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Old 07-03-2014, 02:25 PM   #21
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With your young family, going for a cockpit style boat rather than an aft cabin is probably wise. The aft cabins offer lots of interior room but at the expense of deck space and easy access to the water via a transom door. Also an important consideration, especially on waterways like the Rideau and Trent-Severn with dozens of locks, is the ease of moving around on deck to tend lines and anchor. Good footing and stout handrails are a big plus.
I haven't seen a site that compiles layouts from different manufacturers, but there isn't much variation possible other than galley up/down, and a dinette vs a hi/low table. Most trawlers appear to have ample storage, and decent sized berths. Some features on our boat, like the wide walk-arounds and moulded steps to the flybridge, really eat up a lot of space, but make the boat a joy to travel in. Folks who like to be in a marina most of the time may not want to trade off the interior space.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #22
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Welcome Sylvain, I am sure you should see lots of trawlers along the Rideau in the summer as well as around Gananoque and the Thousand Islands. If you come up the Trent or come for a ride to the Lake Simcoe area give us a shout. We love company. Good luck in your seach.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:25 PM   #23
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Nick,

You have confirmed my initial direction in selection. I want to be and want the kids to be outside as much as possible - so a good aft and upper deck are important. Kids will want to swim and be in the water so an easy access back aboard is a must. A transom door would be awesome, but may not be on the boat in my price range. I agree on the line handling areas and walkarounds too.

I'm not sure as to the pros and cons of the galley up/down nor am I familiar with a hi-low table so I can't compare to a dinette.


Allan & Ann,

That is a beautiful area. I have a sister in Barrie and I used to live in Penetanguishene when I was younger - I should plan a trip that way and perhaps take a peek at your fine vessel.

Thanks so much for the invitation - you may well hear from me, if things pan out.

Sylvain
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:38 PM   #24
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Sylvain, we to wanted a walk thru transom door but obviously all boats don't come with them. One alternative was a good boarding ladder with grab rails. Makes it easy for all the grand kids. You will find a lot of gives and takes in boats so start making a list if you haven't already on want things are essential and what are nice to haves.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:50 AM   #25
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Sylvain, we to wanted a walk thru transom door but obviously all boats don't come with them. One alternative was a good boarding ladder with grab rails. Makes it easy for all the grand kids. You will find a lot of gives and takes in boats so start making a list if you haven't already on want things are essential and what are nice to haves.
That's a great setup and I too would do something similar as an alternative to a transom door.

I've started to compile a list of things to consider, not so much classified in essential and nice-to-haves. I found a couple of lists from in the posts here and that is my basis. I'll continue to read the forum to see if others have posted similar lists. It would be a good thing to have a list of options compiled somewhere. Then, the debate on the value of each option can begin.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:47 PM   #26
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[QUOTE=taime1;247271]Nick,


I'm not sure as to the pros and cons of the galley up/down nor am I familiar with a hi-low table so I can't compare to a dinette.


Sylvain, I believe some boats were offered in both galley up and galley down versions. Up if you need more cabin space below (plus the personal choice of cooking with a view), down for a larger salon. The hi-lo table is one that converts from coffee table height to dining table height. Ours is moveable (weighted in the base), and has a hydraulic piston as an assist to raise and lower. The plus side is there's more room in the salon when there's no dedicated dinette, the downside is having to secure the table if the going gets rough!
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:57 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=tachyon;247380
Sylvain, I believe some boats were offered in both galley up and galley down versions. Up if you need more cabin space below (plus the personal choice of cooking with a view), down for a larger salon. The hi-lo table is one that converts from coffee table height to dining table height. Ours is moveable (weighted in the base), and has a hydraulic piston as an assist to raise and lower. The plus side is there's more room in the salon when there's no dedicated dinette, the downside is having to secure the table if the going gets rough! [/QUOTE]

Thanks Nick - I'm just reading a interesting thread on the galley up vs down thing. After reading, tabulating and analysing I've got the definitive answer: it depends. The galley question, will likely not be a make or break for us. It'll have to do with the rest of the boat, its layout and the love factor when we get there. Unless of course, the admiral makes it a hard requirement, then all bets are off.

