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Old 07-06-2016, 08:07 AM   #21
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Yes there are boats way down near 1 GPH and up over 6 knots, but few and far between. The closer the hull looks like a sailboat, the better your chances.
FPB's, Artnautica's and the like


If wanting comfort, REAL comfort in a passagemaker, Waterline length and lots of it , low weight, low windage and low whetted surface area is everything

SetSail » FPB 64

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/01...boat-launched/
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:01 AM   #22
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Interesting thread!
For what its worth, our 38' sailboat burns more than 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots.
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:13 AM   #23
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Don't believe a lot of the 40 and under crowd getting over 4
nmpg, less than 2 GPH and up around 8 knots with their Taiwan, semi-sisplacement boats. just not what the people I know and trust believe either that have these kind of boats.


Yes there are boats way down near 1 GPH and up over 6 knots, but few and far between. The closer the hull looks like a sailboat, the better your chances.


8 knots in a boxy, load carrying trawler with a waterline down near 36 feet needs some oomph to make 8 knots...and that takes burning fuel. My Albin 40 is really a small 39 footer and its waterline is only around 34 feet (tough to measure exactly).
TWO THUMBS UP !!
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:24 AM   #24
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The ALBIN 25 ft will happily do well under 1 GPH .

With its old SABB or a more modern engine it is a remarkable boat , with a CPP too.

About $7K - $20K will get a nice one on a trailer if you wish

6K would be top speed , but much of the loop is speed restricted to 10Klicks , which is about 6K so there would be no increase in transit times.

BEST !!!! of all these boats remain popular , so with a bit of elbow grease (paint sells the boat) you can have the boaters dream,

A Zero Round Trip.


What you buy it for can easily match what you sell it for.

Purchase in "Gods Waiting Room ,Florida" , use it till you drop and take it to the North East , and it would be very hard to loose.

Good Hunting,

Welcome to the ALBIN 25 Site

www.albin25.eu/


The European Albin 25 Ressource Website. ... DIDO Albin 25 AK. This is DIDO, a pocket trawler form the 1970s, our mobile home on the water during summer.



Albin 25 History - Albineers of BC

www.albinbc.com/home/albin-25-history




Of the 2,000 Albin 25s built, many are still doing sterling service, including the 1973 Kie-Lou, whose owners are satisfied they went for something Scandinavian ...

We went to Juneau Alaska in our Albin 25 and very seldom wished for a larger boat. Most of you view going forth in a 25' boat as camping but it's all a mindset. However I would'nt do the southern half of the loop w/o AC. Except for that though I'd consider it the ideal boat and my Willard too big. I could see the Albin tied to a tree on a riverbank but not the Willard. Most here think in terms of marinas. How often can one anchor out in loop waters?
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:32 AM   #25
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We went to Juneau Alaska in our Albin 25 and very seldom wished for a larger boat. Most of you view going forth in a 25' boat as camping but it's all a mindset. However I would'nt do the southern half of the loop w/o AC. Except for that though I'd consider it the ideal boat and my Willard too big. I could see the Albin tied to a tree on a riverbank but not the Willard. Most here think in terms of marinas. How often can one anchor out in loop waters?
Eric, I think you are coming south on the loop with the winter. So as you arrive down south, so do cooler temps. So it may not be a big deal to have AC in the winter in the south.
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:34 AM   #26
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Eric, I think you are coming south on the loop with the winter. So as you arrive down south, so do cooler temps. So it may not be a big deal to have AC in the winter in the south.
Heck, until you get to southern Florida, many need heat from the reverse cycle a lot of the nights.
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:54 AM   #27
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Our nominal waterline length is 43.875' -- at 800 RPMs (about 6.5 kts) we burn about 1.2 GPH total, i.e., both engines (2.93 NMPG) and at 900 RPMs we burn about 3 GPH total (2.35 NMPG). These are estimates from our own speed tests matched with Cummins' published nominal fuel consumption rates, not from a FloScan or similar.


