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Old 06-16-2016, 09:59 PM   #1
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Seattle area...

Been a member for a little while. Recently moved from Sonoma County CA to Fall City, WA.

We're building a house, barn & shop on acreage here. My wife needs the barn for her animals, and I have a bunch of ancient British sports cars, vintage race cars, etc.

I've also messed around with boats for the past 45 years...
Currently, I'm helping a good friend with a 40' wood trawler yacht that he inherited. They have put far, far more money into it than it's "worth". Brand new Cummins engine, all new electronics, new paint & varnish, and refastened... Someone will get a good deal on a totally rebuilt boat before too long...

My pal is planning on selling it soon, and getting into a trailerable walkaround sport fishing boat. In the meantime, I'm assisting him with the upkeep, and teaching him how to operate it. Single screw, no thrusters... It's been interesting...

I have unlimited access to the boat, but prefer something more modern, as in; not wood...

So, I do have neighbor / friend who is very interested in getting into yachting. He is wanting to buy a nice boat in the 40-50' range, and have me as minority partner, managing the boat. Instructing him in operating / seamanship, etc. His financial situation is such that the money part of it is somewhat irrelevant. Thusly, he's wanting me as his partner because of my experience, etc.

So... I'm introducing him to the various types of boats in this range, that are appropriate to the PNW waters. Which brings us to this forum!

I'm new to the area, and am seeking advice on reputable brokers, a suitable yacht club, etc...

I'm an almost 60 business owner, married, former airline captain, with grown kids. Partner is 40 something with three school age kids. I've suggested we join a club with a decent juniors sailing program for his kids. Also one with a friendly membership that would be good to cruise the local waters with, and help out the new guy. A good bar is of course essential...

So... With all that, where do we go from here?

Ed
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:14 PM   #2
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So... With all that, where do we go from here?

Ed
Have you ever been a minority owner in anything? Owning a minority is owning nothing, unless you have to pitch in on expenses. Sounds a lot to me like he's getting all your work and services for free. I've never encouraged anyone to be a minority owner of anything. Now, if you decision is made and final, I'll speak no more on the subject.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:28 PM   #3
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Good point...

At this point in time, I'm not interested in investing in a yacht, but would like participation in one. No financial input on my part, just advice, guidance, instruction and managing the boat. Usage, with the only cost fuel and a fairly minor monthly maintenance pool.

What's the downside?
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Old 06-16-2016, 11:57 PM   #4
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Sounds like a nice opportunity to me if you can work out the inevitable conflicts that may arise.
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:09 AM   #5
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Sounds like a nice opportunity to me if you can work out the inevitable conflicts that may arise.
If. Maybe it will work, but my experience observing such where the majority owner provides the money and the minority the work is that it doesn't. Conflicts do arise and the vote to resolve them is 1 to 0 as the minority owner really has no vote. Now I hope this situation and the understanding works much better.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:22 AM   #6
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I don't think that was exactly the information he was looking for. Sounded like an un solicited opinion. Prolly a good one but at sixty he sounded quite capable ......... I would be interested in that type of information too?
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by GT6 View Post
Been a member for a little while. Recently moved from Sonoma County CA to Fall City, WA.

We're building a house, barn & shop on acreage here. My wife needs the barn for her animals, and I have a bunch of ancient British sports cars, vintage race cars, etc.

I've also messed around with boats for the past 45 years...
Currently, I'm helping a good friend with a 40' wood trawler yacht that he inherited. They have put far, far more money into it than it's "worth". Brand new Cummins engine, all new electronics, new paint & varnish, and refastened... Someone will get a good deal on a totally rebuilt boat before too long...

My pal is planning on selling it soon, and getting into a trailerable walkaround sport fishing boat. In the meantime, I'm assisting him with the upkeep, and teaching him how to operate it. Single screw, no thrusters... It's been interesting...

I have unlimited access to the boat, but prefer something more modern, as in; not wood...

So, I do have neighbor / friend who is very interested in getting into yachting. He is wanting to buy a nice boat in the 40-50' range, and have me as minority partner, managing the boat. Instructing him in operating / seamanship, etc. His financial situation is such that the money part of it is somewhat irrelevant. Thusly, he's wanting me as his partner because of my experience, etc.

So... I'm introducing him to the various types of boats in this range, that are appropriate to the PNW waters. Which brings us to this forum!

I'm new to the area, and am seeking advice on reputable brokers, a suitable yacht club, etc...

I'm an almost 60 business owner, married, former airline captain, with grown kids. Partner is 40 something with three school age kids. I've suggested we join a club with a decent juniors sailing program for his kids. Also one with a friendly membership that would be good to cruise the local waters with, and help out the new guy. A good bar is of course essential...

So... With all that, where do we go from here?