The hi-lo table is an interesting concept. At first I was thinking it was a table that converted to a bed, like many sailboats have. It never occurred to me that living space could be modified in this way to change the room function. Quite clever, I must say.

I think we ultimately need to get out an look at some boats to have a true idea as to what space and its various configurations tangibly look like.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:39 PM   #28
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If you are only planning locking and lakes, maybe have a look at a houseboat? Tons of room, the amenities you want, plenty of outdoor space and no slower than a trawler while locking. Just an idea as you don't have much dosh and a houseboat would have simple systems. You could probably drag it up on a beach for the winter and if it was level, it would make a nice winter cabin! Lots of houseboats have outboards so you could take the motor home for winter maintenance.

We would still talk to you if you bought a houseboat!
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:11 PM   #29
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If you are only planning locking and lakes, maybe have a look at a houseboat? Tons of room, the amenities you want, plenty of outdoor space and no slower than a trawler while locking.

We would still talk to you if you bought a houseboat!
I appreciate the sentiment and thought - but I don't think I could do houseboat. I have nothing against them per se, just not my thing. I'll keep my sailboat or upgrade to a bigger one well before I'd go houseboat.

But, you do make a good point, it would probably do most of what I want to do with it in the short-term. I do want to travel to and around Lake Ontario, Georgian Bay, and wherever else in between that can be done in a few weeks to a month of time - so that might preclude houseboat. The rest of the time, it would be a floating cottage in sheltered waters, much like a houseboat.

I think I can still find something suitable at a low cost that is a "saltier" boat. I'm only in the early stages of searching but have seen a few potential contenders, albeit only virtually. It may take me a while and who knows, maybe I will ultimately have to give up on the idea...and settle for a houseboat.

I am willing to travel south (or any direction for that matter!) to get it, having done that before, but not for such a big boat. I only had to trailer my 26-foot boat back from Cape Cod the last time. It was fun.

Anyway, for now, I am excluding houseboats from my list of potential future acquisitions.
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:24 PM   #30
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Sylvain,

You've got some great cruising area up there. My family and I were up there in 2000. Ontario and Kingston are still our favorite cities. As for the boat suggestion,
take a look at the Marine Trader 34. It's available in multiple configurations, made for years, family friendly, multiple price points and certainly rewards DIY owners. Here is what they look like...welcome2
Mine is not for sale.
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:53 PM   #31
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Hey Sylvain

One you might want to look at is the Bayliner 32. I know it's not considered a real trawler by the hard core aficionado's but they're a pretty sturdy basic boat with two cabin layout. My buddy has the 38' version and it's been a good boat for him and his family.

Bayliner 32xx.com

They can be had for a reasonable price and the models with the Hino diesels are reliable and relatively economical to operate.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:32 PM   #32
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I know someone in Canada with a 40' Canoe Cove for sale. The boat is in Ontario, and has an aft cabin with a cockpit. So, it could be the best of both worlds. The owner is mechanically inclined, and the boat seems in top notch shape. If this is something of interest to you, send me a private message. I will give you their contact info. They are just great people.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:09 PM   #33
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Sylvain,

As for the boat suggestion,take a look at the Marine Trader 34. It's available in multiple configurations, made for years, family friendly, multiple price points and certainly rewards DIY owners.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into that - I was originally thinking something a bit bigger, in the 40's, but I won't know until I see it.

I would love to do a trip like the one you describe in your link. How long did it take you? Was the 34-footer big enough for the three of you? We are four, but they are still small now. I could find something a bit smaller and perhaps with more universal appeal, fix it up and sell it for the asking price of the next boat.