Our theoretical maximum hull speed (1.34* blah blah blah) is about 8.88 kts... That would be about 1200 RPMs, 5.8 GPH total, and 1.53 NMPG.


800 and 900 RPMs == quieter than 1200, although some of the additional noise is from our wake.


All this on a planing hull, often but not always comfortable at "trawler" speeds or not on plane... and with engines significantly larger than many of the slower cruisers here.


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Old 07-06-2016, 10:15 AM   #28
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38' planing hull with a single 8.3l 450- can do 7.5kts on 1.9gph. Probably could get it down to 1gph at just above idle, maybe 6kts. But not a happy engine running that speed long term.

I figure the big beast burns at least 0.5gph just to spin itself and churn its juices. Not the most efficient machine to go super slow.

If you want best efficiency at low speed, you want a smaller engine that is operating somewhere in the middle of it's operating envelope. Making about half it's rated hp at about 3/4 of its rated rpm. Can't go wrong there.

I spec'd my engine the same way, but for planing speed. I run it there at about half its rated power, about 200-250hp, at about 3/4 its rated rpm, about 1800-2100rpm. Engine is very happy there, but I don't like feeding it there!!

Perkins 4.236, Lehman 80hp, Cummins 4bt are all about the same size and power and would be very happy pushing a mid 30's trawler at 6-7 kts and 1-2gph. Japanese tractor engines tend to be smaller, but can do the job also, depending on size of the boat.
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:27 AM   #29
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Another noob question. My first couple weeks of reading suggest that it is possible to find a $50,000 trawler to take a couple and occasional guest around the Loop while averaging just 1 gallon per hour. Is that realistic and what are the downsides of my limitations?
As others have said fuel is not your biggest expense, don't let it decide your boat choice. Buy a boat is comfortable to you regardless of fuel burn, set it up to live on at anchor. Save your money on marina usage instead of fuel and you will be happier (my opinion).
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Old 07-06-2016, 12:15 PM   #30
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Approximately 24' here with a full displacement hull and we sip fuel (1/2 to 3/4 gph) at 5-6 knots. I have no reservations taking my troller on very long journeys as she was built to handle rough seas. No air conditioning in Florida is doable but I am a native and am quite used to it. I have an AC but no generator and the hot weather has rarely bothered me--even at anchor. I actually get cold at nights while at anchor during the summer!
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:05 PM   #31
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Something to consider is the theoretical hull speed of the vessel, which can vary greatly from vessel to vessel

√ LWL * 1.34 = Theoretical Hull Speed.

Part of the key is the LWL (Length at Waterline), not the vessel length (LOA). LWL is typically a few feet shorter than LOA. Model numbers are rarely close to either LOA or LWL.

In order to get a Hull Speed of 8kts you would need an LWL => 36 ft.

A 36 ft boat with an LWL of 33ft would have a theoretical hull speed of 7.69 kts. Exceeding hull speed increases fuel burn exponentially as it is increased.

Since nautical charts are in Nautical Miles, speed (including this calculation) is based on knots, not Kilometers and not Miles Per Hour.

Something to consider when doing real-world calculations.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:22 PM   #32
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unless you're willing to brave the heat and humidity, air conditioning requires at least 120 VAC. Do many folks cruise the Loop without AC?
Somewhat depends on how you do the loop. If you spend the winter in the south, the spring heading north, the summer on the Trent-Severn and Great Lakes, and the fall heading south down the Mississippi and the Tenn-Tom, you can minimize the need for AC but I suspect you will still encounter several days you wished you had AC and several days you wish you had a heater. You just don't get perfect weather all the time.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:07 PM   #33
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I returned from Florida with my new to me 2003 OA 456, with twin cummins 6BTA putting out 315 SAE hp. We typically ran about eight knots, but frequently popped her to nine and 9.5. Manatee zones and no wakes put us at 5 - 6 knots. We averaged 4 gph which figures out to a bit more than 2 gal/m when I did the final computation.

