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Old 03-04-2016, 08:44 AM   #21
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I would support paying some additional tax to wreck out derelict boats. .
What is the current hull count for FL derelicts? The last number I saw was in the several thousand including those on blocks.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:55 AM   #22
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Too little land, too many people.

Boaters especially transients from out of state are not taxpayers and have little say. FL landowners have voting and representation rights.

Whether boaters from out of state or derelicts from in state, FL water front property owners are sick and tired of the visual mess and disarray. Before officially retiring we spent time in FL trying to decide course. Visited with friends and relatives and decided that unless golf, drinking and eating were high on our list of must dos we wouldn't want to live there.

Sitting by the screen enclosed pool watching sailboats jostle for position is troubling enough for many residents but when they rowed to the private dock asking for directions to the grocery store I phone videos started showing up at town meetings depicting all boaters as a bunch of locusts.

No matter how this vote turns out restrictions are continually getting more onerous. Follow the money, follow the votes and follow the web cams. Too many people, too little land. And then the derelicts. Tough situation. ---
Might add that too many marina owners find their land more valuable for condo development vice a going business.

In general, I support the removal of derelict boats and also support anchorage restrictions to the extend they prevent long term squatting in otherwise residential areas. What I don't like about this legislation is it only deals with 3 specific areas and ends up shifting the burden to other areas. A state wide solution is needed and not a collection of specific laws dealing with specific anchorages.

Unfortunately, the anchorage model is based on "free" and when things in life are free, it seems to attract the worst of the worse.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:03 AM   #23
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I wonder what the anchor anywhere folks would think about ratty RVs parked on their street
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:08 AM   #24
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I would support paying some additional tax to wreck out derelict boats...
In 2015, there were ~763,700 boats registered in FL over 12' long and that excludes canoes. The number includes dealers, recreational and commercial vessels. Add $10/year/vessel and it wouldn't take to many years.

http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/dmv/TaxC...lstats2015.pdf
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:10 AM   #25
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As is all too often the case, people seem to think that the solution to poor enforcement of laws is to pass more laws.

If the issues is derelict boats, it sounds like there are already plenty of laws and too little enforcement. If that's the problem, then solve that problem.

If the issue is homeowners who don't want their view soiled by the unwashed masses, tough Sh$@t. It's a public waterway. And I say this from a waterfront home, looking at a huge dredge barge that has been anchored right in front of my house for the past few months, and will likely remain for many more while a project is underway. It sure does soil my view, so I guess I should contact my legislator about it?

But of course strategy #1 to getting your way on an personal agenda is to masquerade it as a different issue that is easier to argue, like derelict boats.... People Suck!
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:57 AM   #26
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Nobody wants to see a bunch of derelict boats in their back yard even if it's legal. FL has laws on the books to prevent this but they are not enforced. .
A common misconception is that the laws to deal with derelict boats are on the books. They aren't. In fact there is a separate derelict boat law awaiting passage and it has been so watered down as it passed through the legislature as to be of far less help than it should.

However, that's a separate law and separate discussion.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:15 AM   #27
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Now, as to the anchoring law, I think one problem right now is it's being made by most to be anchoring vs. not anchoring. There is a much more critical issue at play. It is who is going to regulate anchoring, who is going to manage and control it. Those rights currently belong to the state. The state is running a pilot program to study alternatives. This current battle arose from individual municipalities attempting to set their own rules and the state jumped in and stopped them. It was found, by law, that the municipalities do not currently have those rights.

The state wants a uniform approach and a controlled approach to determining the best means of providing and managing anchoring and moorages. However, this law under current consideration is to usurp the state's current authority by writing a separate law covering a few specific anchorages. This is to circumvent current laws. The key issue here is that then you turn things loose for every town to try to get a state law passed to allow them to do what they want. Every neighborhood.

By making this fight anchoring vs. homeowners, the real key point is being missed. This bill is state vs. municipalities. It is circumventing the authority of the state, compromising the study and pilot underway. It is truly a special interest bill but not one of homeowners, one of specific homeowners in specific areas. We're homeowners but this law doesn't impact our home. However, it does impact one area 1/2 mile or so from us and another 2 miles away. It allows for a different law covering the anchorage 200 yards from us and the one 800 yards away.

It is the worst of special interests and hodgepodge law making. Rest assured there are going to ultimately be anchoring laws, but the state has been working to figure out solutions that serve the entire state and the visiting boaters. They've been taking a systematic approach.

As an aside too this law is a bit about water skiers and jet skiers vs. anchoring. Yet, that is overlooked. Yes, two of the areas this covers are areas used for water skiers and jet skiers and legal for those sports.

