Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-29-2011, 11:06 AM   #1
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
Weapons on board ?

I never had a weapon with me on open water. Now that I am planning to become a river rat, it got me to thinking. There*are probably more Americans killed from crimes each week than in Afghanastan and Iraq combined.

Generally, there will not be many kids on our boat so guns would not be a accidental safety issue. Are guns necessary for river running. I never hear of any major crimes on boats in the US although I'm sure it does happen. If I do get a gun, I will probably end up with my old favorite - 22 Magnum revolver.

Do you guys carry and what do you carry?

*
__________________
Advertisement

Tony B is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:31 AM   #2
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
RE: Weapons on board ?

I carry a sks* shoots a 7.62x39.

Great for the occasional deer or even spring blask bear in season

The sks will take tons of abuse and still work.

Rust, dirt ,crud.* Kick the bolt open the thing will still shoot.

Real sloppy tolerences. It was made for pesants to use. The only tool needed to disassemble is a bullet.

SD*
__________________

skipperdude is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:37 AM   #3
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Weapons on board ?

This has been discussed at length several times on TF. A search of the archives will get you more answers and opinions than you could imagine. But to repeat myself yet again, when we take longer trips up north in either the boat or the floatplane we carry a seven-shot, Savage Model 69RXL short barrel, long magazine 12-gauge shotgun. Loaded and used properly a 12-gauge shotgun is the most effective protection against both black and brown bears (something I know from personal experience) and with light loads is an effective survival gun. Handguns are illegal in Canada and this, plus the fact that they are worthless for bear protection unless you manage to jam it between the jaws of a bear as it bites down on you, precludes us from carrying one on these trips. We have never had any concern about protection from people on any of our trips, either in the plane or the boat. So our only objective is bear protection and survival. Both of these are far more critical with the plane because of where we go. But when boating if one goes ashore in remoter areas up north to hike, fish, etc., bears are something it's wise to be prepared for. The photo below is what we carry.

As neither bears nor back country survival are issues in river cruising, at least not in the places you're talking about, I would think the only concern would be personal protection.* I have no idea of the risk level in your area.* I do not deem it high enough out here to carry a weapon on board when we cruise locally.* And unless you are prepared to carry a weapon all the time with the relevant permit(s), given the usually sudden and unexpected nature of a criminal encounter my guess would be that a weapon carried on the boat would probably not do you much good.* The only exception I can think of is if you are on the boat and someone boards you.

I have a handgun but it was purchased for the purpose of boar hunting in Hawaii.* It is far too big physically to carry as any sort of personal protection weapon.* So I can't offer any advice on what to buy if you intend to carry something tucked away on your person.* Talk to a firearms dealer who specializes in this sort of thing is probably what I would do were I in the market for such a gun.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 29th of July 2011 11:40:14 AM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	s69rxl.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	103.6 KB
ID:	6831  
Marin is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:41 AM   #4
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Weapons on board ?

No, but if I did they would be a 357 magnum/38+/38 Special revolver and/or a*12-gauge, short-barreled, pump-action shotgun.* These guns and their ammunition are readily available and are sufficiently powerful for the purpose.* I question the stopping power or intimidation value*(being intimidating is your best friend) of a 22 rimfire magnum.* Military-style weapons may cause law enforcement people*to give you "dirty looks."**I don't trust the reliability of semi-automatic weapons in a survival/marine environment.
markpierce is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 02:15 PM   #5
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
RE: Weapons on board ?

I was just thinking of personal protection from people. I just didn't know if it was a problem. I have never thought about it in the open Gulf of Mex. I also carried a handgun when I went rock hunting in Arkansas and there was a woman with me. Some of the places in the Ozarks these people have never seen a woman they weren't related to.

Anyway, I always liked a 22 magnum because i figure I will never shoot at anyone more than 10 feet away and I wouldn't have to worry about punching a hole in my own boat. The main reason I like the 22 magnum is that is I had to use it and no one heard the shot, I certainly wont be turning myself in.

