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Old 06-09-2014, 03:21 PM   #21
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You might try the 38 Bayliner. I have one and they are reasonably common. If you are a liveaboard the extra few feet is nice and the Hinos are good.

For freshwater boats in this size I would look at Toledo and Detroit and don't be afraid to import to Canada.
Look nice...Twin...hmm...what kind of GPH are you getting?
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #22
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I have looked at Bodega from Bayliner, fantastic layout...all powered by Gas, which is a non-starter for me. Cant imagine the cost of doing great loop in gas!
Really? My first two fishing boats had 454's. Looking back on it - I'd go with them again, especially now with these high prices. I paid $3/ltr the other day for D2 and gas was only $2/ltr.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:30 PM   #23
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The gas vs. diesel question pops up frequently. There are pros and cons of each. However, in general those lighter boats under 35' are good for gas and those heavier or over 35' better for diesel. The reason that typically works that way is weight and torque. Diesel engines have better torque so will perform better at low speeds and with lots of weight. They are also designed more to accommodate continued use, although that's only some diesels.

Here is an excellent unbiased discussion from Volvo. They make and sell both.

Gas vs. Diesel Marine Engines | Power Products Blog
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:32 PM   #24
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Hi Steph, all the best in your search. The wife & I are in the final stages of the adventure your contemplating embarking on. We found our boat and have it pretty much ready to go, the final step that we have become severely bogged down on (read scared to the point of inaction) is what to do with the house & a lifetime accumulation of stuff.

You may want to widen your search for a boat as the trawler pickings in Ontario are pretty slim and far overpriced compared to the USA. We too went looking for an Albin for likely all the same reasons as you and ultimately found our Albin in Florida. We had intended to bring it home immediately but it made more sense to start our adventure from there so we fly down for a month or so at a time whenever we can get away. Makes for a great inexpensive vacation while we prepare the boat. Note, I mean the vacation itself is inexpensive, the boat like most others is an awe inspiring money pit from hell.

Good luck, keep us posted!
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:25 PM   #25
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Hi Steph, all the best in your search. The wife & I are in the final stages of the adventure your contemplating embarking on. We found our boat and have it pretty much ready to go, the final step that we have become severely bogged down on (read scared to the point of inaction) is what to do with the house & a lifetime accumulation of stuff.

You may want to widen your search for a boat as the trawler pickings in Ontario are pretty slim and far overpriced compared to the USA. We too went looking for an Albin for likely all the same reasons as you and ultimately found our Albin in Florida. We had intended to bring it home immediately but it made more sense to start our adventure from there so we fly down for a month or so at a time whenever we can get away. Makes for a great inexpensive vacation while we prepare the boat. Note, I mean the vacation itself is inexpensive, the boat like most others is an awe inspiring money pit from hell.

Good luck, keep us posted!
Yep, I noticed (slim pickings in Canada vs Florida)...I like your idea...I wanted to become liveaboard for awhile, that way I could rent the house and work/update the boat before going away.

Food for thought for sure.

Thanks!
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:52 PM   #26
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The gas vs. diesel question pops up frequently. There are pros and cons of each. However, in general those lighter boats under 35' are good for gas and those heavier or over 35' better for diesel.
Mine were 31 and 35 Bertrams. Wish I still had them. Gosh we hate volvos!
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:36 PM   #27
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Re: Potemtial Great Loopers!

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[...]We also decided to become liveaboard and get rid of all our crap! So, we're looking generally for either Albin 36 Double Cabin or Marine Trader 34 Double Cabin.
I went aboard a 34' Marine Trader at an in-the-water boat show in Alameda, CA several years ago. It was a nice boat, apparently well constructed, at least to the casual eye. I remember thinking that it would be great as a "starter" trawler -- providing an opportunity to become familiar with diesel engines, trawler systems, and so forth. And fun to sleep aboard for a weekend.

But as a live-aboard vessel? No way. It was just too small.

I can visualize living aboard such a small boat in the short term -- for a few weeks in the summertime, when nice weather provided an opportunity to hang out on the flying bridge or elsewhere on the topsides.

But in the wintertime, I and whoever I lived aboard with would get on each others' nerves and be at each others' throats in a metric heartbeat. Not my idea of a good time.

The boat I went aboard, and most if not all of the examples I've seen photos of on Yachtworld.com, had duel single berths in the aft cabin rather than a double berth.

