Some facts about Christmas

[GFC]

Some facts about Christmas

Our country seems to be in a constant battle over what should or should not be allowed at Christmas. Aethists and other non-believers would lead us to believe that the vast majority of Americans do not want any religious symbols or Christmas symbols allowed on public property and that Christmas celebration are a thing of the past.

According to the Pew Research Center, at this website http://www.pewresearch.org/search/christmas+/ most Americans do celebrate Christmas. Here are some of their findings:

-92% of Americans and 96% of Christians celebrate Christmas
-81% of non-Christians also celebrate Christmas. This includes 87% of people with no religion and 76% of Asian-American Buddhists (76%) and Hindus (73%).
-32% of Jews said they had a Christmas tree in their homes.
-51% of Americans say they celebrate Christmas as more of a religious holiday while 32% say it is more of a cultural holiday.

When asked if they preferred the greeting “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays” in a store, 46% said it doesn’t matter. 42% chose “Merry Christmas”. 12% said “Happy Holidays” was their choice.

When asked about religious symbols such as the nativity being displayed on government property 44% said they should be allowed regardless of whether any other faiths were represented. 28% say they should be allowed only with other religions represented and 20% say Christian symbols shouldn’t be allowed at all.

Americans believe the elements of the traditional Christmas story. 73% say that Jesus was born to a virgin. 81% believe he was laid in a manger. 75% believe the part about the Three Wise Men, 74% believe an angel appeared to the shepherds. 65% believe all four of these things happened while 14% believe none of them happened.

On gift giving, 86% of Americans buy gifts for friends or family.

There is a lot more to this survey so I’d recommend you take a few minutes to read it for yourself.

Now, with these facts in mind, why are we caving in to the wishes of a small minority of Americans who want to get rid of Christmas?

Merry Christmas,

Mike and Tina (GW)

 

[West]

Love Christmas, but I don't see as many lights as I used to when being a kid, I assume many are rebelling against the pure commercialization of everything associated with the season/event.

I found this statement rather scary though "Most Say Christmas Story Historically Accurate". Especially since we can't prove things that happened last week, even with video and credible witnesses

 

[rwidman]

...............Now, with these facts in mind, why are we caving in to the wishes of a small minority of Americans who want to get rid of Christmas?

I personally am not caving in to anyone. Our politicians are, however. It's time to replace them!

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Tom.B]

Atheists do not want to get rid of christmas. All that is wanted is that, as implied and tested by constitutional law, you do not use tax dollars and government property to promote any religion. How hard is that to understand? Christian privilege in this country has gotten out of control. The Constitution is the document this country was founded on, not the bible.

 

[Tom.B]

And by the way... I celebrate christmas as a winter holiday to get together with friends and try and get thru this dismal, dark, and usually cold time of year. Not the birth of a man that never existed. But I am TOTALLY okay if you do.

 

[rwidman]

Atheists do not want to get rid of christmas. All that is wanted is that, as implied and tested by constitutional law, you do not use tax dollars and government property to promote any religion. How hard is that to understand? Christian privilege in this country has gotten out of control. The Constitution is the document this country was founded on, not the bible.

Yea, that shouldn't be controversial!

I don't really care if someone is religious or not or what religion they are but what I see happening and Christians rebelling against is the "Holiday Trees" and the "Happy Holidays" greetings. It's still Christmas on the calendar, not "Holiday".

I guess the government ought to remove tax exemptions for churches and religious groups. Change the name of Christmas and Easter. Declare nul and void any Blue Laws.

And I'll finish with "Merry Christmas" to you and yours.

 

[Tom.B]

True enough, but it is only christmas on the calendar because christians demanded it and hijacked the holiday to try and bring their declining membership numbers up. Hey look, nobody is going to change any minds here. Celebrate what you want to celebrate, but don't ask for special treatment because of it. Fly the rebel flag on you house and wear it every day, but don't put it on the capital lawn. Same goes for the holidays. Christians want to see everything through their own lens, but there are a lot of different people out there than just you. Try to see it from another side. Nobody is trying to stop you from believing what you want to, just don't pressure the government to do it. The government of the USA should be a secular entity. That is what freedom is.

 

[caltexflanc]

The First Amendment is distorted by anti-religionists as much as the 2nd is by gun nuts. The former conveniently (unfortunately supported by too many courts) ignore the part about passing no laws preventing the free exercise of religion. The free exercise of religion is what is under attack, and not just Christianity. I happen to think this whole "war on Christmas" thing is another tin foil hat made up crisis. Victimhood is the new national pastime; regardless of what your political or religious or cultural or ethnic or sexual orientation is.

 

[O C Diver]

Atheists do not want to get rid of christmas. All that is wanted is that, as implied and tested by constitutional law, you do not use tax dollars and government property to promote any religion. How hard is that to understand? Christian privilege in this country has gotten out of control. The Constitution is the document this country was founded on, not the bible.

