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Old 02-25-2016, 12:48 PM   #21
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The GH TT35 is an interesting design. I just finished the survey and offer these thoughts:


Engine- I would go for a small, 75 hp diesel like the new Yanmar common rail JH engine. It will make 20 hp per gph as opposed to the outboards which will be lucky to hit 12 hp per gph. That engine should push it nicely along at 8 kts and get 4-5 nm/gal. Expecting 3 nm/gal from outboards at a fast cruise is wishful thinking.


Genset/AC- I can't live with an air cooled genset on a boat and I suspect that it will be gasoline if air cooled. So a water cooled marine diesel genset like the NextGen 3.5 and A/C for me.


Dinette or Sofa- Definitely sofa. Have you ever tried to read a book sitting at a dinette? I like to lay back, read and when the spirit moves me, take a nap.


Queen bed or V-berth. I had a queen in a Mainship 34T and it was tight getting around. I think I would go for the V-berth, but depends on the execution.


Separate shower or wet- I would give up the room for the separate shower if it made a significant difference in the main salon layout. What are the layout drawings based on?


Electronics- I don't want anything that won't run with all power off. Wireless engine management is just a gimmick to me. Ask Cummins how Smartcraft worked for them.


Trailering- At 6,700 lbs light ship and probably 8,000 lbs loaded, the boat and trailer will weigh at least 10,000 lbs. So it will definitely take a full size pickup. And the beam will require permits. But to be able to truck it to Maine in the summer and Florida in the winter would be nice.


The shallow draft even with a diesel inboard should make it easy to ramp launch. But the shallow draft, planning hull will be a liability in a sea way.


There is a lot that I like with this boat.


David
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:41 PM   #22
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Tad Roberts on #20 post is the only NA onboard for this discussion. He made some interesting observations. If it were me I'd insist on stability issues be finalized first and what type of head later.
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:00 PM   #23
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Donsan:
Quote:
The claimed 16" draft seems almost too good to be true.
We had the same thought, so it will be interesting to see what the final draft of the loaded vessel might be. We expect it to be somewhere between 18 inches and 2 feet fully loaded, which would still be pretty awesome for a 35 foot cruising vessel.
Quote:
There are a lot of advantages in not requiring a shaft, a rudder, cutlass bearings, log tubes, stuffing boxes, seacocks, cooling plumbing and the like. If it were my choice, I would go with the dual 60hp outboards also.
Yes, you are thinking like we are: less maintenance. This is also why we are wondering about an air-cooled reverse cycle air conditioner. If we have no thru-hulls at all, I understand that our insurance costs will go down quite a bit.
Quote:
If you go with the traditional marine genny, you are probably looking at a need for a diesel fuel tank. So you will need both diesel and gasoline on the boat. Putting a gas powered genny in the ER is asking for problems with carbon monoxide. The GH web site and the survey are vague on how they will configure the land based setup which I am guessing is powered by a gas generator. I was wondering where the generator would be located if that is the case (over the cockpit?). I think you need to ask Ken a lot more questions on the genset and AC options.
We have a sailboat friend with a honda gas generator on deck, and she has had no problems, but I still worry about the wind shifting while she is on the hook and asleep.

There is no ER (engine room) on our TT35 (outboards), so maybe you were thinking of the lazarette, and I am not keen on putting a gas genny there because of the fumes and the Florida heat. The upper deck is the only other alternative for locating a gas genny, which then makes me wonder if a gas genny on the upper deck will need its own dedicated gas tank or if it can draw from the outboards' tank. And doesn't the genny need to be placed far away from the air conditioning unit, to prevent carbon monoxide being sucked in by the air cond?

At this point I know I need to talk to Ken, because I do not possess the systems knowledge to figure all this out. This may also be a good time to investigate the fuel cell genny.

If you look at Ken's blog post on the Great Harbour website "Adventurers Wanted," you will see that he is still tinkering with ideas for this boat. We are also studying the potential systems for the boat, i.e. sanitation, air conditioning, holding tanks, genny, stove, etc. This boat is a work in progress, which is why everyone's comments here are so helpful to us. And based on the comments on the marine head, we are now 99% positive that we will order a marine head with holding tank for our boat, mainly because of the humid conditions down here.( I am still laughing over the very apt kitty litter analogy.) I think that the composting heads may work well for younger, more adventurous folks. I also think they are well-suited for the camper boats like the C-dory.

