love to observe THAT scenario IF I was wearing a bullet proof vest. Be prepared to...


Mr. dh. "...my usual high degree of courtesy." Fair enough but how would you respond to an irate home owner verbally assaulting you for "ruining" their view and and anchoring in "their" water? I think you would be talking to an overburdened LEO in fairly short order.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:16 PM   #90
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Well it would appear the bill has clear the state Senate and is on the Governor's desk for signature. I guess the Florida legislature and its Governor is for sale.....


Florida anchoring restrictions bill goes to governor | Trade Only Today
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:36 PM   #91
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Well it would appear the bill has clear the state Senate and is on the Governor's desk for signature. I guess the Florida legislature and its Governor is for sale.....

So, anytime a law passes you oppose, it means the legislature and Governor were paid? It doesn't cross your mind for one moment that they might have actually thought it was a good law?

I opposed this bill, but I'm not going to make statements as to the character and integrity of those who supported it.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:39 PM   #92
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Hm... I will never boat in that area, but if I did, I think that I would be tempted to just anchor normally with my usual high degree of courtesy.

Somehow, I can't see a LEO coming out to where I am anchored in the evening, night, or early morning to write me a ticket. If they did (and I wasn't a Florida resident) I am not sure that I would be all that inclined to actually pay the fine.

Getting a legislature to pass a law is one thing. Getting overburdened LEOs to actually enforce it is another.
Actually what I suspect an LEO would do would be to advise you of the law and ask you to move 100 yards away into Biscayne Bay and anchor or 100 yards south and do so, but just vacate the area between the islands and by the causeway.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:58 PM   #93
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Mr. dh. "...my usual high degree of courtesy." Fair enough but how would you respond to an irate home owner verbally assaulting you for "ruining" their view and and anchoring in "their" water? I think you would be talking to an overburdened LEO in fairly short order.
Well, I am not so sure.

Say you are a typical city or county LEO. Your wage isn't all that high and you have to deal with "difficult" people all day. You are running from domestic violence calls, burglaries, car prowls etc all day long. How quick do you think you would be to respond to an irate and rude rich ass homeowner who is complaining about their view being spoiled that boat that is anchored for the evening in the waterway in front of their home? Unless they happen to be the Mayor or a member of the City Council, I can easily see more pressing calls getting the priority.

Of course, maybe the LEOs in the South East are different from the ones that I know here.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:00 PM   #94
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Actually what I suspect an LEO would do would be to advise you of the law and ask you to move 100 yards away into Biscayne Bay and anchor or 100 yards south and do so, but just vacate the area between the islands and by the causeway.
Yes, I think you are probably right and I would comply quickly and very politely in that situation.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:06 PM   #95
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Well, I am not so sure.

Say you are a typical city or county LEO. Your wage isn't all that high and you have to deal with "difficult" people all day. You are running from domestic violence calls, burglaries, car prowls etc all day long. How quick do you think you would be to respond to an irate and rude rich ass homeowner who is complaining about their view being spoiled that boat that is anchored for the evening in the waterway in front of their home? Unless they happen to be the Mayor or a member of the City Council, I can easily see more pressing calls getting the priority.

Of course, maybe the LEOs in the South East are different from the ones that I know here.
A very sizable percentage of calls a policeman goes on are nuisance calls, neighbors complaining about neighbors and over very minor situations. Then on top they have shoplifting and disturbance causing.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:18 PM   #96
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It just seems to me that by solving the derelict boat issue it would go a long way to solving a lot of problems for everyone.
It's not just the derelict boats. The worst of the lot are drunken bums with alcohol and/or drug issues. Those who flaunt the laws (anchor lights, registration aka taxes or fees, sanitation, safety like fire extinguishers, etc.) -- those guys are a menace.

They live outside society and are driven by inner demons. Those 2% are the reason shoreside folks get "unreasonable" -- I doggone sure would not want an anchorage full of unmovable boats with bums aboard near me.

Not bringing their refuse ashore or worse, tossing it overboard. Standing on deck to pee in broad daylight. Really!?!?

Turning on a landowner's water and refilling jugs from the tap they pay for, especially when the sneak-ashore's don't shut off the water when the containers are full. And yes, any number of property owners on Sister's Creek in Marathon will attest that was a problem at least in the 1970's and it got really bad in the 80's.

The preponderance of boats has increased exponentially. It's not getting any better.

The Problem as I see it is the laws call for fines. Well, a guy living social security check to SS check isn't going to pay just because there is no consequence for not doing so.

If you don't pay there's an added fee. Well, a guy on the margins of society doesn't have the $183 for a fine for not showing an anchor light. He's not going to have more penalties and interest either.

Besides, he has nothing. What can anyone do to him? Nothing.

The boat is most likely not in his name so he cares not. The bum might have "bought " it, but registering costs money. It won't have been done. Previous owner has no clue the boat is still Officially his.

And if the boat has an anchor light the next time drunk needed a bottle of Vodka that light would be gone. Or there's no battery in the boat to supply power...

Consequences beyond unpaid fines is Part One of the solution.

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Further, set a time limit for anchoring in one spot and enforce it through fines (parking tickets).
This is most reasonable. In BLM lands (Bureau of Land Management, aka the national forests) you may boondock (anchor, on land) for up to 14 days at a time. Then you must move your location at least 25 miles to a new spot.

To me, that seems reasonable.