Anyway, you guys answered my original question in that one is not necessary. The main reason I asked is that there are lots of very unfriendly places around New Orleans and I do understand that N.O. is it's own planet. We do plan on anchoring out a lot.

Thanks again.
Tony B is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:17 PM   #6
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,607
RE: Weapons on board ?

I always carry a couple of handguns on board when cruising overnight. I've never needed one although I did surprise a thief trying to steal a dinghy from the slip one away from my boat. Guns played no part in it, I heard a clatter outside about 10 PM, turned on the light and when I drew the curtain and looked outside, a guy standing on the finger pier saw me and took off like a jack rabbit. He ran up to the parking lot, jumped into a waiting car and took off. There was an aluminum skiff/dinghy in the slip, he was trying to it get loose. The next day I saw the dinghy tied up to a liveaboard's anchored boat, as we were leaving I hailed the owner and told him what happened. He worked nights and left the dinghy at the dock while he was working.
That happened spring 2010 at the Ft. Walton FL free city dock. It is a nice facility on the ICW, no power or water, but next to a park where there are lots of "homeless" hanging around. There are restaurants and a supermarket nearby but I would not advise going out after dark or leaving the boat alone there.
If you are going to carry a gun it is best take a course to learn the safety and legality requirements, if for self defence probably something larger like a .38 or larger will be recommended.
Steve W.
Steve is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 10:19 PM   #7
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Weapons on board ?

I used to carry my .357 on board, but I never really felt endangered and the salt air was very hard on the finish. *So I don't bring it anylonger.*

I've been looking at some stainless steel short barreled survival style shot guns for boat trips north into bear country of Canada and Alaska. *They had a recent mauling a couple of days ago, where a group of young hikers stumbled onto a brown bear and her cubs.* The sow chased them down and beat them up pretty good.**Put five or six of them in the hospital, I believe they are all going to make it.*
Actually, they have recently documented the presents of brown bears here in Washington State.* For years we've heard about phantom sitings of grizzly ever so often.* But I saw some pictures taken this year by several different groups in the Cascade Mountains, of bears and they were obviously grizzlies in all cases.* So I might have to start carrying one on camping trips and outings here too. One of the stainless shotguns was a Marlin 12 gauge and the other a 410 which will fire either shotgun slugs, shot or a .30 carbine rounds.*
If I lived or traveled to N O, I'm thinking I would probably bring my bear gun.. . . . For Sure!!


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Friday 29th of July 2011 10:21:43 PM
Edelweiss is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 10:45 PM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Weapons on board ?

The absolute best anti-bear device is a compressed gas boat horn like the ones you can buy at West Marine and the like. We first learned about them as bear protection in the early 90s from a BC fisheries researcher on one of our floatplane trips into the Coast Range in BC. From then on we've carried them with us when we're in bear country and we beep them off periodically to let any bears in the vicinity know that we are too. We still carry the shotgun but we have never had to use it since we started using the horns. Bear bells, singing and talking are better than nothing but having something that makes a loud and very weird (to the bears) noise and can be heard for miles is what you want.

I have no idea how they would work in New Orleans but they are loud enough that at close range they might make a fellow pause a moment before he shoots or stabs you.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 29th of July 2011 10:47:46 PM
Marin is offline  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:49 PM   #9
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Weapons on board ?

Quote:
Tony B wrote:

Anyway, I always liked a 22 magnum because i figure I will never shoot at anyone more than 10 feet away and I wouldn't have to worry about punching a hole in my own boat. The main reason I like the 22 magnum is that is I had to use it and no one heard the shot, I certainly wont be turning myself in.
*In my experience, the 22 rimfire-magnum is*very loud when shot from a revolver/pistol, and the round has plenty of penetration and would be surprised if it*didn't pentrate the typical boat hull.* (And I thought I was deaf.)* If one wants "silence," use a 22-rimfire, long-rifle,*subsonic round (typically marketed as target ammunition)*using a rifle.* To reduce the likelihood of boat-hull penetration, use bird shot.
markpierce is offline  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:33 AM   #10
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
RE: Weapons on board ?