Besides, on a boat that size, stowage space -- for clothes, pots and pans, reading material, and so forth-- would be at a considerable premium.

And if you're into video entertainment, where would you put the TV and DVR where they wouldn't be in the way? Or where they wouldn't have to be moved when you sat down at the table to eat?

A 34-foot trawler would be fun in its own way. But a Nordhavn, it ain't.

Personally, having attended any number of boat shows since 1966, the smallest boat I'd consider living aboard would be in the neighborhood of 50 feet.

Somebody else made a slightly-extended version of the Marine Trader 34: a 35-footer, with a portside salon door and twin engines, but otherwise nearly identical. You can find examples on Yachtworld.com. But I urge you to reconsider the size of the boat you're thinking of living aboard.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:15 PM   #28
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I have looked at Bodega from Bayliner, fantastic layout...all powered by Gas, which is a non-starter for me.

Not so. There are Bodegas with Volvo diesels out there. I know this because I've been jonesing after one of those boats for ages, and have been following the listings for them on Yachtworld.com. (I only have a 2859 now, but...baby steps, baby steps...)

I went aboard a Bodega at the Seattle boat show (in the Kingdome -- RIP) in 1981. It made a considerable impression on me. My parents had purchased a new Bayliner Victoria 2750 Sunbridge not long before, which to this day is the coolest boat in its size range that I've ever seen, so I was attentive to all things Bayliner at the time.

FYI, their hulls were built by Hatteras -- and therefore, in one pundit's description, were "built to outlast time."

So, bottom line: if you really like the Bodega and really want a diesel example, keep watching the listings.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:00 AM   #29
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FYI, their hulls were built by Hatteras -- and therefore, in one pundit's description, were "built to outlast time."

.
While I think the Bayliner Bodega is a well built boat as were many of the Bayliner cruisers, I don't believe they were built by Hatteras. Bayliner did build some boats in New Bern, but on their own. Then ultimately Brunswick owned both Hatteras and Bayliner.

Still Bayliner built an excellent boat. In fact they built so much boat for their price that it ultimately led to Bayliner's cruisers/ MY's being changed to Meridian just so Brunswick could raise the price. Bayliner's cruisers and their runabouts were entirely different levels on the quality scale.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:17 AM   #30
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I went aboard a 34' Marine Trader at an in-the-water boat show in Alameda, CA several years ago. It was a nice boat, apparently well constructed, at least to the casual eye. I remember thinking that it would be great as a "starter" trawler -- providing an opportunity to become familiar with diesel engines, trawler systems, and so forth. And fun to sleep aboard for a weekend.

But as a live-aboard vessel? No way. It was just too small.
Not as tight as an Airstream travel trailer. At 33ft long x 8ft across = 264sf
put in a family of three and there's no space for anything.

My 31 Bertram had more space up/down than the Airstream and we lived on it year-round. When I moved up to the 35 Bertram, it increased the space by 25%.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:43 PM   #31
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I went aboard a 34' Marine Trader at an in-the-water boat show ...

But as a live-aboard vessel? No way. It was just too small.

...

But in the wintertime, I and whoever I lived aboard with would get on each others' nerves and be at each others' throats in a metric heartbeat. Not my idea of a good time.

...

Besides, on a boat that size, stowage space -- for clothes, pots and pans, reading material, and so forth-- would be at a considerable premium.

And if you're into video entertainment ,,,,

...

But I urge you to reconsider the size of the boat you're thinking of living aboard.
Thanks for the input Geoffm, for you, it may be too small.

Everyone is different. Most liveaboards (couples) live on 35ft sailboats...I know a couple on a 34ft that have lived on there for over 4 years....have you seen how much room there is on a sailboat?

The Marine Traders are huge comparatively. As Ghostrider42 points out, an airstream is even smaller. If you want to see living small, check out the Tiny House movement.

Not a personal attack, but your metric heartbeat, also reflects your personality and the relationship with your mate, as many people have done it and are still living it.

I know a couple that have lived very happily on 37 trawler for over 15 years. Very famous on this board actually.

As for stowage space, who needs 10 pairs of jeans? shoes? etc. Most liveaboards have offsite storage for seasons and extra items.

