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Old 03-05-2016, 12:43 PM   #41
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And look at the view behind his house. That would bother me more than boats.
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:49 PM   #42
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Here in Stuart FL the water in the St. Lucie is disgusting. The fish are gone, nobody fishes from the Roosevelt Bridge anymore. Not even algae survives and my sea strainers remain grass and algae free. It has become a dead zone. How this can be allowed to continue stuns me.
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Old 03-05-2016, 01:09 PM   #43
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This is a slow moving Corps of Engineers man made disaster that is far more than 100 year event.

The vegetation in a 5 mile wide belt across FL on North end of the Everglades will cause the grass to flourish as it filters the stuff out. That is the answer, but it will cost money to correct the unintended consequences of at the time good intentions of the Corps.
Certainly would be interesting to see the Environmental Impact Assessment on this project.....or does it predate EIA's???
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:21 PM   #44
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TIMjet-shouldn't all those little boats be considered "abandoned" under Fla law? No apparent owner, no activity, no movement. Does he keep the registrations current on all of them? It would seem he is doing precisely what he objects to just to keep others from also doing it. I suspect he would be pretty pi$$ed if the state came long and removed them as abandoned.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:33 PM   #45
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Greetings,
Tag the boats that are abandoned or not attended to. Post notices in the local marinas and in the local papers that said boats are tagged. Haul those suckers away after the notice period. Charge the waterfront property owners for the costs to haul away (increase their taxes-call it a shoreline improvement tax). That will either clean up the derelict boat problem OR shut the waterfront owners up.

Further, set a time limit for anchoring in one spot and enforce it through fines (parking tickets).
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:02 PM   #46
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There actually is a tagging mechanism and even a map with indicators for all the at risk vessels.

https://public.myfwc.com/LE/ArrestNe...VesselMap.aspx

There is also a bill, SB 1300, which appears ready to pass. It is a wait 30 ticket, wait 30 days ticket again, wait 30 days ticket again type bill, but there is no action specified in the bill beyond ticketing. It's still so woefully inadequate. If you're Law Enforcement how much time are you really going to spend looking for and ticketing the same boats over and over.

Florida also has no salvage law. To take claim to an abandoned vessel requires a claim process and making application to have it transferred into your name, then waiting for an investigation that may cost you $600 and take several months. Then, if successful, you then own the boat and are responsible. Picture this, you go through the process, the boat sinks the day after title is transferred to your name, and now you have to pay for salvage.

So, as of today and as of the law about to be passed there is really no system in place in Florida for removal of derelict or at risk vessels.
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:32 PM   #47
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Mr. BB. I think you've referenced that map before and noted it is not active as of yet. Should be VERY interesting to peruse, particularly for Broward County (your neck of the woods and an area I am a bit familiar with).

Thanks for the mention of SB1300. Seems another useless law that simply pays nothing more than lip service to a problem that needs addressing.

As far as salvage law, empower the LEO's. Tag and after 30 days, as I mentioned in post #45, tow to an impound area. Auction these "deals" off with a new title on a monthly basis with the proceeds going to...whatever. A charity, say.

Speaking of derelicts in Broward County, we took a run up the New River a while back and on the north shore, just before the North/South fork, there were 2, possibly 3 vessels that were in such a state of disrepair I wondered how they were still floating. They were behind a private residence. Just gotta love some neighbors...
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:02 PM   #48
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B-thanks for the details, a pretty toothless law. Yet, in many jurisdictions, the towing and subsequent vehicle storage is contracted out So, when you get a parking ticket, especially where restricted parking may affect traffic flow, there are like a half a dozen tow trucks just waiting for the time to tow to pass. All at no cost to the city. Maybe something similar for boats? One 30 day notice, then contract out the towing and disposal, let the contractors auction unclaimed off and dispose of the rest. Even if the city/state has to kick in $$ for disposal costs.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:24 PM   #49
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Greetings,
Mr. BB. I think you've referenced that map before and noted it is not active as of yet. Should be VERY interesting to peruse, particularly for Broward County (your neck of the woods and an area I am a bit familiar with).

