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Old 08-12-2013, 08:15 AM   #1
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Post Hello!

Well, the time has arrived when I need to start thinking about retirement, 40 years of travelling and living on several Continents. Originally from UK but now settled in Cascais near Lisbon, Portugal.
some thirty years ago I messed around with power boats, nothing more than 37ft but in some challenging weather in the English Chanel.

So today I think that I could live aboard for most of the year and travel, ( I have a truck rigged for Africa Expeditions) a little when winter comes.
So now I have a lot of learning to do!, so far I like Trawlers around 49/50ft, Marine Trader seems to fit the bill. I can make a living by Broadband so that's first consideration, a small office in the saloon would suit, a sizeable aft cabin and a decent sized Galley, again in the Saloon area. Speed is unimportant as long as it can safely make passage up to UK very occasionally.I am single but have a good circle of friends so maybe accommodation in the Saloon and one forward cabin. Financially, I think I have around 180,000 euros but should I buy and fix up or find ( and pay more for) a boat already fixed?. Obviously a lot more considerations but once I can framework the type of boat/model etc, I can get down to the detail.
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:48 AM   #2
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Welcome and it’s good to see you have this relatively well thought out about your needs and wants.
I can’t comment on Marine Traders, but I did look at a number of trawler type boats in the last two years, mostly in the Netherlands. They were expensive, but did have layouts like you desire and good range, though not as good as I needed.

Good Luck
Richard
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:49 PM   #3
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Welcome, Some years ago I visited a friend who was living in Cascais, it's a beautuful area.
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:01 PM   #4
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Yes

Hi, Steve,
yes it is, having lived in places like Cape Town I was spoiled and couldn't find somewhere beautiful, with superb weather, fun,safe and with great coastline, then I found Cascais and The Silver Coast, Thankfully mass tourism has not discovered Cascais yet!.
Anywhere in Europe is within a two hour flight or by road still easy to get to, There are a few Americans here with boats (4), they love it!,
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:49 PM   #5
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Welcome aboard. One of the great experiences of my life (although my wife laughed at it being such a big thing to me) was standing on a cliff overlooking the Atlantic in Portugal with a little nondescript sign behind me which said "Westernmost point of Europe!" Of England, France, and Portugal, I liked Portugal best. So I envy you!

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Old 08-12-2013, 06:53 PM   #6
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Hi John,
yes, I was there yesterday, still lovely, this place is so laid back, thank you for the welcome,
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:06 PM   #7
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Welcome aboard Chris. I have a Marine Trader 44', 1978. I bought her some years back for $50K US and have put about $10K into repairs/improvements. She's a good, solid, honest, well-equipped boat with accommodations which seem to match your needs. Her old teak decks have been removed and professionally glassed over by a previous owner. From shopping around prior to my purchase, I found that there are many such vessels available in the SE USA at comparable prices. You may find it economically worth your while to shop for one in the States, and ship your purchase over to the UK or wherever as your jumping off point. Best of luck mate, and welcome aboard!
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:26 AM   #8
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Hi, Captain,
thank you for this advice, yes, I did some research and the Marine Trader seemed to offer much of what I am looking for and yes, buying in the US is an option,higher spec boats and cheaper than Europe. Also I looked at having any work done in the USA before bringing to Europe, again much cheaper than Europe. Gibraltar has changed its boat registration offering and now ,if you you register the boat there they give you any taxes you paid on the boat back, in Europe that could be a return of 23% of the boat price, quite attractive.
It is really helpful to have these comments from you Guys who know what you are doing, thank you,
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:52 AM   #9
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard. The MT is a nice boat. The only comment I would have about importing a boat from North America to Europe would be that the electrical systems and appliances will have to be adapted or changed. I seem to remember a thread or two where that "problem" was discussed.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:25 AM   #10
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I sold my previous boat, a Camano, to a Swede, there was the matter of CE (European Community) certification on the boat and it's components. There are companies in the US who can do this or in his case he had it taken care of over there. I believe the cost of this certification is something to know going in.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:52 AM   #11
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Thanks RT & Steve, yes, I was aware of the electrics, same problem, same for the Guys buying RV's and importing them,there are people that do the conversion but I will research the costs etc. The issue with the certification was not on my list, a very good point, known as the CE Mark, conformance to safety regulations etc, I will add that to my list as well. You Guys are so helpful, thank you for taking the interest and time to help,
Kind Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:25 AM   #12
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Update

Taking into consideration all the helpful comments, I have now spent some time researching to find solutions and compromises.