Quote:
Even though your boat will be shallow draft, there are still a places that only provide a dinghy dock for shore access. How will you provision for a dinghy?
I have no idea! This is the one that keep me up at night, because we have a beloved dog.

devorenm:
Quote:
Not to say it isn't a remote possibility but I'd take my chances with a modern, properly installed, monitored gas genset before I fussed with the need for two types of fuel storage onboard.
Thank you so much for this comment! Properly installed and monitored is the key.

Tad Roberts:
Quote:
The published profile and arrangement and specifications don't really match, which is often the case with prototypes.
We felt this way, too, and we also understand that to a certain degree we are the guinea pigs for this new vessel. We were able to take this leap into uncharted territory because of Ken Fickett's impeccable reputation. After spending an afternoon discussing the design with Ken, we became even more convinced that Ken's goal with this vessel aligns perfectly with our goals.
And thank you very much, Tad, for taking the time to look over the specifications on the website. I have always paid close attention to your posts since I began lurking here. Your knowledge is unimpeachable, and I am very grateful that you have taken an interest in this thread.

Some of the specs you saw on the GH website have already changed but the website has not been updated; the specs in our contract are stated as:
LOA 35'10''
LWL 34' 1"
Beam 9'10''
Draft 1'5" (at 7,000#)
Fuel 200 gallons
Water 50 gallons (although there is some discussion about going with 30-gallons water and a watermaker)
Holding 30 gallons

Quote:
We built a 30' x 10' foam-cored twin outboard trailerable cruiser with all the bells and whistles, generator, flying bridge, dinghy, anchor windlass, water pressure, water heater, etc. Design weight was 9500 lbs and she came in over that, heavier outboards, but still. With all that stuff aboard and all the windage, stability became questionable in a lumpy cross sea. Perhaps not dangerous, but worrisome for me.
Wow, I'd like to see that boat. Unless it had massive hp, it sounds very much like a precursor to our new boat.

The first time I saw a photo of a Great Harbour N47 pilothouse, I said to hubby that you could not pay me to climb aboard a vessel that looked so unstable. Then I did more research, and finally stepped aboard one.

Ken's boats are built with stability in mind. Ken's primary philosophy, "heavily laid up solid hull construction combined with a light weight, high strength cored construction for the topsides" has us completely convinced of the stability of this boat for the purposes we intend to use it.

At some point in time we will encounter that "lumpy, cross sea," which we have experienced in our Stamas (also a heavily laid up boat) and then for comfort's sake we will remind ourselves that we are in no hurry, and either turn around or seek a safe harbour. I am the type of navigator who always studies the charts ahead of time before every venture out into unfamiliar waters, and I do not go offshore unless the weather report is outstanding. In my opinion, the best asset on board any boat is the No Hurry To Get There attitude, also known as Safety First.

Sweet Pea
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:07 AM   #24
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David:
Quote:
Engine- I would go for a small, 75 hp diesel like the new Yanmar common rail JH engine. It will make 20 hp per gph as opposed to the outboards which will be lucky to hit 12 hp per gph. That engine should push it nicely along at 8 kts and get 4-5 nm/gal. Expecting 3 nm/gal from outboards at a fast cruise is wishful thinking.
Thank you so much for taking the survey! We almost bought a Camano with a yanmar diesel. But the allure of the lower draft of the TT35 with outboards, and less thru-hull maintenance, overcame the slightly better gas mileage of the yanmar. Will we regret it? We will find out. I am actually more concerned with the durability of the outboards as compared to the diesels.

And if we had gone with the diesel inboard, yes, we would also have a diesel genny. But I'd rather not have two different gas tanks dedicated to two different fuels, so we are looking at the alternatives.

