Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-09-2012, 06:28 AM   #41
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
Do you really need to plan for a hurricane?

That's not the question.

The question is do you really plan on Blue Water distance motoring , where you will require (and pay for) the different build requirements of a rare (1 in 200) genuine offshore boat?
__________________
Advertisement

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 03:36 PM   #42
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilShooter View Post
.....but I am not a big fan of 2 engines - because I will undoubtedly find some shoals in my cruising and it seems to me that most dual engine setups have largely unprotected props and shafts.

Not really true. Most twin diesel cruisers--- like GB---- have a keel that extends down below the props and rudders. So if one goes into shoal water and touches bottom, the keel would touch first just as it would on a single engine boat of the same type.

I can't speak for all cruiser makes, but in the case of the GB-- and I believe a number of others-- the props and rudders are set close enough in to the centerline of the boat that if the boat should go aground and then the tide go out so the boat tips over onto it's side, it will go over until it's resting on the keel and the downside chine. But the props, shafts, and rudders will not touch the bottom--- they will be inside the "triangle" of clear space between the keel, the outboard chine, and the seabed.

So under ideal grounding conditions (if there is such a thing), when the tide comes back in the boat will simply refloat itself assuming the other factors affecting this are in the boat's favor.

I took the photo below on Memorial Day weekend this year at a bay on one of the San Juan islands where we cruise. Big wind came up during the night, his anchor dragged, and he was blown onto these rocks at high tide. Tide went out and here he was the next morning. So far as I know the boat floated free two tides later (the next one wasn't high enough) and while I don't know if the boat was able to proceed under its own power of if there was other damage that required a tow, one way or the other the boat was gone by the time we left the island early that afternoon.

I have no idea if the running gear and rudders sustained any damage when the boat was blown backwards onto these then-submerged rocks, but from what I see in my photo it is conceivable that there wasn't any.

Bottom line being that operating in shallow water is not a reason to not have a twin-engine boat, at least one that is capable of bumping the bottom and not damaging the running gear and rudders.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Drag 1.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	11877  
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #43
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Not really true. Most twin diesel cruisers--- like GB---- have a keel that extends down below the props and rudders. So if one goes into shoal water and touches bottom, the keel would touch first just as it would on a single engine boat of the same type. ...
I contend that a single-engined/propellered boat like this provides much more protection to the shaft, propeller, and rudder:

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #44
Guru
 
City: Pensacola
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 748
That boat aground sure looks like a 40ft Heritage
Blue Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 05:13 PM   #45
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Please see post #2...Mr. G, clairvoyant much????
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 05:56 PM   #46
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Please see post #2...Mr. G, clairvoyant much????
I was just thinking the same thing. Here we go again.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 06:07 PM   #47
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
I contend that a single-engined/propellered boat like this provides much more protection to the shaft, propeller, and rudder:
I think in theory you are correct. Particularly with debris in the water like logs, branches, deadheads, etc.

But with only one exception that I can think of offhand, all the people I know personally who have gotten stuff wound up in their props or have had damage done to their prop or rudder have been single engine boat owners, power and sail. At which point they were dead in the water and had to come home on the end of a rope (none of them are divers so they couldn't free up their props themselves).

The one person I knew with a twin who had debris disable one of his shafts and props had a whirlpool in a rapids launch a huge log up into the bottom of his boat (steel-hulled deFever) where it jammed between the shaft and the hull. While the log eventually popped free the driveline on that side was bent pretty bad, so he came home to Seattle from up north on the other engine.

But I do agree that the risk of picking up damaging debris is higher with a twin engine boat than a single, particularly if the helmsman is not vigilant about looking out for what's in the water ahead of him.

But the point for the original poster, I think, is that as he begins to narrow his list of potential types of boats that will meet his requirements, I don't think he should rule out twin engine boats simply on the basis that they might be more susceptible to running gear damage in shallow water. A lot of them aren't, and this sort of problem usually has to do more with who's driving that how many engines are under the floor.

Not saying singles are a less-than-ideal choice, here, so I'm not trying to start that debate again. Only refuting what I feel is a false assumption on the OP's part that twins are automatically at a disadvantage when cruising in shallower water.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #48
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Heron View Post
That boat aground sure looks like a 40ft Heritage
I don't know what it was. All those "cabin cruiser" style boats look the same to me, and neither my binoculars nor my lens could bring the image in enough to read any sort of brand name on the side if there was one there to read. All I know is the boat was down for the weekend from Canada. I think there was someone on this forum familiar with the boat or at least knew what make and model it is and where it is from.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #49
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. MS. Bear with me please but this happens all the time as per post #2. Not trying to sideline your thread but I can't resist....Mr. Marin. Was the anchor that dragged a Rocna, Bruce or Danforth? Hahahaha....
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 06:55 PM   #50
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. MS. Bear with me please but this happens all the time as per post #2. Not trying to sideline your thread but I can't resist....Mr. Marin. Was the anchor that dragged a Rocna, Bruce or Danforth? Hahahaha....
I agree...lets see how long we can keep going even if the OP doesn't come back...
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #51
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
Let's not, please.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 08:35 PM   #52
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Mr. Marin. Was the anchor that dragged a Rocna, Bruce or Danforth? Hahahaha....
As I reported in the initial post I made about this incident a few days after it happened, I was told the anchor was a Bruce. However these days a lot of people tend to call any sort of claw-type anchor a "Bruce" so I cant tell you with absolute certainty that it was a genuine Bruce or a knockoff.