And as far as books and electronics go. Books, only a few hardbooks should be required, the rest being digital on a laptop and on the cloud. Same for music and videos. TV, sure, 25-30 with a PS3 and VGA connection. No need for DVR, I have one at home and never watch it, I mostly watch live sports, netflix and TV series.

But thanks for the advice!
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:06 PM   #32
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Thanks for the input Geoffm, for you, it may be too small.

Everyone is different. Most liveaboards (couples) live on 35ft sailboats...I know a couple on a 34ft that have lived on there for over 4 years....have you seen how much room there is on a sailboat?

The Marine Traders are huge comparatively. As Ghostrider42 points out, an airstream is even smaller. If you want to see living small, check out the Tiny House movement.

Not a personal attack, but your metric heartbeat, also reflects your personality and the relationship with your mate, as many people have done it and are still living it.

I know a couple that have lived very happily on 37 trawler for over 15 years. Very famous on this board actually.

As for stowage space, who needs 10 pairs of jeans? shoes? etc. Most liveaboards have offsite storage for seasons and extra items.

And as far as books and electronics go. Books, only a few hardbooks should be required, the rest being digital on a laptop and on the cloud. Same for music and videos. TV, sure, 25-30 with a PS3 and VGA connection. No need for DVR, I have one at home and never watch it, I mostly watch live sports, netflix and TV series.

But thanks for the advice!
I think the size issue is very much a personal thing. Some could cruise the country in an Airstream very happily and others would be claustrophobic. I do think one should sample before jumping in and chartering is a great way to do so. Much depends on lifestyle. We have too many guests for such a size. But was it us in our days of doing much alone then I could see it. Now as to some of the things one can and cannot take aboard that's always a personal thing. Take away the option for lots of clothes and shoes and my wife would be most unhappy. On the other hand the nature of clothes in a warm climate means they don't take much space. Love our DVR and would never give it up. If nothing else just the ability to back up a bit and relook. However, books in our mind are superseded by Kindle, etc. Only hard copies required on a boat are a few boating things that aren't in electronic versions. Similarly, we carry no CD's or DVD's. All stored on hard drives or cloud accessed.

I can't tell anyone what size they'll be happy with. I'd just advise people to give that a lot of consideration. Go on as many boats as possible. Charter. And when you charter look at the space and storage and your belongings and actually go through discussing what you could put where and what you could have on your boat vs. what there would not be space for. In some ways, follow the theory of pain. That is, can I give it up without pain. If so, then it's not a problem. When you reach a boat size that causes pain then one size too small for you.

Now the other aspect of space and togetherness. Again, individual and may well depend on previous lifestyle. A couple of two professionals who traveled a lot separately and had minimum time together might struggle in a small space. But a couple that has always embraced a tremendous amount of time together won't. When at home do you find yourselves in the same room or different parts of the house? See, we have a quite large land home, but seldom are we doing things apart in it. The vast majority of time we're in the same room. Other couples couldn't stand not having more individual time.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:03 PM   #33
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Steph - Best of luck to you on your search for a vessel. As soon as we finish our injector pump repairs in Sandusky, Ohio, we're off for the Erie canal.

According to Skipper Bob's cruising guide for the canal, the height limitations are:

21' - Troy N.Y.east to Oswego canal
17' - Champlain Canal
16.5' - Cayuge-Seneca Canal
15.5' - Oswego west to Tonawanda

Have to pass along my boat buying mantra "Don't buy the biggest boat you can afford, buy the smallest you can live on" We followed that rule and got on the water much sooner that we figured.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:58 PM   #34
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Have to pass along my boat buying mantra "Don't buy the biggest boat you can afford, buy the smallest you can live on" We followed that rule and got on the water much sooner that we figured.

Amen. This may shock some folks but we are seriously considering a couple of minor modifications to our Owens and using it as a part time liveaboard/Loop cruiser in retirement. We are true minimalists at heart though.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:36 AM   #35
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Wifey B: I'm spoiled. Ok, I admit it but not entering a 12 step recovery program for it as I like it. But this made me think. When I was a child and in the house, and I use that term quite loosely and generously and only if by definition a house doesn't have to meet any real requirements, I would have considered a 35' boat to have been a gigantic palace. (House I'm guessing was maybe 20x20). Now I would find it extremely difficult although I could do it. Just don't.