I really appreciate your comments on dinette vs. couch, and I am totally aligned with you on the L-shaped couch for book reading and napping. We have already ordered the L-shaped settee. It was an interesting conversation with Ken, because he prefers the dinette, but I think that was because he envisions children aboard.

Quote:
Queen bed or V-berth. I had a queen in a Mainship 34T and it was tight getting around. I think I would go for the V-berth, but depends on the execution.
I've slept on a v-berth comfortably, and my only question is if there might be more room for lockers with a queen bed. Yet another query for Ken.

Quote:
I would give up the room for the separate shower if it made a significant difference in the main salon layout. What are the layout drawings based on?
I prefer the separate shower myself. The layout drawings are based on the square footage and Ken's design. We could design the interior space totally differently if we wanted to, but I like this design. It covers all of the basics quite well.

Quote:
Electronics- I don't want anything that won't run with all power off. Wireless engine management is just a gimmick to me. Ask Cummins how Smartcraft worked for them.
I'm old-fashioned like you. Give me a steering wheel, throttle, fuel gauge, oil gauge, rpm meter or speed gauge, and let me listen to the music of the engines as I cruise. However, times are changing and Great Harbour is famous for their "glass helm" which Pierce of GH described as coming from aviation, where "conventional cockpit systems are replaced by touch screens." Dan, my amazing husband, is also a computer geek, so I am willing to learn how to use this system. (Also because I will never forget the thrill of my first Garmin electronic chartplotter!) Pierce is also pushing to have the fixed touch screens replaced by tablets on the TT35. I say this as I am typing on my 10-pound laptop while hubby is typing on his 10-oz tablet.

Sweet Pea
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:48 AM   #25
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Old 02-26-2016, 11:34 PM   #26
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On my C-Dory I have a small Honda gas generator for powering a standard window AC unit. The generator goes on the swim step when running. For times of the year when we don't need the AC the whole kit stays home.

The TT35 looks to have a decent sized swim platform that will have plenty of room for a Honda or Yamaha generator. You can either buy one big one or parallel two smaller ones to get the amps you need.

I like the TT35. Although I think that trailerable is a stretch. Yes you can do it, but with a boat that big it is not something most people will do a lot of (IMO).

Right now the price is very good. You get a nicely equipped boat for under $100K (no electronics though). The early ones probably won't make any money. It will be interesting to see what the production price ends up being. A new C-Dory 25 will cost about that much (if not more).
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:10 PM   #27
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Miz T; Good for you, boatbuilders and designers survive on customers that are willing to assist in getting a new product to market.

My comment about the windshield was just that, for me, the helm seat is too close to the windshield glass. I want some distance (min. 18" at eye height) between my eyeball and the glass. Also for me, the helm seat needs to be a lot bigger, 24" fore & aft and 20" wide without arm rests or 26" wide with.

Below are pictures of the 30' x 10' boat I mentioned. Draft at design weight is 19". Her top speed is 32+ knots with twin 200HP Verado outboards. These are about double the weight of your twin 60's on the TT. So that's another 500 lbs, and there are probably 200 lbs in aluminum pipework on the boat.

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Old 02-28-2016, 05:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
Miz T; Good for you, boatbuilders and designers survive on customers that are willing to assist in getting a new product to market.

My comment about the windshield was just that, for me, the helm seat is too close to the windshield glass. I want some distance (min. 18" at eye height) between my eyeball and the glass. Also for me, the helm seat needs to be a lot bigger, 24" fore & aft and 20" wide without arm rests or 26" wide with.

Below are pictures of the 30' x 10' boat I mentioned. Draft at design weight is 19". Her top speed is 32+ knots with twin 200HP Verado outboards. These are about double the weight of your twin 60's on the TT. So that's another 500 lbs, and there are probably 200 lbs in aluminum pipework on the boat.

Attachment 49396

Attachment 49397

Attachment 49399
Will this boat make it to market? It looks like the design is for an offshore fishing boat. I see a lot of rocket launchers. If that is the target market, the big outboards make a lot sense.

How much weight did the flybridge add? Was that part of the original base design?