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Hey Sylvain

One you might want to look at is the Bayliner 32. I know it's not considered a real trawler by the hard core aficionado's but they're a pretty sturdy basic boat with two cabin layout. My buddy has the 38' version and it's been a good boat for him and his family.They can be had for a reasonable price and the models with the Hino diesels are reliable and relatively economical to operate.
People often poo-poo Bayliners, but I like them. I can understand how some may feel a mass-production boat builder equates to lesser quality, or javex bottle designs. But, I think they make a pretty good product at a pretty good price. It's similar to the origian Volkswagon. I'm no expert on Bayliners, I've only been on one once, but I'm all for a builder that helps remove the financial barrier to getting out on the water.


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I know someone in Canada with a 40' Canoe Cove for sale. The boat is in Ontario, and has an aft cabin with a cockpit. So, it could be the best of both worlds. The owner is mechanically inclined, and the boat seems in top notch shape. If this is something of interest to you, send me a private message. I will give you their contact info. They are just great people.
Thanks Moonstruck - yes, I will be in touch with you. I'd be happy to take a look and get some more information.

Wow, this forum and its people are great. Thanks so much!
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:01 AM   #34
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You might want to check this one out Sylvain. I'm familiar with the owner. The boat is extremely well cared for.

Searching for C-Shels: 1989 Tollycraft 34 Sport Sedan For Sale
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:33 AM   #35
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You might want to check this one out Sylvain. I'm familiar with the owner. The boat is extremely well cared for.

Searching for C-Shels: 1989 Tollycraft 34 Sport Sedan For Sale
That's a nice looking vessel. But, I think I want to stay away from gasoline engines, if only for the fuel consumption.

I am undecided on the single vs. twin and how critical thrusters are for me. I'm not sure how feasible ($$) it is to add thrusters, bow and/or stern, if they are indeed critical.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:38 AM   #36
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That's a nice looking vessel. But, I think I want to stay away from gasoline engines, if only for the fuel consumption.

I am undecided on the single vs. twin and how critical thrusters are for me. I'm not sure how feasible ($$) it is to add thrusters, bow and/or stern, if they are indeed critical.
I agree on the gas engines. Twin 454's will suck it up quickly if you want to put the hammer down. If you just want to putter the Rideau it's not that big a deal.

Thrusters aren't critical. If you can't handle a boat they won't make you a good boat handler. If you're a good boat handler they'll make you a great boat handler. Twins are easier to handle than a single screw once you learn how. Retrofitting a thruster is a job for pro's and can be pricey.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:15 AM   #37
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That's a nice looking vessel. But, I think I want to stay away from gasoline engines, if only for the fuel consumption.

I am undecided on the single vs. twin and how critical thrusters are for me. I'm not sure how feasible ($$) it is to add thrusters, bow and/or stern, if they are indeed critical.
I prefer diesel myself on the other hand as observed if you cruise at hull speed, around 6-7 knots fuel consumption is low irrespective of engine type. Another factor is where you cruise, for example the loop of Montreal to Kingston and back via the Rideau canal and Ottawa river, gas is available at almost all marinas, diesel not so much! Diesel engines are safer and have a longer service life. OTOH replacement or rebuilds are more costly than gas engines.

Forget about adding thrusters - not in your budget for sure. There is a nice 2005 Mainship advertised on this forum as opf June 29 which might be worth a look. Enjoy the search.


Enjoy the search!
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:55 AM   #38
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Greetings,
Mr. t1. There are several threads dealing with the "economy" of gas vs. diesel and IF you're mainly cruising the canals, it may not be such a bad idea to seriously consider gas power. As Mr. SK mentions, if you're "light on the foot" and are willing to "putter about", gas may be a viable option.
The boat posted my Mr. SK shows really well AND it is a fresh water vessel. ER looks clean and organized which is MY main criteria for judging the care and maintenance of a boat. Shallow draft and low height for bridge clearances. How about that nice big cockpit for the kids? 1200 hrs is quite low as well.
MANY more mechanics are familiar with marine gas engines and depending on the diesel you might pick, parts and service for the gas might be more readily available and cheaper.
Thrusters? Even with a single, not worth the $$ IMO. The single engine handling learning curve is pretty steep and twins????? Quite maneuverable.
With any vessel you may be considering, ask to see maintenance records.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:59 AM   #39
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Choices, choices!