Tom, just curious if you're OK with an Easter or Christmas parade on a city street (government property)?

Ted

 

[Tom.B]

A little, but the organizers... usually a town's retail organization... pay a fee for usage. In addition, they almost always allow other groups to participate in the parade. If they don't, yea, I would have a problem with that. I don't see it as the same idea though. Groups like the klan and westboro church use public land to demonstrate their beliefs. Is that relevant here? I don't know, but if a christian only parade used it as a reason to disallow non-christian orgs from their parade... I guess that is a discussion to have then. Allowing parades and demonstrations is not the same as the government erecting christian symbolism on government property.

Maybe apples and oranges, but it does seem appropriate.

 

[rwidman]

.............. Not the birth of a man that never existed. .

You know that the current year is 2016 AD. What do you think that number is based on? He sure fooled a lot of people if He never existed.

 

[fstbttms]

You know that the current year is 2016 AD. What do you think that number is based on? He sure fooled a lot of people if He never existed.

OMG- seriously? Do you really believe that a calendar (actually the modification of a Roman calendar that predates Jesus) introduced by a religious leader 600 years later is proof that Jesus existed? Bwhahahahaha!

 

[Tom.B]

He sure fooled a lot of people if He never existed.

Actually, a recent study seems to point to the idea that a person named jesus never existed at all. A study of ancient texts and writings by some of the most acclaimed scholars of the period and in the direct vicinity of the region, make no mention of any profit or divine carpenter. How would such a high profile man with such a huge following that made such a stink with the government they felt the need to put him to death go completely unmentioned by every noted author of the day?

It reminds me of the story of moses leading millions out into the dessert for years and years, yet, not a single shred of archeological evidence was left behind. A million people walking around the dessert would have certainly made huge footprints we could have followed. Even today.

Like I keep repeating... Believe what you like. I suppose it's best I bow out of this conversation because it is likely going to get thrown Off The Deep End sooner or later, an I am not signed on to participate in there.

 

[rwidman]

"A recent study" means nothing at all. Anyone can conduct a "study" and publish it as "fact".


Please don't take me for some sort of religious nut, I am not, but a whole lot of what we come across in our daily lives in the western world (most of the world actually) has its roots in Christianity.


Think about it before you argue.

 

[West]

OK, since this used to be a boat forum ...

I will give a $50 Christmas gift card to anyone who can tell me how they got a pair of every animal in the world on a boat

 

[CPseudonym]

OK, since this used to be a boat forum ...

I will give a $50 Christmas gift card to anyone who can tell me how they got a pair of every animal in the world on a boat

Quite simply they didn't.

Because that is not what happened in the Genesis account, a complete misquote actually.

Keep your money and read the Bible, with an open mind.

 

[fstbttms]

...read the Bible, with an open mind.

As you would any other work of fiction.

 

[GFC]

OK, since this used to be a boat forum ...

I will give a $50 Christmas gift card to anyone who can tell me how they got a pair of every animal in the world on a boat

UP the ramp?
I'll PM you with the address where to send the gift card to. Thanks.

 

[West]

UP the ramp?
I'll PM you with the address where to send the gift card to. Thanks.

Good answer

 

[Al]

Yea, that shouldn't be controversial!

I don't really care if someone is religious or not or what religion they are but what I see happening and Christians rebelling against is the "Holiday Trees" and the "Happy Holidays" greetings. It's still Christmas on the calendar, not "Holiday".

I guess the government ought to remove tax exemptions for churches and religious groups. Change the name of Christmas and Easter. Declare nul and void any Blue Laws.

And I'll finish with "Merry Christmas" to you and yours.

And no more holidays! Just another work day, including Sunday. Was that not created as a Christian day of rest after the non-existient soul created the earth? Just asking. but in the main, no more holidays or days off if this country was not founded on much of the bible teachings? Just asking agin.

 

[Al]

OK, since this used to be a boat forum ...

I will give a $50 Christmas gift card to anyone who can tell me how they got a pair of every animal in the world on a boat

Seems to me that in the past, when questioned, the inquirer was quickly notified that the 'Off The Deep End' was a section that delt with "All other subjects" NOT related to boats particularly. Am I misquoting??

Thank you PC for the come back. Pisses me off no end sometimes. It reminds me that liberals don't like guns, instead of not buying or owing one, they want to stop you and me from having any. same it seems with religion. If they want to be a non-religion fine, but by God, they were born into a society that recognized specific religions.

Now if being a agnostic or what ever it their bag fine, I could care less,practice what you wish and often.