Thanks for the mention of SB1300. Seems another useless law that simply pays nothing more than lip service to a problem that needs addressing.

As far as salvage law, empower the LEO's. Tag and after 30 days, as I mentioned in post #45, tow to an impound area. Auction these "deals" off with a new title on a monthly basis with the proceeds going to...whatever. A charity, say.

Speaking of derelicts in Broward County, we took a run up the New River a while back and on the north shore, just before the North/South fork, there were 2, possibly 3 vessels that were in such a state of disrepair I wondered how they were still floating. They were behind a private residence. Just gotta love some neighbors...
Actually the map is active now. You can search on it and you'll see many listed boats. Click on Queries in the lower right and it will give you options. There's a 34' Blue Boat up New River and it's Derelict and a hazard to navigation. I found a 20' White Boat with photo that is derelict but not a hazard.

So it's in use, just not very fully, and all it's doing is showing they know there are derelict boats there.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:26 PM   #50
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B-thanks for the details, a pretty toothless law. Yet, in many jurisdictions, the towing and subsequent vehicle storage is contracted out So, when you get a parking ticket, especially where restricted parking may affect traffic flow, there are like a half a dozen tow trucks just waiting for the time to tow to pass. All at no cost to the city. Maybe something similar for boats? One 30 day notice, then contract out the towing and disposal, let the contractors auction unclaimed off and dispose of the rest. Even if the city/state has to kick in $$ for disposal costs.
I've thought similar. Set up a boat junkyard. It would obviously require a crane or lift and then stands for the boats, so towing would not be cheap by any means. At this point there is no provision for that.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:52 PM   #51
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Greetings,
Mr. BB. Got "Chicken Under a Brick" on the stove so I'll check out the map later (I did try the query tab but alas, no joy...).

Seems if the legislators can get together and pass an anchoring law it would be pretty straight forward to rescind that law and pass the "Derelict boat Law".
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:22 PM   #52
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Greetings,
Mr. BB. Got "Chicken Under a Brick" on the stove so I'll check out the map later (I did try the query tab but alas, no joy...).

Seems if the legislators can get together and pass an anchoring law it would be pretty straight forward to rescind that law and pass the "Derelict boat Law".
Well, they think SB 1300 solves something. All it does is allows for the writing of tickets. First $50, then $100, then $250.

Enjoy your chicken.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:57 PM   #53
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B-I think it could be done relatively cheaply. Most of the abandoned and derelict boats are not too big, my guess would be that the vast majority are under 40' A decent sized flat barge, very small tug/tow, maybe a 20 ton or so crane on board and a boat stack type forklift on land. Hell, you can probably rent a barge and small towboat for less than $3,000 a day. 30 day notice goes on boat, mailed notice to current or last registered owner. then lift and dry store.. I don't even think you would need stands. Most FRP boats can lay on their sides. 30 days to redeem from storage then auction or crush. Any unused industrial waterfront provided by the jurisdiction for storage. Furthrmore, I would start tagging "owners" with the fees and costs. A transfer document should be required for all changes of ownership. If you sell the boat, you must retain a copy. If you can't show to whom you sold or gave the boat, as last registered owner, you eat the accumulated fees and costs. If you provide the info, it is turned over for collection. Pay a collection entity 60%, and they usually will find the responsible party. I also would suggest that if something like this were done and done effectively, the problem would rapidly diminish over a realtvely short time period. Word would get around quickly. That would leave the "derelict" boats to deal with. Enact minimum standards, as all building have through building codes, such as functioning propulsion, meeting CG sanitation standards, and the like and limit anchoring time, and again, the problem would diminish a lot with effective inforcement. Take some of the marine cops off terrorism watch and let them enforce the laws.
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:20 PM   #54
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Had the same thought yesterday (barge collecting abandoned and unregistered boats after notice). Something like this but with a heavier-duty crane:



Edit: here's a better one:

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Old 03-06-2016, 12:24 AM   #55
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I have mentioned it elsewhere, but Washington State developed a derelict boat program in 2002 to deal with these issues. Not perfect by any means, but it sure has helped here.
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:12 PM   #56
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Here in Stuart FL the water in the St. Lucie is disgusting. The fish are gone, nobody fishes from the Roosevelt Bridge anymore. Not even algae survives and my sea strainers remain grass and algae free. It has become a dead zone. How this can be allowed to continue stuns me.
Doesn't have anything to do with the cities dumping their sewage into the water.....
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:17 PM   #57
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I can understand both sides. The freedom to cruise and anchor were you want. The homeowner who has invested hundred if not millions of dollars in a sea side property.