Perhaps if one of our Canadian members knows the boat he can give us the correct info.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
johnma's Avatar
 
City: Philadelphia
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dreamers Holiday
Vessel Model: Mainship 390
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 322
If the goal is to cross the Atlantic; how often would you want to do it? A true blue water boat that size would be tough to live aboard. (small windows; required for rough seas; small cabins, etc. If the goal is to cruise the Med, fly over and buy or charter a more comfortable coastal cruiser over there. If the goal is just to cruise you can follow the sun up and down the east coast from Canada to the Caribbean and never get tired and do it in a very nice and comfortable 40 footer. True blue water is very scary (watch the Perfect Storm or the Deadliest Catch). I spent a lot of years in the navy on a 450' ship with the bow 50' off of the water and we regularly took blue water over the bow. I have photo's of our ship underway replenishing with the Intreped (this was a long time ago) and their flight deck was awash.
Keep looking; go to the Annapolis boat show in October. They have lots of trawlers there and a lot of them have the owners on board. They love to talk about their boats, where they have cruised, where they want to cruise.
Good luck
John
390 Mainship
johnma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 09:18 PM   #54
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Most twin diesel cruisers--- like GB---- have a keel that extends down below the props and rudders. So if one goes into shoal water and touches bottom, the keel would touch first just as it would on a single engine boat of the same type.
Somehow anchors are getting a mention! I deny any connection to the Bruce anchor;any clawing is purely arthritic.
At the time of purchase our IG36 had symmetrical damage to the keel and both rudders, presumably from a gentle grounding. Props were unaffected.Maybe the keel touched first and settled, bringing the rudders into contact with the bottom,I have not measured the respective depths. Having rudder and prop protected as on many single engine boats is a plus, but so is having twin engines. As in life,there are pluses and minuses, you make a choice. BruceK
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 09:30 PM   #55
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1 View Post
Let's not, please.
See..it's already started a life of it's own...
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 10:35 PM   #56
Member
 
City: Chesapeake
Country: USA
Vessel Name: NoneYet
Vessel Model: Who knows?
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1 View Post
<snipped>
Once again, please accept our apology and we hope that you decide to remain with us.

Tom-
Thanks, Tom, for your effort and welcome. As I mentioned to you earlier, I actually learned some useful information while I was set ablaze.

I accept your offer to stick around.

To All:
I think I made a mistake of jumping-in too fast and too hard, without surveying the climate here. What the responders didn't remember, even though I stated it plainly, was that I propose to spend the next 5 years or so doing my cruising in the Chesapeake, Coastal Florida, and the Bahamas and also taking many courses to enhance my knowledge and skillset. Only when I achieve proficiency will I seriously consider or plan for any ocean crossing. And, for those who question my "crossing alone" sanity, I intend to have a crew for anything I'm not comfortable with and that includes crossings. My coastal cruising will be solo.

Further, most respondents didn't know (I did not give enough details of my experience) that, while I've never owned a "big boat", I cruised the Chesapeake (and ICW to Stuart), and some of the Bahamas on others' boats as well as my own runabout. I was young, but my parents supported my desire at 14 years old, to buy a boat and spend entire summers on it until I entered the Army at 18. Long ago, I took several Power Squadron courses on seamanship, handling, navigation, and emergency medicine. I learned celestial navigation using a sextant although today, with the GPS systems available, I'll probably not need it in the future.

As to my fear of hurricanes, and the ability today to run from them, I had a bad experience in early September 1979 aboard a friend's fairly new GB (it was a wooden boat but I don't remember its vintage). Stupidly, my friend decided that the oncoming storm would pass to our south, especially after it began to weaken and forecasters generally agreed that it would continue below Cuba and hit Mexico, so we remained in the Bahamas. Bad choice - the storm (it was named Dave if my memory is correct) turned north to find us anchored-out is a sheltered mooring, but we got hammered. I was young and indestructible at the time. But it left me with a mark - so I am cautious when it comes to hurricanes. I don't think I can change my feelings just because forecasting is better now... the forecasters aren't infallible and I don't want to lose my boat. I almost forgot - I rode-out another hurricane that affected the Chesapeake on my runabout. I think it was in 1971. Sorry, but I am still afraid of them.

Anyway, this posting got too long. I'm going to quietly look around and read for a while before stubbing my toes again.

To characterize my observations of this thread, I'd just say that some people didn't yet know me or my experiences. From that comes misunderstanding and assumptions.