Still it's a reminder that compared to most of the world the person on here with the smallest boat is living like a king or queen or some combination thereof. Reminder, not to start political talk but simply because this made me think of it and I'm sort of random in thought, 20% of the kids in the US today are living in poverty. Look, I'm not whining as I'm the luckiest girl in the world, but having been there, it's not a nice place. Luckily I didn't know how bad it sucked then cause for me it was normal.

Heck, the only boats I saw as a kid were on tv and the one time I went with some group to a lake.

Need for 10 pairs of jeans. We need to be sure we don't forget the diff between need and want. Like when we say, "Let's go eat, I'm starving." Well, most of us don't know what the heck starving is.

Not telling anyone to feel bad for what they have. Just as we talk about what we can live with, it's a lot less in boat size and every other way than we sometimes think.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:56 AM   #36
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Thanks for the input Geoffm, for you, it may be too small.

Everyone is different. Most liveaboards (couples) live on 35ft sailboats...I know a couple on a 34ft that have lived on there for over 4 years....have you seen how much room there is on a sailboat?

The Marine Traders are huge comparatively. As Ghostrider42 points out, an airstream is even smaller. If you want to see living small, check out the Tiny House movement.
100sf tumbleweeds home would be very difficult to live in. I'm told some people do it.

A 35 motorsailor like my Dad would have built has about 300sf

My project this winter is a Cohaique cypress 35 powercat with two staterooms, two heads, fishing platform powered by twin 115hp hidden Tohatsu motors. We are bringing the cypress planks with us as we motor north from UY.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:51 AM   #37
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...Note, I mean the vacation itself is inexpensive, the boat like most others is an awe inspiring money pit from hell...
Ha! Good description. Isn't that the truth. Just overhauled my bow pulpit, including four new silicon bronze mounting bolts, bronze nuts and bronze washers at about $7 each with shipping. It never ends.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:00 PM   #38
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Wifey B: I'm spoiled. Ok, I admit it but not entering a 12 step recovery program for it as I like it. But this made me think. When I was a child and in the house, and I use that term quite loosely and generously and only if by definition a house doesn't have to meet any real requirements, I would have considered a 35' boat to have been a gigantic palace. (House I'm guessing was maybe 20x20). Now I would find it extremely difficult although I could do it. Just don't.

Still it's a reminder that compared to most of the world the person on here with the smallest boat is living like a king or queen or some combination thereof. Reminder, not to start political talk but simply because this made me think of it and I'm sort of random in thought, 20% of the kids in the US today are living in poverty. Look, I'm not whining as I'm the luckiest girl in the world, but having been there, it's not a nice place. Luckily I didn't know how bad it sucked then cause for me it was normal.

Heck, the only boats I saw as a kid were on tv and the one time I went with some group to a lake.

Need for 10 pairs of jeans. We need to be sure we don't forget the diff between need and want. Like when we say, "Let's go eat, I'm starving." Well, most of us don't know what the heck starving is.

Not telling anyone to feel bad for what they have. Just as we talk about what we can live with, it's a lot less in boat size and every other way than we sometimes think.
Very well stated. I too now know what it was like growing up in a family that didn't have much when I was young. My wife and I are moving from the 40 Mainship SB basically a pretty wide 41' boat to a 36 Gulfstar MarkII trawler and we are thrilled. Could we live in the boat if needed? Absolutely and comfortably.

As far as Bayliners we actually looked at 2859's with the Alaskan enclosure but decided against mainly because my wife wanted a real shower and she didn't want to squat over the head as she put it to take a shower. Otherwise they are very nice boats.
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Old 06-19-2014, 02:32 PM   #39
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As far as Bayliners we actually looked at 2859's with the Alaskan enclosure but decided against mainly because my wife wanted a real shower and she didn't want to squat over the head as she put it to take a shower. Otherwise they are very nice boats.
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I've always thought the 2859 would be a GREAT great loop boat for one person.

Easy to maneuver, small enough to get a slip almost anywhere. Big enough to live on with a shower, etc... And easy to work on with a huge engine room. Outdrive making it simple to work on or even replace the whole thing in a half hour.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #40
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100sf tumbleweeds home would be very difficult to live in. I'm told some people do it.
...
Agreed, was just saying...it is very personal. 300 would work for us tho. When you add sundeck and flybridge space, you are probably closer to 500 of living space...granted not during the winter tho!

Thanks for the input to everyone...a lot to ponder.
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