For the type of entertaining I would like to do, the galley up is somewhat of a "must",I can cook and chat to the guests. Cost/running cost/mooring fees. etc comes down to a 44ft boat.
The Sundeck concept is also better for the type of cruising envisaged. Therefore the current choice is a Defever, 44ft Sundeck Trawler, probably 1987-90, twin Lehman's. Best to try and find one already in Europe ,certified to EU/CE, with 220v electrics.

Some years ago when researching what type of 4x4 truck would be best for North Africa trips, a newish truck or an older cheaper truck, I bought an old truck and had a body off,chassis up rebuild at the local Mitsubishi Dealer, this dealer was based in the mountains of Portugal and still retained real old fashioned craftsmen. Over six months they rebuilt the truck, worked out half the cost of a nearly new truck and 8 years later it is still going to North Africa and has never had any problems.

So maybe find a boat that needs some TLC at a fair price and have it rebuilt in one of the small harbours here in Portugal, gives much needed work for the Village craftsmen and could work out better and cheaper than buying a boat in "better" condition.
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:34 AM   #13
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Dear Dick*
By the way I luv the name.
so self effacing
When looking at De Fevers, don't go past the 48/50 raised pilot house vessels and others of the same type build.
Some with lower horse power would be ideal for what you want.
Cheers
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:55 AM   #14
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Chris

Some thoughts for you to consider. These are my opinions so others and you may differ:

In the current down market for boats you can purchase the boat your want/need cheaper than buying a boat which needs work or upgrades and fixing it up.

Consider some of the major items and determine what is appropriate to your needs before you go shopping and find a boat you love:

Electrical: We spend our time in the Caribbean where there is a mixture of European 220 volt and North American 220 / 110 volt boats. This is a constant issue of difficulty for all the boats as the two systems and their parts are incompatible. To test the difficulty try buying a 110 volt toaster or cell phone charger in Europe.

People who have tried to convert the boats have found that the costs and difficulties mount and generally just avoid the issue and live with the difficulties.






Unless you are coming to the Caribbean or North America I suggest you stay with a European 220 volt boat and not try and convert. Almost every aspect of the wiring and equipment would have to be changed in the long run. The killer would be the different hertz.

A second item of major concern is whether or not you need stabilization active or passive. If you will be crossing the Bay of Biscay every now and then you need to talk with others who have done this with a trawler and determine if you are going to need stabilization. The cost to have this added will be 25.000 to 30.000 Euros. Better to buy a boat with stabilization.

Single engine versus twin engines and size of engine. The safety, convenience and costs involved in the twin versus single engine debate will be discussed forever. However, with diesel at 1.5 Euro a liter the cost difference is significant for most of us.

Heat / air conditioning With your plans to go the UK you should consider a boat which has a diesel heating system rather than going through the considerable expense of having a system added on a trawler.

Hull, the Marine Trader is a semi-displacement hull. I would check around with others who have made the Portugal to UK trip to determine if a semi-displacement hull, versus a full displacement hull is comfortable and safe.

What you need is a cruising boat that someone else has set up for the western coast of Europe.

Good luck, the rule is buy the boat you need for what you are going to use if for
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:41 AM   #15
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Thank you

Hi, Bay,
once again very good ,well thought out advice and certainly going to adjust my specification/wish list.
Your advice confirms my thinking, find a boat already set up for European Western Coast Cruising. Electrics already 220v, heating,already right for our winters ( and Summers!) however, need to have a/c for home waters in South Portugal & The Algarve.
My friend has just brought a 62ft Princess V Class across the Bay of Biscay, it has stabilizers etc, even in high summer he had a tough time. I come from Brighton on the south coast of UK, therefore would do the short crossing to Dieppe then down the French Coast and hug that to Santander in Spain.

BTW, by law electrical tools used on UK construction sites is 110v, so easy to buy a step down unit cheaply, just connect 220 to unit and feed in 110v to boat, RV etc, then run as normal.

Thank you and thanks Tidahapa, my screen name is very accurate!, at least according to the last few women in my life!,
Regards,
Chris.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tidahapah View Post
Dear Dick*
By the way I luv the name. so self effacing...
Cheers
Benn
I was wondering when someone was going to connect the dots on Chris' screen name.

Welcome Chris. Good luck on your hunt.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:30 AM   #17
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Hi,Fly,

sometimes takes awhile!, thanks for the welcome,
Regards,
Chris.
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