If anyone has a question for me, I'll try to answer it. I am still working at defining my goals and my future boat. Like anything, they're adjustable. I have one request: if I've made a bad assumption based on your knowledge, don't just jump on me and say things like "your mind is already made up" or "you're crazy to worry about hurricanes" when you haven't walked in my shoes, experienced my life, or read my mind. I don't mind being wrong - I just want to know WHY I'm wrong. You'll find I'm actually a good student. And please remember that facts are different than opinions.

And I haven't decided on anything yet.

Gary
MilShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 11:15 PM   #57
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
And let me take this opportunity to do something that was pointed out to me and we were all guilty of overlooking ---

WELCOME TO THE TRAWLER FORUM!!!


Tom-

P.S. I will also apologize as I feel like I made some uneducated assumptions in my reply to your questions too. Thanks for coming back and taking the time to tell us about yourself.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 11:48 PM   #58
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Gary--- Every person on this forum started out not knowing anything about boats or boating. So we've all learned in some way or another.

You actually have more experience on the water under your belt than a lot of people who desire to get into cruising. So for you, the decision is more what type of boat to get and when, not so much whether or not it's a good idea for you to pursue in the first place.

We all approach things based on past experiences. I grew up in Hawaii and until I moved here (PNW) all my boating experience was in the open ocean except for a summer of lake experience on Michigan and Superior and wee bit of river experience in another part of the world. While I enjoyed the blue water fishing and sailing at the time, I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt on that kind of boating and I have no desire whatsoever to ever do it again. My idea of boating heaven is the inside salt water of NW Washington, British Columbia, and SE Alaska. So everything my wife and I do in boating is geared toward that specific part of the world and the boats we have are designed perfectly for that kind of water.

If someone held a gun to may head and said I had to boat on the east coast or the gulf or they'd pull the trigger I'd be afraid of hurricanes, too, and what to do with our larger boat if one happened along. I'm forever thankful I had no desire to live in that part of the country and so don't have to deal with that particular problem. But I can certainly sympathize with your concern.

From your stated plan of spending the next several years cruising the coastal waters of the east coast before tackling something bigger, I wonder if the notion that my good friend Carey suggested earlier in this thread is the way to go: starting out with a good but smaller boat of the basic type you are drawn to--- single engine displacement of which the Willard is a prime example-- and doing your solo coastal cruising in that.

Willards were made in several sizes--- I think the smallest is 30 feet but I've seen some really neat models that are in the mid to upper 30s in length--- and there are other boat makes that might meet your requirements as well. Eric Henning of this forum just brought his 30' Willard from his previous home in SE Alaska down the Passage to his new home here in Washington. So these boats are certainly capable of some impressive cruises.

The nice thing about acquiring a smaller boat like a Willard at this point is that you won't be into the boat for a ton of money, which should mean that a buyer later on won't have to cough up a ton of money to buy it from you, and its lower ownership costs should allow you to put more funds toward a larger boat should you reach that stage in your boating adventures.

But the bottom line is there is no formula or set path for getting into cruising. It's an evolutionary path and everyone's is different. So don't take all the advice and and "you should's" on forums like this too seriously. There will be some suggestions that are worth noting but in the end it will be something that you will work out one step at a time.

Most of us got into boating before there was an internet, or at least before there were forums like this one. In some ways, maybe we had it better as we weren't being bombarded with opinionated suggestions from people we'd never heard of and who we had no idea if they knew what they were talking about or not. So we tried this and tried that and talked to people we met in person along the way and followed our instinct and logic and common sense and here we are.

So maybe the thing to do is duplicate that "old time" learning curve. Turn off the wifi, turn off the computer, turn the sound down on all the the digital "help" you're getting, and just start exploring your idea. Information is great, but too much information more often than not leads to confusion, indecision, and ultimately, inaction. Which is not how you get anything done, let alone pursue a dream.

I made up my mind to move from Hawaii to the Pacific Northwest while standing on the aft deck of the BC ferry Queen of Prince Rupert in August, 1977 at the top of the Inside Passage when the fog burned off and revealed an amazing landscape of mountains, waterfalls, islands, and incredible green saltwater channels teeming with life.. I didn't ask anyone's advice about moving. I didn't ask for reviews about moving. I didn't ask anyone the best way to get into moving. I didn't ask anyone how I should move or what kind of packing crate was best, mahogany or pine. I weighed the pros and cons in my mind, felt that my gut told me it was the right decision, and did it.

I'm wondering if maybe that's what you need to do with regards to your desire to take up cruising.



Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3157783980.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	11881
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:07 AM   #59
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
I have limited "blue water" exerience (transoceanic) to cruise ships. Much more comfortable, particularly in 50-plus-foot waves.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:20 AM   #60
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
Gary, I know less now than I thought I new when I joined this forum. The advice here has been very helpful to me and I hope it helps you on your quest. I kinda fell in my boat so there was no choice in the matter. It burned and it was cheep and big..Long story short. I don't envy the choices your going to have to make to purchase your first vessel. Sorry if I made assumptions about you and your wants and needs. Welcome and good luck.
__________________

swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012