Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-15-2018, 08:12 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Ahoy Alaskan

Dear all,

We are new to this forum and we are from the Netherlands. Right now we are sailing around the world and when we are finished we like to trade for a motortrawler. Just now I am focused on the Alaskan 49 for its lines, fuel capacity and economic engines. We don't have to go fast.
Just in a orientating fase now but you never know what we will pass.
Right now we have a Beneteau Oceanis 44 CC Clipper. Not a traditional but still a fine ship.
I owned many traditional sailing ships and that is where my heart goes.
Hope to read experiences of others on this site.
Kind regards,

John
__________________
Advertisement

Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 10:04 AM   #2
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas/Portland
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,401
Welcome to the Clan! After a few more posts you can post some pic’s and its expected, especially with all the snotty weather we are having here around the USA.
Cheers and be safe!
__________________

Crusty Chief is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 11:16 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,827
Versch
Do you have a fuel range in mind for a trawler purchase? How about cruising grounds? Do you want a blue water class and rated vessel? Electric voltages for NA different than Europe so lots to consider.

Sailboats with sufficient tankage are very good trawler substitutes in light wind areas. You may have a hard to beat vessel right now. Good luck.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 11:35 AM   #4
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Hi Sunchaser,

I know it all. We are still navigating the world.
Investigating the possibilities for future because we are getting older and don't want to pull on lines anymore. Cruising ground can be everywhere. We are not bonded to the Netherlands and like to explore the US as well. Only the boat needs to have a good actiradius when we like to bring her to Europe sometimes.
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 12:00 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verschuijten View Post
Hi Sunchaser,

I know it all. We are still navigating the world.
Investigating the possibilities for future because we are getting older and don't want to pull on lines anymore. Cruising ground can be everywhere. We are not bonded to the Netherlands and like to explore the US as well. Only the boat needs to have a good actiradius when we like to bring her to Europe sometimes.
For your cruising desires, first recommendation would be a Nordhavn 52. For less $$ a well tended N47 is capable but most are getting long in the tooth with necessarily higher maintenance. Read James Hamilton's M/V Dirona blog site for lots of N52 details.

But budget intrudes, which is one of the reasons I like Nordhavns. They hold "some" of their value and re-sale fairly quickly. Have you considered a Buehler?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 01:38 PM   #6
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,568
Welcome.

Going from a blow boat to a "stink pot" boat. There is a God!!! Here I thought John was calling me..... Crusty is right. We love pics, so post a few of your adventures.

Yacht World maybe a resource for you too....Safe travels
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 02:23 PM   #7
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Nice boat but not in my budget
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 04:50 PM   #8
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,162
Welcome aboard.
Comodave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 05:03 PM   #9
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,581
With all due respect I am not sure that the Alaskan 49 that you are interested in can handle blue water conditions. Yes it has a lot of fuel tankage. But here are some criteria to consider:

1. Hull ballast (not sure this boat has any)
2. Windows that can withstand slugs of blue water
3. Engine ventilation that will let it withstand significant heeling without downflooding
4. Doors that can withstand significant heeling.

The list goes on and on.

As nice as Alaskan's are I think they are really coastal cruisers. But join the Grand Banks owner forum and ask Bob Lowe. He owns or used to own an Alaskan and is a retired boat yard owner.

In general there are lots of sailboats like your Beneteau that can handle blue water passages, but few trawlers can.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 09:57 PM   #10
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Thank you for your considerations
I am still investigating. What do you recommend and on what basis?
Kind regards, John
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 02:59 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
swordfish's Avatar
 
City: Den Helder
Country: Netherlands
Vessel Name: zwaardvis
Vessel Model: albin 33
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 87
Hey John,

Never thought I would come across you again. apparently you are smarter than you look. for switching to a real boat
Nice to hear from you again, how is it to sail around the world?

kind regards to you and Asha

Martijn
(John and I know each other from the navy and have often met at the marina before leaving for his trip around the world)

----------------------------------
Hey John,

Nooit gedacht dat ik jou hier nog eens tegen zou komen. blijkbaar ben je toch slimmer dan je eruitziet om straks over te stappen naar een echte boot
Leuk om weer eens wat van je te horen, hoe gaat het met je wereldreis??

vriendelijke groet aan jou en Asha

Martijn


(john en ik kennen elkaar van de marine en zijn elkaar vaak tegen gekomen op de jachthaven voor zijn vertrek voor zijn wereldreis)
swordfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 08:30 AM   #12
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Hi Martijn,