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That's a nice looking vessel. But, I think I want to stay away from gasoline engines, if only for the fuel consumption.

I am undecided on the single vs. twin and how critical thrusters are for me. I'm not sure how feasible ($$) it is to add thrusters, bow and/or stern, if they are indeed critical.
The gas vs diesel question is a tough one. We have a single diesel (Cummins 330) and love it so I suppose I'm biased, but I don't know one boat owner with diesel(s) wanting to go back to a gas boat. Plenty of them the other way around, though. We get about 3 NMPG at 7-8 kts cruise, most owners of gas twins tell me they get around 1 at the same cruise.
A bow thruster on a single engine boat is great, it can get you out of trouble in a windy, tight marina etc, but it's not a must-have. I try not to use it unless I have to, because one day I'm sure I'll hit that button and it won't work! A few years ago I replaced the original rudder with an articulated one, and that improved the handling of the boat enormously. Almost like adding a stern thruster, without any maintenance issues.
So many choices, Sylvain, but as you said previously, the boat you get will be
the one you both fall in love with right away. Took us 5min after stepping aboard to decide this was the right boat for us.

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Old 07-05-2014, 10:37 PM   #40
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Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into that - I was originally thinking something a bit bigger, in the 40's, but I won't know until I see it.



I would love to do a trip like the one you describe in your link. How long did it take you? Was the 34-footer big enough for the three of you? We are four, but they are still small now. I could find something a bit smaller and perhaps with more universal appeal, fix it up and sell it for the asking price of the next boat.



Sylvian,

34' is too big when trying to pull into a slip and too small when bouncing around in 5-7 footers off the Jersey coast. It was just the right size for us 3 and the canals. We never had stay-over guests during the trip - but plenty of visitors. There were enough places for us to get together when we wanted to and enough places to hide when we were sick of looking at each other. 2000 was one of the rainiest summers on record. After a few weeks we just locked through in bathing suits. It was also one of the coolest so we didn't miss the air conditioning.

At 34' we were almost always the largest boat on the canals and yet were just small enough to get into the smaller marinas and through some of the tighter and lower areas that larger boats would have to give a miss. There are a few spots on the Rideau that if she was 34.5' I don't think we would have made it. The MT is so funky and friendly that everyone stops to chat, offer to help, give rides, translate, find free dockage, gave Yacht club invitations. Larger boats - not so much. Bicycles on the flybridge were also a great ice breaker and got us at least one free night's dockage.

It took way longer to plan the trip than take it. Planning started in December and we left on July 5th (late as usual). We had to be back by September 1st for the start of middle school. We had postponed this trip since 1993. Lots of things had to fall into place one of which was our daughter had to be old enough to understand it and not old enough to hate it.

Yeah we planned on selling the boat when we got back. Good luck with that one. It would be like selling your mother. Every time I mentioned it everyone broke down in tears. Eventually I stopped. We'll be buried in her.

The trip changed all our lives. My wife went back to the re-insurance company as the woman who "sailed around the world". Her book of business is Ocean Marine - and she actually understands it. My daughter went to college in the town she liked so much on the trip, Troy NY. I have heard that the trip has been the topic of numerous essays and themes. (not that I every saw one) I spent a year as a Yacht Broker (never again) and taught hands-on boat handling. Yeah me - the clown who would do anything not to have to dock in front of a crowd. I also had a lot of good stories for the USCGAUX boating classes I taught for the next 10 years. My career did take a hit. Not that I minded - I'd still rather be plotting the day's course than designing software. I just have to keep the whole "trip" thing on the down low. The geeks don't get it.

Wow. It's been 14 years and it's just yesterday. We retire in a year or so and we are going to start retirement with another trip. Then we're going to sell her. For sure.
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