Also, I have a bit more drag than the conventional boat as a result of pushing stabilizers through the water.

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Old 07-06-2016, 02:10 PM   #34
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On the hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
FPB's, Artnautica's and the like


If wanting comfort, REAL comfort in a passagemaker, Waterline length and lots of it , low weight, low windage and low whetted surface area is everything

SetSail » FPB 64

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/01...boat-launched/
The boat pictured at the top is currently on the hard after ripping out a stabilizer on the ICW. It was at Cobbs marina (nrofolk, va) last week for any local folks who want to see it.

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Old 07-06-2016, 02:55 PM   #35
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Oshrew wrote;
"A 36 ft boat with an LWL of 33ft would have a theoretical hull speed of 7.69 kts. Exceeding hull speed increases fuel burn exponentially as it is increased."

Actually it should be "getting near hull speed" The "brick wall" as it's called most often starts well below hull speed. About 3/4 of a knot below on a 35' boat .. approx. Very close to 7 knots would be an ideal econocruise speed for the above boat.

I run my FD 30' boat .85 of a knot below hull speed 99% of the time. Of course SD boats can go much faster the good economy for a trawler is 1/2 a knot to 1.25 knots depending on boat length. So hull speed is not the speed to go for economy .. think less than HS.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:48 PM   #36
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As others have said fuel is not your biggest expense, don't let it decide your boat choice. Buy a boat is comfortable to you regardless of fuel burn, set it up to live on at anchor. Save your money on marina usage instead of fuel and you will be happier (my opinion).
What he said.
$1300/mth in Marina fees for my boat buys more fuel than I would use.
We'll be very comfortable living on the hook at nearby deserted islands.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:52 PM   #37
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The boat pictured at the top is currently on the hard after ripping out a stabilizer on the ICW.
Compelling argument for Paravanes.
That and the $40k in difference.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:42 PM   #38
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So hull speed is not the speed to go for economy .. think less than HS.

Yep. More of a "maximum slow" than a target to shoot for.

Our example illustrates:
- 800 RPMs, 6.5 kts, 1.2 GPH, 2,93 NMPG
- 900 RPMs, 7.0 kts, 3.0 GPH, 2.35 NMPG
- 1200 RPMs, 8.9 kts, 5.8 GPH, 1.53 NMPG (approx. our theoretical max hull speed)

Not perfect comparison, since our hull form is different from FD, but makes the point I think.

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Old 07-06-2016, 07:42 PM   #39
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As others have said fuel is not your biggest expense, don't let it decide your boat choice. Buy a boat is comfortable to you regardless of fuel burn, set it up to live on at anchor. Save your money on marina usage instead of fuel and you will be happier (my opinion).
Thanks for all the input, folks. Great stuff. I am convinced that fuel consumption is secondary. If I stay in the sub-40' market and run a single Lehman 120 or 135, burn rate should be quite comfortable regardless.

How about this corollary question. Is a diesel generator the best way to make enough AC to run an AC when needed? I've spent a lot of summer time boon docking in RVs and virtually never run air conditioning (or the generator). On those rare times, can AC be run off solar/wind/alternator charged batteries?
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:22 PM   #40
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Thanks for all the input, folks. Great stuff. I am convinced that fuel consumption is secondary. If I stay in the sub-40' market and run a single Lehman 120 or 135, burn rate should be quite comfortable regardless.

How about this corollary question. Is a diesel generator the best way to make enough AC to run an AC when needed? I've spent a lot of summer time boon docking in RVs and virtually never run air conditioning (or the generator). On those rare times, can AC be run off solar/wind/alternator charged batteries?
There are some folks that have rigged up larger alternators and inverters to run an AC unit while underway without running the genset - however for most purposes you are just better off running the genset - unless you are putting on major hours underway you won't ever recoup the increased costs associated with the inverter/alternator/associated switching. Solar/Wind won't put out near enough juice for an AC unit.
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