Good to hear from you, also not expected to meet you on this forum. We are still underway with our sailboat, currently in the caribbean. We are still enjoying the sailing and circumnavigating. But we are orientating for a trawler for later. How is your life going?
Hope all is well.
Greetz, John
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 01:31 PM   #13
Veteran Member
 
swordfish's Avatar
 
City: Den Helder
Country: Netherlands
Vessel Name: zwaardvis
Vessel Model: albin 33
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 87
life is going well. recently I am converting my boat into my new house.
(see my tread, improving and maintaining swordfish)
hope we will stay in touch
swordfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 08:51 AM   #14
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Flybridge on Alaskan original?

Hi All,

I have a question.
Searching the Internet to learn something more about the Alaskans I was wondering if the Flybridge on some of them is original? Or is this done later by owner.
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 09:03 AM   #15
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Seaworthiness of Alaskans?

I was wondering if a Alaskan 49 is seaworthy and for what conditions it is designed? I understand there was no CE norm that days but there must be some thoughts after the design. For sure they look more seaworthy than the regular GB like the 50.
As djmarchand already mentioned before some conciderations;
1. Hull ballast (not sure this boat has any)
2. Windows that can withstand slugs of blue water
3. Engine ventilation that will let it withstand significant heeling without downflooding
4. Doors that can withstand significant heeling.
The list goes on and on.

Is there also a site where I can find the weak spots or to look for if I decide to buy one?

Just curious so Alaskan owners, please reply!
Thanks in advance
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 09:10 AM   #16
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
An Alaskan 49 has a huge engineroom in comparison to a GB50 which has much more room downstairs for cabins.
The master stateroom has even no door to the saloon, is this a showstopper or are there solutions for it besides a curtain?
My wife don't like to be watched by ohers while sleeping or .....haha.
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 10:56 AM   #17
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,581
uThere aren't any hard and fast rules that determine what is a blue water passagemaker and what isn't. CE A rating comes close, but did not exist when the Alaskan 49 was built.

Fuel capacity and range are certainly important. For crossing the Atlantic figure your longest leg: New England to Normandy with a stop in Bermuda or Lisbon to the BVI with a stop in the Azores to determine whether the boat has the range to make it.

Seaworthiness is another big issue. Sure canoes have crossed the Atlantic but realistically after ten days out you have to be able to handle whatever Mother Nature throws at you, short of a hurricane. Sailboats have a big advantage in meeting this requirement because they have to be able to sail well, duh!! That inherently means lots of ballast and therefore a generous angle of positive stability of 120 degrees or more, port lights are small so less problem being bashed in with heavy seas. Sailboats heel so engine ventilation is usually designed to take significant heeling without flooding. The weak part of sailboats is sometimes the companionway closure but that can be easily modified.

Trawlers aren't so easy. Most have no ballast and the angle of positive stability is less than 90 degrees some as little as 60. They have big windows to look out from that are vulnerable. Downflooding is often a problem and the aft door out to the cockpit is sometimes just a simple slider.

Then there is systems redundancy. For example offshore racing rules require an auxilliary DC system that can power the radio and bilge pumps if the primary goes out. You probably don't have this on your Beneteau but I would if I were going offshore in one.

So what trawlers meet my offshore requirements or can be fairly easily upgraded? Not many. For production boats: Nordhavns, Kady Krogens, some Selenes. For custom trawlers the Diesel Duck might qualify. Unfortunately all of this costs money and these trawlers sell for about double what a coastal cruiser sells for.

It isn't easy or cheap to cross oceans in a trawler.


How about a motor sailor? This Island Trader 46 is right in my backyard: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...er-46-3147170/. I doubt if it meets CE A requirements but it would be a good candidate to upgrade to be fully offshore seaworthy.


David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2018, 08:12 PM   #18
Member
 
City: Alphen A D Rijn
Country: Nederland
Vessel Name: ASHA
Vessel Model: Beneteau Oceanis 44 cc Clipper
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Hi David ,

About crossing an ocean with a trawler isn't easy or cheap.