Two weeks is reasonable for waiting for a hop over to the islands. Waiting for a weather window for a couple of weeks is not unheard of. As for permanently establishing residence right off my house were I to have one, NO.

Move your boat. The question in my mind is how far is "enough" ... a mile might be okay.

Were you to wonder while I believe a mile is sufficient, this is the reason: If a guy on a boat has a job ashore, rowing 1/2 mile each day to and from the boat is not unreasonable. I don't know that I would want to row a mile each way...

Anyway, it's too late now. The law has passed. Enforcement will happen, especially in those areas where the most vocal opponents to anchoring boats were. Such is life.

It's not all about me.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:26 PM   #97
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A question for the group.

Let's assume we're talking a canal or other area with houses and docks on both sides. Depth a MLW is 9' with 2' tide. This is also a canal that boats must transit to get in and out to homes. What is the minimum distance between the docks on either side that needs to exist to "allow" anchoring of a 50' boat, and of a 100' boat?

I'm not necessarily speaking by law but just common sense and decency.

If in 9' of water one uses 45' of rode, then the diameter of the swing of a 50' boat would be about 160'. Allowing for anchor slippage and also allowing other boats to pass I would say the canal needs to be at least 200' wide. Note the canals as part of this bill are about 240' after accounting for docks and docked boats. Now if that was a 100' boat then I'd say the canal would need to be 300'.

An interesting topic brought to mind, partly by RTF's post and the mention of anchoring parallel. That is anchoring bow and stern. It certainly reduces the area the boat requires and frees more passageway. Most crowded anchorages scare me a bit with the closeness with which many boats anchor to each other, forgetting about whether close to shore or not.

I would love to talk to some of the more reasonable homeowners in the areas covered by this law and find out what really happened to precipitate the group pushing so hard for this law. I suspect some members of the anchoring community acted in such a way as to bring it on themselves and that's a shame for all those who anchor and are good citizens. Now there's a least one of the homeowners who had to be warned more than once by the police to stop his verbal assaults.

I think one thing that makes this difficult to understand is that most everyone here is a "good citizen anchor-er" and respects others, both anchored and on land. At the same time at least a few of us own waterfront homes and we've never yelled at a boat-owner who anchored, never tried to get anyone moved. So, it's difficult for us to understand what led to all the uproar and consternation.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:30 PM   #98
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Well, I am not so sure.

Say you are a typical city or county LEO. Your wage isn't all that high and you have to deal with "difficult" people all day. You are running from domestic violence calls, burglaries, car prowls etc all day long. How quick do you think you would be to respond to an irate and rude rich ass homeowner who is complaining about their view being spoiled that boat that is anchored for the evening in the waterway in front of their home? Unless they happen to be the Mayor or a member of the City Council, I can easily see more pressing calls getting the priority.

Of course, maybe the LEOs in the South East are different from the ones that I know here.
Not sure about South Florida any more...but in many places I have worked with them, water LEOs are not land LEOs. While I am sure they get their share of "bozos" all day long...most water cops are of a different temperament.

I agree that the vast majority will be very polite to all but troublemakers...and for typical transients in cruising boats...they know we are not the problem for dang near anything. My guess is they will ask you to move at most...may even say wait till light...unless they are being specifically told to move you or the city is going on a fine collection fee spree. I have read about Miami Beach seawall offenders being ticketed in a heartbeat...but have no actual knowledge of what is happening there.

Janice I agree much of the time it is the low lifes...either slovenly or drunk, rich or poor that wreck almost anywhere. But in the Miami water areas...for some of the wealthy wasterside landowners...ANY vessel is a nuisance in their eyes...mega yachts even.

I see those two issues as pretty easy to solve...the bozo water wreckers are usually breaking all sorts of laws...enforce them until the problem boater says uncle...and for the wealthy landowner well...give in to their unreasonable demands and pass these laws or ignore them. Really not all that complicated for me.
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Old 03-08-2016, 02:33 PM   #99
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The Problem as I see it is the laws call for fines. Well, a guy living social security check to SS check isn't going to pay just because there is no consequence for not doing so.

If you don't pay there's an added fee. Well, a guy on the margins of society doesn't have the $183 for a fine for not showing an anchor light. He's not going to have more penalties and interest either.

Besides, he has nothing. What can anyone do to him? Nothing.
Actually they will have a warrant issued for failure to show, just like happens when someone doesn't pay a traffic ticket. At some point in their life they get stopped or in this case cited but the outstanding warrants come up and they do get hauled in. Typically it's just for one night or so in jail and another date is established, which they again likely miss.

Unfortunately, the derelict boat law that is in the legislature and could be close to passage is just as weak, Janice. It starts with the exact same schedule of fines.
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Old 03-08-2016, 03:08 PM   #100
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Actually they will have a warrant issued for failure to show, just like happens when someone doesn't pay a traffic ticket. At some point in their life they get stopped or in this case cited but the outstanding warrants come up and they do get hauled in. Typically it's just for one night or so in jail and another date is established, which they again likely miss.

Unfortunately, the derelict boat law that is in the legislature and could be close to passage is just as weak, Janice. It starts with the exact same schedule of fines.
You're right. What's a week in The Grey Bar Inn where three squares a day are provided. And hot showers. I mean really, it's not so bad to some and even a step up over what they have at present.

Fines won't solve this problem.

Impounding works for cars doesn't it? Is there a reason it would not work for boats?
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