I am not arguing who should anchor where and why and when and how as to me that's the separate issue. I'm opposed to this as it's nothing but the way of a few special interests circumventing the rights and authority of the state and pushing this through because the state has actually chosen instead to try to systematically study and evaluate the issue.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:49 AM   #28
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Old 03-04-2016, 02:02 PM   #29
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That was just the Gulf Coast Amendment. Now, that makes the situation even more strange. The proponents of the current bill want to pass a state law eliminating anchoring in Middle River, Sunset Lake and a part of Biscayne Bayb but don't you dare tack Crab Island onto our bill. I also find it curious that we walked out on our upper balcony this morning and looked down Middle River. Not a single boat we could see anchored. We were so disappointed as often there are some nice sailboats out there.
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:30 PM   #30
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Once this isn't the current topic, and the issue has been settled, I'd expect some areas to have anchoring restrictions. But will they really be enforced i wonder?
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Old 03-04-2016, 04:42 PM   #31
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Once this isn't the current topic, and the issue has been settled, I'd expect some areas to have anchoring restrictions. But will they really be enforced i wonder?
I think there will be some enforced, simply because the homeowners complaining will call for enforcement. It's my hope that the final results go both ways in creating anchorages and moorages and in creating rules that both sides can live with.

I find the derelict vessel law to be far more important and the way the one being considered right now has been watered down, I see very little likelihood of enforcement.

I think the state has overall moved responsibly, just some people won't accept that. They created pilot sites. They then said they wanted to see that project completely through to 2017 before making further recommendations. Again, some want immediate and far reaching solutions.

When we purchased in Fort Lauderdale in 2012 there was one area we chose not to purchase because of the number of boats anchored. We didn't mind the look, but didn't want to have to go through that every time in and out. My problem is why purchase in such a situation and then feel it must change. WYSIWYG.

We have an anchorage close to our home and it's never a problem. The anchoring in Middle River, which is part of the bill, is very close to us as well. We saw it before we bought here and nothing has changed. There have been some blow ups though when local enforcement has asked boats to move in the area near the park. Note, I didn't say to leave, just to move a little. I do not know the specifics beyond that and have no first hand knowledge.

In my opinion, as a homeowner, I don't consider us to have an anchoring problem in our area. I do consider derelict boats a problem nearly everywhere there is boating in the country and because Florida has more boating, it's more of an issue, but totally separate from anchoring.

I wish the pro-anchor side would come up with their own recommendation at some point, perhaps at the completion of the pilot. This is a pre-emptive move I'd like to see. I do believe there will be some restrictions and who better to come up with a reasonable plan than those who do anchor. Some sites and publications have campaigned diligently against various proposed laws but I haven't seen their alternative proposal.

And I am strongly opposed to a piece meal solution of the state legislature passing a provision to cover a specific anchorage.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:25 PM   #32
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Our Maritime Authority is tough on bad boats sitting on location licensed moorings, I expect they take particular exception to similar boats on unlicensed moorings.
Our problem is less about boats tethered in the water and more about boats on trailers parked in the streets. Some trailer boat owners won`t keep their boat on their own property or pay for storage, so they park them, not necessarily near where they live. A couple of boats parked together seem to breed, quiet suburban streets can become clogged with parked boats on trailers.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:35 PM   #33
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A common misconception is that the laws to deal with derelict boats are on the books. They aren't. In fact there is a separate derelict boat law awaiting passage and it has been so watered down as it passed through the legislature as to be of far less help than it should.

However, that's a separate law and separate discussion.
It is a separate law, but I don't think it is entirely a separate issue. Derelict boats create unhappiness that can lead to folks complaining about any boats anchored out.

I am in the upper left-hand corner rather than the lower right as you are, but I would have a hard time believing that a homeowner would be upset about a cruiser anchoring in the late afternoon or evening and then moving on in the morning (often before the land dwellers are even awake). However, abandon an ugly, slowly deteriorating boat out in front of their property, I can see them rightly being very upset.

It just seems to me that by solving the derelict boat issue it would go a long way to solving a lot of problems for everyone.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:02 PM   #34
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It is a separate law, but I don't think it is entirely a separate issue. Derelict boats create unhappiness that can lead to folks complaining about any boats anchored out.

I am in the upper left-hand corner rather than the lower right as you are, but I would have a hard time believing that a homeowner would be upset about a cruiser anchoring in the late afternoon or evening and then moving on in the morning (often before the land dwellers are even awake). However, abandon an ugly, slowly deteriorating boat out in front of their property, I can see them rightly being very upset.