This from one who is not a Bible pound'er by any means, but I know that the Bible contains guidelines of rules if you would, that had to current times, kept us in bounds of moral and civil civilization.
Fast falling apart quickly as the 'Me,me,me' without any restraints reflects , a repeat showing of Sodom and Gomorrah in the making:

What was the sin or sins of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Al-Ketchikan

 

[Tom.B]

So the bible has been around for how long? 1500 years or so? And so your argument is that no morals existed for all mankind prior to that? What if someone was to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that no gods ever existed? Would we all then run out and rape children and murder people we didn't like? How long would mankind have lasted if our social values had us killing ourselves off? What really happened was we evolved into a social creature that lives to pass their genes down to the next generation. The bible, like it or nor, was a control mechanism to scare people into being under church control, in one of the greatest power-grabs in all human history.

Dang it... This time I am really done. Sorry mods.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. TB. I'm on your side here but to comment on..."... if our social values had us killing ourselves off?" History is filled with peoples with certain social values killing off other people with different social values. To this day, Sunnis and Shias are at each other's throats. Yup, religious based war.
The topic of lack of pre-scipture morals has been discussed before with no case being made for the bible as the definer of moral practice. Yes, morals existed pre bible times and currently exist in civilizations that never heard of the bible OR it's myriad of "interpretations".

 

[CPseudonym]

So the bible has been around for how long? 1500 years or so?

No sir, less than 500 years in its current format


And so your argument is that no morals existed for all mankind prior to that?

Pretty much, Jewish and Christian influence upon European morality is hardly a matter for debate.


What if someone was to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that no gods ever existed?

Every bit as impossible as proving beyond any doubt that God does exist.


Would we all then run out and rape children and murder people we didn't like?

A large proportion of Muslims currently do.


How long would mankind have lasted if our social values had us killing ourselves off?

Population control is what the current crop of progressives call it.


What really happened was we evolved into a social creature that lives to pass their genes down to the next generation. The bible, like it or nor, was a control mechanism to scare people into being under church control, in one of the greatest power-grabs in all human history.

Undoubtedly it was used as a control mechanism by the Catholic Church, the reformation started by Martin Luther was about removing that control and removing the shackles of the Christian faith.

Dang it... This time I am really done. Sorry mods.

For the record I can care less about apologizing for this discussion outside OTDE. All religious discussion is supposed to be there, if they didn't move it they chose poorly IMO.

 

[Al]

Now comes this article on to days Brightbart site:
I sort of rest my case on the reason for decline.



“America’s loss of religiosity has been accompanied by a liberalization of moral views. Statistics from another Gallup poll last May indicate that Americans’ moral views have grown increasingly more liberal as religious affiliation has declined, with U.S. citizens tending to approve of behavior they would have deemed immoral or sinful just a generation ago.

While the most radical change has been in Americans’ positive moral evaluation of polygamy and human cloning, approval of gay and lesbian relations has also soared in the same time period, with an absolute majority of 63% of the population now seeing nothing wrong with this homosexual behavior, as opposed to 40% in 2001—an increase of 23 percent.”

Gallup Poll Confirms Americans Losing Religion - Breitbart

Al-Ketchikan

 

[Al]

Another wonderful source

And then again from one of the liberal's most reliable sources:

(And I thought it was due to beheadings!!! Silly me.)

“Atheists, agnostics and those who do not affiliate with religion will make up a smaller percentage of the world's total population by 2050 — even though the group is growing in the U.S. and Europe. The decline is primarily because those who are unaffiliated religiously have low fertility rates, with women bearing an average of 1.7 children in their lifetime.”

Pew Study Predicts Islam's Growth Spurt Will Make It The World's Dominant Religion by Century's End : Goats and Soda : NPR

 

[Tom.B]

Greetings,
Mr. TB. I'm on your side here but to comment on..."... if our social values had us killing ourselves off?" History is filled with peoples with certain social values killing off other people with different social values. To this day, Sunnis and Shias are at each other's throats. Yup, religious based war.

True enough, but that is not killing people because they don't know the difference between right and wrong, but for the survival of their way of life. Big difference there.

 

[kthoennes]

Rats, the Ignore-Thread option doesn't appear on the phone app version of Trawler Forum.

Well, Merry Christmas all even so, the Lord maketh the the rain fall on the heathen and Christian alike. Some of you are missing the most profound joy and love humans can have in this sin-tossed world, but the door is always open.

Okay, now I have to fire up the regular computer and find that ignore button.

 

[Rebel112r]

Saw this on a billboard awhile back. "He who honks his horn the loudest, is in the deepest part of the fog!" Boating related too.

 

[Tom.B]

Okay, now I have to fire up the regular computer and find that ignore button.

No sense ignoring people just because you don't agree with them. Ignore a thread, maybe, but I have nothing against believers. Only against the belief. I would hate to miss a good reply to an anchor thread just because someone thought I was a sinner going to hell.