Ed
Get ahold of Jon Heisel at Irwin Yacht Sales (425-359-5341) on Lake Union- he is an affable, patient, and knowledgable yacht broker. Tell him Pete sent ya
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:45 PM   #8
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I don't think that was exactly the information he was looking for. Sounded like an un solicited opinion. Prolly a good one but at sixty he sounded quite capable ......... I would be interested in that type of information too?
I've seen lots of sixty year old's confident such partnerships would work out. Normally it's been with long time friends too. What is the downside? Worst case-Loss of a friend, loss of any money he puts into it, and a lot of time and effort with nothing left to show for it. Potential best case-All works well and all boat together happily ever after.

I've often heard partnerships described as like marriages but with none of the benefits. Well, minority roles in partnerships then would be like marriages where the other spouse has all the control and makes all the decisions.

Partnerships in business work poorly. I've also known several people who were partners in boats, although generally equal investments and sharing all expenses. One lasted less than six months but they parted amicably. One lasted two years and they argued constantly over use and expenses. One lasted five years and went perfectly all that time. They decided to sell the boat and they agreed on that. Not a single dispute until that point. Then all heck broke lose as they fought over price, over brokers, over terms and because they were 50/50 owners there was no one to decide and they ended up in court.

Now, I don't think this is likely to be a real partnership, just an understanding between friends, which carries as much weight at the paper it's not written on. Probably little to lose. Potentially gain the use of a boat while learning more. Actually I'd consider it far safer than a real partnership since it leaves Ed free to walk away at any time with no further obligation.

Ed asked for an opinion on where to go from here. My answer is anywhere you want but just with your eyes wide open. Take it for what it is, but understand it may not work like you hope. It may however be the best of all worlds.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:07 PM   #9
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My wife's cousin and friends were partners in a sailboat for more than 15 years and had no problems. That said, they were not next door neighbors and contributed 50/50 to the cost of upkeep. So you might keep in mind what happens in the neighbor relations arena if things don't work out. If you do it, I recommend a written agreement with a clear buy/sell provision. Investing in your friendship by getting a competent lawyer to draw it up is a good way to go. If you are both involved in the process, you will both know going in what the deal is. Regarding yacht clubs, if you want to be on freshwater--on the eastside you will find Meydenbauer--I don't know if they have a junior sailing program. On the west side, Seattle and Queen City both have juniors programs. Rainier is a little south, and I don't know if they have sailing programs. Each one has a different "feel" but all are solid clubs.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:28 PM   #10
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I guess gt6 no one read your post. I don't know the area well enough to suggest a club. I'm in the process of doing the same thing. Brokers, well that's hard one. I used Andrew Youngblood there in Seattle "Ocean Trawler Yachts. He did a good job and is still in the refit process since I'm on the otherside of the country. They make a percentage of the sale price. The one selling and the one buying. That leaves very little incentive for them to get the best deal, educate yourself. I mean everything you can get your hands own. This forum was a very good resource for myself. Remember everyone is looking out for themselves Brokers included, however the right one can spot a lot of the fish hooks. They say don't worry seller pays for the Brokers and that is bullshit it's in the price of the boat. It's very much like a Real Estate Agent. That being said the right one earns his money by steering you away from the traps. Andrew was my second Broker, fired my first. To busy trying to save his commission then representing my best interest. Good luck.
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Old 06-17-2016, 06:05 PM   #11
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I guess gt6 no one read your post. I don't know the area well enough to suggest a club. I'm in the process of doing the same thing. Brokers, well that's hard one. I used Andrew Youngblood there in Seattle "Ocean Trawler Yachts. He did a good job and is still in the refit process since I'm on the otherside of the country. They make a percentage of the sale price. The one selling and the one buying. That leaves very little incentive for them to get the best deal, educate yourself. I mean everything you can get your hands own. This forum was a very good resource for myself. Remember everyone is looking out for themselves Brokers included, however the right one can spot a lot of the fish hooks. They say don't worry seller pays for the Brokers and that is bullshit it's in the price of the boat. It's very much like a Real Estate Agent. That being said the right one earns his money by steering you away from the traps. Andrew was my second Broker, fired my first. To busy trying to save his commission then representing my best interest. Good luck.
Youngblood is a good broker. He and Leilani make a good team representing Selene and other makes.

With regards to clubs- Seattle YC has a great juniors program, as does Queen City. I'm the Commodore of Tyee YC, and, while a great club, we really aren't much for junior actvities.
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Old 06-17-2016, 06:21 PM   #12
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Good info all.
I get the potential pitfalls of the "partnership" thing. Each of the five boats we've owned has been solely owned by my wife & me. At this time, we prefer to put the money into the new property & building.

I completely agree that sole ownership is vastly preferred. Unfortunately, today that would require us selling our vintage sports & race cars to fund a nice used $250k boat. I'm thinking of selling a couple cars, but not ready to get out of the vintage sports car scene.

So, better to enter a minority partnership with access but no equity, or stay out of yachting and get a smaller, trailerable fishing boat? (24-27') I'll probably go ahead and get the smaller boat, but wouldn't it be fun to also have access to a nice yacht with the only "investment" being labor & management?

Also appears that Anacortes or relatively similar would be a better mooring location for us than the lakes / Seattle.

Ed
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