For folks that have some problem with a gun, wasp and hornet spray can work fine out to 20 ft.

Also so low cost that it can be openly carried in the dink, with no problem with theft.
FF is offline  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:01 AM   #11
Hospitality Officer
 
Andy G's Avatar
 
City: Pittwater
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,557
RE: Weapons on board ?

"In my experience, the 22 rimfire-magnum is very loud when shot from a revolver/pistol, and the round has plenty of penetration and would be surprised if it didn't pentrate the typical boat hull. (And I thought I was deaf.) If one wants "silence," use a 22-rimfire, long-rifle, subsonic round (typically marketed as target ammunition) using a rifle. To reduce the likelihood of boat-hull penetration, use bird shot."

Are you serious? I hope we don't have too many Norwegian forum members on line.
Andy G is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 11:29 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
RE: Weapons on board ?

I maybe leaning a tad to the extreme here...call me paranoid; call me prepared. As a fairly recent combat veteran, small arms expert and FL CCW carrier, I'm always armed with something. If you carry every day, you probably have a favorite weapon for that purpose. Just like with anything else, the tool should be suited to the purpose. Your daily carried pistol/revolver might not be the best for your cruising situation. It certainly is no good at all where your CCW is not reciprocated. First consider your age, health, physical agility and acuteness of your senses. How close is an intruder likely to get to you? Are you a sound sleeper? Do you have any other means of early warning? The worst case scenario is that someone gains access to your vessel in the middle of the night and you come face to face with the intruder in your quarters. That's close! Spread it out a bit and lets say you catch him in the salon. These are scenarios where a short shotgun is preferred. One shot, big mess, but no more threat. Sorry...I don't care where I am...in this situation, I'll mortgage everything and then some for a good attorney, reciprocity be damned. Here in Florida we have the "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" which clearly justifies these actions in this type of scenario. Other states may have similar laws, but there maybe a law that gives you (the property owner/victim) the legal obligation to retreat before the use of deadly force. Forget that! I shoot first and hire an attorney second.

Offshore is another matter. Personally, I prefer something in .223/5.56mm with stainless and composite construction. I want something reliable with a little bit of range and accuracy that will stand up to the marine environment. I also want a weapon that I can accessorize with a "Surefire" LED light and a laser. A laser isn't always for firing accuracy! Its a pretty powerful deterrent once someone notices that they have a bull's eye on their chest or their partner's forehead. Let's face it, there are pirates out there and a slow trawler is probably a pretty valuable target to a marine criminal. I've read some stories about hijackings and such where pirates are more interested lately in fast boats that they can acquire, use to run drugs and ditch all in the same night. A trawler wouldn't likely serve that purpose, however if I was a criminal out looking to score some cash, jewelry or other valuables, I'd definitely hit a trawler at anchor or under power in the open. This is not a situation ideally suited to a pistol or even a shotgun. This is the type of scenario that you want to maintain some distance between you and an approaching vessel. Clearly your first defensive weapon will be the VHF, every light you have on board and someone behind you ready to launch a flare sortie. Generally speaking, once it is clear that a criminal's intention will be met with armed resistance, they'll go away.

Every boater has heard stories of piracy in the Caribbean and open waters of the Gulf of Mexico. Whether or not you chose to believe the stories is up to you. Preparing yourself for an encounter with marine criminals is also up to you. You might sail/cruise all corners of the globe and and never encounter someone intending you ill will. It could happen tomorrow that someone flags you down in "distress" in open water. I'm going to be prepared to defend myself, my family and my property in that situation and I make sure that it is clear that I am armed from a pretty good distance away.
__________________

nehringer is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
On Board Refrigeration belizebill Other Trawler Systems 42 07-04-2012 12:49 PM
Laptops On Board Penta Electrical and Electronics & Navigation 38 10-10-2011 04:15 PM
PC's on Board KJ General Discussion 9 04-19-2011 12:00 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012