Crossing with a sailboat isn't easy or cheap as well.
Let me explain this. If the wind change, you have to adjust the sails, if the wind enforces you have to lower the sailarea. If a squall comes over you have to bring down your sails to a minimum. Mostly to late. There is always chafe on lines and sais and you always have to be vigilant on damage what can occur. Ocean crossing is mostly not relaxed. Also a sailboat will roll downwind . On the other side of the ocean you have to find a sailmaker for the repairs to be done. Not everyday is a sailing day and our engine makes a lot of hours. You have to find other sources for energy if the engine is not running. Every ten years or so you have to renew your rigging, ropes and sails. They aren't cheap. Don't understand me wrong but I calculated what I spend last years on my boat just for sailing and for the same amount of money I could buy a lot of fuel.
In the end costs are more or less equal. Both are fun because it is boating!
Verschuijten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 03:37 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
jjorgenson3's Avatar
 
City: New Rochelle, NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Jerry Land
Vessel Model: Grand Banks/Alaskan
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 215
Welcome aboard
jjorgenson3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 07:43 AM   #20
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,581
Well, I agree that the maintenance and operating costs of a sailboat and a similarly sized trawler are approximately equal with the trawler being slightly higher.

When I said not cheap I was referring to purchase price. A Nordhavn and the others I mentioned, capable of crossing oceans, is roughly twice as expensive on the used or new market as your Beneteau.

This is a point that member FF makes every time a new member says he wants to be able to cross oceans in his next trawler. There are few such trawlers made and they are inherently expensive.

Read Bebe's book, Voyaging Under Power with new material by Nordhavn founder Leishman in the third edition. He reviews a dozen current ocean going trawlers in this book, most of which are custom builds. For example he notes that the Kady Krogen can do it but needs its windows upgraded to survive blue water crashing over the bow.

I haven't read the fourth edition which has lots of new material on stability and sea worthiness by Denis Umstot but it might be even more infornative. Some say that Leishman's material is too self serving for Nordhavn.

Also read member Daveo's recent post about his trip down the coast of Baja in his Nordhavn 46 here: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...paz-42171.html

The pertinent paragraph is copied below. His boat, the original Nordhavn 46, was built and set up well with paravanes and he survived it ok. Not sure other trawlers would have. You may have encountered similar conditions in your Beneteau, but believe me, in a trawler it is a totally different experience.

For example the worst conditions I have seen on a sailboat was 35 kts of wind and 8' seas. On a Mainship I was once in 20 kts of wind and 6' seas on the way to Catalina Island. I felt that the two experiences were roughly similar. The Mainship was rolling significantly but no blue water over the bow, just spray. In the conditions noted below he got big slugs of blue water over his bow. Not all trawlers can take that.

"With a crew of three Navigator is heading south for Mexico. On Dec. 6th we left Chula Vista, CA. We came to Chula Vista from Portland, OR via the west coast of Vancouver Island this past summer. Our first, and last for a while, stop was Pearson's Fuel dock behind Shelter Island, San Diego, to take on 540 gallons of diesel oil to fill our 1000 gallon tanks. *Except for being detoured to the edge of the channel by the harbor police to avoid the "situation on the Coronado Bay Bridge", no further explanation offered, perhaps a jumper?, our departure was all smooth sailing. We left on the outgoing tide running counter to the wind. This caused some pretty steep seas in the channel, which in turn lead to some fairly violent pitching but the paravanes, which we had set up for quick and easy deployment before leaving the calm of the harbor, did a great job eliminating roll. *We quickly discovered everything that wasn't well enough secured. *The rough ride wasn't much of a surprise with the opposing wind and tide, but the next twelve hours were. *In spite of forecast 8-10 knots from the south, right on the nose, we got hammered by steady winds up to 25 knots gusting to 30. *We were beleaguered by 6-8 foot very short period waves for the next twelve hours. *Our poor little, 30 ton, boat would climb the face of each wave and then pitch over and plunge into the trough burying the bow, and the portholes, or slamming into the next wave with a horrific crash. We got plenty of blue water over the decks and a fair bit also into our cabins. Plenty of rain, thunder and lightning. *Our speed over the ground was as low as 3 knots for much of the night. *The motion had us all chewing on bonine and some of us vomiting into the teeth of the gale. *Ever the optimist I let the completely discredited forecast, which called for the wind to drop to nothing by ‪4 AM‬, tempt me to press on rather than running for shelter into Ensenada. *Happily, that part turned out to be about right and everybody got some sleep before, and after, a beautiful dawn. *The boat handled herself well and so did the crew. Everyone was uncomfortable, perhaps at times even miserable, but not, I’m pretty sure, scared."

David
__________________

djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012