But the last time I looked the property owner does not have the deed to the coastal water, therefore should not be able to ban anchoring in front of their property. However if a boat is abandon/derelict then the city/county should be able to remove the vessel with relevant ease.
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:59 PM   #58
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I can understand both sides. The freedom to cruise and anchor were you want. The homeowner who has invested hundred if not millions of dollars in a sea side property.


But the last time I looked the property owner does not have the deed to the coastal water, therefore should not be able to ban anchoring in front of their property. However if a boat is abandon/derelict then the city/county should be able to remove the vessel with relevant ease.
You're right in that the homeowner can't ban anything. However, the state has the "deed" (not actually a deed but the ownership) of the land in which we're talking about placing the anchors. And the state has the rights and the responsibilities to regulate the use in the way best for it's residents and constituents. So, as to rights, they can ban anchoring anywhere they want and the residents can try to get them to do so.

This also means that the municipalities don't have rights to regulate anchoring unless they are given those rights by the state.

As a homeowner, I don't have the deed to my neighbor's property. However, what he can do on his property is highly regulated. That includes docks he can build. Generally there is a setback on the sides of his property as far as any construction. Also, it includes how he uses the property. The properties in many areas can't be used for operating a business to which clients or customers come or employees.

The homeowner and the boater can go to the state and ask for any rights they want to.

Now, I compare the homeowner who wants no anchoring or wants anchoring not allowed within 300' or his property to the homeowner who doesn't want anyone to be allowed to build a house on the adjacent three properties. Yes, I have seen homeowners fight a developer deciding to finally build on some vacant land.

The state has the responsibility to serve all involved parties. Derelict vessels is an area that adversely impacts both homeowner and boater so no one except owners of derelict vessels has a problem with them. Anchoring is controversial. There is a solution. Doing it with piece meal legislation for three areas isn't in my opinion that solution.

At some point, the state of Florida will pass some form of regulations limiting local governments and giving them specific rules they can use for anchoring. Probably the maximum restrictions allowed. Or the state will less likely just pass a law with statewide anchoring rules.

As I said, I think the 300' suggested was crazy and ridiculous. However, boaters who want no rules and no restrictions are ultimately even less likely to win their way. In fact, the only way the extremists homeowners can win is by those who anchor refusing to compromise in any way.

If I had the power I probably would handle it like most compromises I handled in business. I'd sit both sides down in a room and say you're staying here until you reach an agreement. Then I'd say, write a rule stating what the maximum limitations municipalities can put on anchoring are. As a starting place it's greater than 1' from a homeowner's dock, and it's less than 300'. Call me when you're ready with the solution.

Unfortunately we'll battle over this for years with hardliners in both directions dominating the conversations.

I've never encountered a problem from a boater or a homeowner. Guess I've only been around those who use common sense. However, I've heard of stories from both sides that are the reason regulations are required. I've heard of the homeowner who couldn't get out from his own dock without some anchored boats moving and many of them had no one aboard to move them. I've also heard of the boat anchored as the sole boat in a cove surrounded by farm property with one house way up on the hill and the homeowner came out yelling at them to move and carrying a shotgun. Guess I've been lucky to avoid the crazies.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:07 PM   #59
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Doesn't have anything to do with the cities dumping their sewage into the water.....
Actually, in this case it doesn't at all.
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:10 PM   #60
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Here is a funny thought. Of those homeowners that is pushing for a moratorium on anchoring in front of their property. How many of them have a dock in front or back of said property..........
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