Just my ignorant 2 cents but it seems like the TT35 is aimed at a different group of potential buyers.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:17 PM   #29
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I like the concept. I hate the flybridge and a bow thruster on a 30' Outboard? I have no doubt this is owner input rather than Designer. "Tad I want a simple , fast o/b cruiser to these specs". Reality is additions, complexity,"must haves" enter. I am willing to bet the original design brief, presented to Tad looks nothing like this launched boat. This is not a critique of the boat, the owners want what they want.
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Old 02-28-2016, 07:53 PM   #30
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Did not intend to sidetrack the subject of this thread, I'll happily take this discussion to a separate thread.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:48 AM   #31
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Tad was responding to two things: 1) my comment about how I would like to see the boat that he designed (that the TT35 reminds him of in certain aspects), and 2) a PM that I sent him asking why he thought the helm needed to be moved back or the windshield forward.

Tad, thank you for the photos of the boat you designed. She is a beauty. Obviously designed to get up and go yet also with living amenities. You packed a lot into a 30-ft boat.

When I look at your initial post on this thread I see that you drew lines from the side view to the bird's-eye view of the TT35, and posted that pic. Thank you for pointing out that the helm was too close to the windshield in that drawing.

Speaking of the main helm, one of the things that we have requested is a "comfortable" helm seat and wheel. Ergonomically designed to be more like an automobile's, where the wheel is above the lap when seated but also so that the chair can be easily pushed back when the captain wishes to stand. This stems from my observation that on the 15 or so boats that my father and I have owned, not a single one of them had a comfortable helm. (I should mention here that my husband and I are both fairly short people, 5'6" and 5'4".)

Any comments on that idea?

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Old 02-29-2016, 08:16 AM   #32
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I think that you will find zero boats set up as you describe with the helm above your lap as in a car. There are several reasons for this:


Boat helms need several turns lock to lock unlike cars


Unlike cars you sometimes need to get up quickly from your seat and stand. A helm sitting in your lap would be too constraining if you had to first move the seat back to do that.


In practice I stand up at the helm when I am in confined spaces so I can see and react better. Otherwise I sit back in the helm seat and operate the autopilot using a remote.


David
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:33 AM   #33
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I had the same thought about the need to get up quickly. Wondered if a swiveling seat would alleviate that.
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:58 PM   #34
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The drawings on the TT35 webpage don't line up between the top view and the side view in a number of places. At this point I would not be making a big deal of the location of the helm vs. the window. Since Great Harbor have built a number of boats, they probably know what is required and will get it right.

Wait 'til they get proper drawings out before getting wound up about it. To me the top view just looks like a quick sketch someone did as to how it might be arranged.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:36 AM   #35
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...
Water 50 gallons (although there is some discussion about going with 30-gallons water and a watermaker)...
Quite minimal if having a freshwater toilet.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:03 AM   #36
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Miz Trom - Have you received any updates on your TT35? Noticed on the Great Harbour web site that production has slipped somewhat.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:27 AM   #37
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:58 AM   #38
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The TT35 looks a lot like the Cargile Cutter to me

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Old 10-14-2016, 10:18 AM   #39
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Old 10-14-2016, 01:51 PM   #40
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My apologies for not posting updates

Hi Donsan:

I apologize for not posting more here in regards to our experiences with buying and building hull #1 of the Great Harbour TT35. A different project I have been working on consumes the majority of my time.

I am puzzled where you might be getting the information that production has slowed. Here are photos from our last several visits, with the most recent visit about a month ago, to the Great Harbour manufacturing plant. Production is moving along quite nicely.

We are getting into the nitty gritty of selecting our electronics right now. We love the Simrad broadband radar (it is safer than the Garmin microwave radar and uses much less power), but are a little concerned with just a few older reports we have seen concerning the reliability of Simrad electronics. But my goodness, broadband radar seems like such a no-brainer. You can hug the radar dome while it is operational, unlike the microwave radars.

This appeals immensely to us because we expect to pilot the boat from the flying bridge for the majority of the time, and a non-microwave-emitting radar mast can be placed anywhere up top, including within a few feet of the captain's chair if we so desire.

Warm Regards to all,
Sweet Pea
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