It just seems to me that by solving the derelict boat issue it would go a long way to solving a lot of problems for everyone.
Certainly the derelict boats have contributed heavily to the problem. Also, while you and I consider the cruiser anchoring pleasant, there are some who don't even like that. They are definitely in the minority. But then you look at this bill. The majority of people in Florida aren't pushing for banning anchorages in these three locations. This is definitely not a bill of public demand, but very much special interest legislation.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:26 AM   #35
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"Make little difference though, the current regime has ignored the referendum that had 70% support by the voters to correct the Okeechobee water releases that are killing the Indian River Lagoon and ditto Fort Meyers area:

This Jan FL rain (15 inches) happens every 105 years or so.

There will be loads of time to "cure " any problem.

My guess would be the water is directed to Miami and the Keys , rather than dumped in the ocean.

Its all drinkable fresh rain water , discolored by a bit of tannin from Lake O dead leaves.

Easy enough and cheap enough to filter.

The only hassle with some transients is their rowing ashore to leave dog poop in the yard.

Not my problem were too far in a canal system , but neighbors dont like it much.
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:54 AM   #36
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Also, while you and I consider the cruiser anchoring pleasant, there are some who don't even like that.
Thanks BandB for an excellent analysis of this issue. As an example of someone who doesn't want any anchoring in front of his house, below is a picture of the Sunset Lake anchorage, one of the 3 anchorages considered in the bill. The picture shows 20+ small dinghy's anchored in front of his house presumably to prevent anyone from anchoring nearby. We anchored about 1/4 mile from this homeowners house and saw one other boat in the anchorage. This was the summer of '14.

My guess is though the homeowner may be rich he has other issues in his life and is probably not a very happy person.
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:33 AM   #37
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Thanks BandB for an excellent analysis of this issue. As an example of someone who doesn't want any anchoring in front of his house, below is a picture of the Sunset Lake anchorage, one of the 3 anchorages considered in the bill. The picture shows 20+ small dinghy's anchored in front of his house presumably to prevent anyone from anchoring nearby. We anchored about 1/4 mile from this homeowners house and saw one other boat in the anchorage. This was the summer of '14.

My guess is though the homeowner may be rich he has other issues in his life and is probably not a very happy person.
Yes, it's not the anchoring boats making his life miserable, but his response to them. I'm sure sometime there was one who really bothered him and was probably a jerk or a derelict or loud till 3 AM or discharged. Who knows. However, when you become obsessed, all consumed by it, you have a problem. Can you imagine how much he's harassed law enforcement, legislators, and others over this issue. To some of them it's probably worth passing the bill just to not deal with him anymore.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:58 AM   #38
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A diver, sharp knife or cable cutters could have fun with this guy. He deserves as much. One obsesser meets another. This guy is legend here in FL. Danger to others is of concern though in setting them free.
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:37 PM   #39
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:38 PM   #40
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"Make little difference though, the current regime has ignored the referendum that had 70% support by the voters to correct the Okeechobee water releases that are killing the Indian River Lagoon and ditto Fort Meyers area:

This Jan FL rain (15 inches) happens every 105 years or so.

There will be loads of time to "cure " any problem.

My guess would be the water is directed to Miami and the Keys , rather than dumped in the ocean.

Its all drinkable fresh rain water , discolored by a bit of tannin from Lake O dead leaves.

Easy enough and cheap enough to filter.

The only hassle with some transients is their rowing ashore to leave dog poop in the yard.

Not my problem were too far in a canal system , but neighbors dont like it much.

FF,
On issues like this you are usually dead on. This time you are dead wrong. In 2013 the poison wrecked havoc on the Lagoon. Killing reefs, oysters and so forth. Red tide was everywhere killing manatees among other things. The water quality was so bad in Stuart that there were many cases of people getting the poisonous water on bare human skin that lesions soon followed.

You may drink all you want of the nitrogen-phosphorus fertilizer filled polluted crap from the Sugar cane fields you wish but not me or mine. I just brought a Great Harbor 37 through the waterway from Ft Meyers. The water release where the water was churned foamed up like old time Tide laundry water.

That lake water is a filthy cesspool of ag waste and it is killing the beaches, reefs polluting both coast. Drive behind Publix at the causeway on US1 north Fort Pierce and look at the filthy mess coming over that spillway.

Here at Harbortown at Taylor Creek the water is so filthy there are no fish, not even mullet or jacks. I cannot do my monthly fire up of my water maker for fear of ruining filters, or worse. 5 divers that clean boat bottoms here are out of comission due to sickness.

Last year I was 5 miles or so out steaming north parallel to the beach I did not need my GPS or anything else but the brown stain coming from the inlet on an out flowing tide, all I had to do was follow it in. .This is a slow moving Corps of Engineers man made disaster that is far more than 100 year event.

The vegetation in a 5 mile wide belt across FL on North end of the Everglades will cause the grass to flourish as it filters the stuff out. That is the answer, but it will cost money to correct the unintended consequences of at the time good intentions of the Corps.
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