Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-21-2018, 12:03 PM   #1
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,271
Sales tax on online sales

So, with today's SCOTUS decision, most larger companies will have to collect the sales tax on internet sales. Amazon has been doing this for a few years anyway, but it will effect most online retailers now.


Will this change your buying habits for boat related products?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 12:12 PM   #2
Curmudgeon
 
BaltimoreLurker's Avatar
 
City: Stoney Creek, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon Dance
Vessel Model: 1974 34' Marine Trader Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
So, with today's SCOTUS decision, most larger companies will have to collect the sales tax on internet sales. Amazon has been doing this for a few years anyway, but it will effect most online retailers now.

Will this change your buying habits for boat related products?

Won't change my habits on any purchases. Online is just way too convenient.
__________________

BaltimoreLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 05:17 PM   #3
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 524
Once upon a time it was too tedious for resellers to know the proper state AND local taxes that should be levied for all of their customers. Let alone knowing where to send the collected money. But since the 90's that info has been readily accessible in just about all computer accounting software. So the excuse of it being too hard to properly collect has largely vanished.

As long as the taxes are levied equally for both in and out of state purchasers, and the rates aren't otherwise egregious, it'll do little to change my buying habits. Now, start charging out of state residents more (like ridiculous hotel taxes) and I'll damned sure take my business elsewhere.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2018, 06:03 AM   #4
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,625
Iím just thinking out loud here... but... Would a flat Federal online sales tax rate make any sense whatsoever? So i stead of companies trying to figure out 50 different rates, online purchases get a simply calculated single rate. This money goes to the purchase state and not to the Federal coffer.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2018, 06:38 AM   #5
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
Iím just thinking out loud here... but... Would a flat Federal online sales tax rate make any sense whatsoever? So i stead of companies trying to figure out 50 different rates, online purchases get a simply calculated single rate. This money goes to the purchase state and not to the Federal coffer.
I think maybe not really... at least not without some other changes to various state tax structures.

States (should) set their sales tax rate based on the cost of budgeted government-supplied goods and services, and that varies from place to place... partly due to environmental factors, partly due to the rest of their particular tax structure.

While a flat rate might be easier for merchants to navigate, it may not speak easily to individual State budget processes.

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2018, 01:24 PM   #6
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
I think maybe not really... at least not without some other changes to various state tax structures.



States (should) set their sales tax rate based on the cost of budgeted government-supplied goods and services, and that varies from place to place... partly due to environmental factors, partly due to the rest of their particular tax structure.



While a flat rate might be easier for merchants to navigate, it may not speak easily to individual State budget processes.



-Chris


I agree with you Chris. Each state has such wildly different tax structures. Oregon has no sales tax. Why should an Oregon resident pay sales tax on an online purchase? WA has relatively high sales tax as we have no income tax. Should WA forgo its rightful tax out of convenience?

I live in a suburban city that has had some significant budget issues over the past decade due to some changes in state laws. However, I was speaking with a city official the other day and they are finding that with the increase in online sales, our city budget is starting to look a little less dire. Sales tax is paid based on the location of the purchaser. So if I order a widget from Amazon, my city gets their cut of the sales tax. If I leave the city and purchase the widget at a B&M store in Tacoma, then my city never sees any sales tax revenue.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 01:40 PM   #7
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 983
I am firmly against giving any of the states more money to waste. Consider public pensions for example. It has been well known for years now that public employee pensions are grossly underfunded.

Underfunded for many reasons such as outrageous public salaries that drive their pension benefits.

Consider:

https://www.masslive.com/news/index....tate_poli.html
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 07:29 PM   #8
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Once upon a time it was too tedious for resellers to know the proper state AND local taxes that should be levied for all of their customers. Let alone knowing where to send the collected money. But since the 90's that info has been readily accessible in just about all computer accounting software. So the excuse of it being too hard to properly collect has largely vanished.

As long as the taxes are levied equally for both in and out of state purchasers, and the rates aren't otherwise egregious, it'll do little to change my buying habits. Now, start charging out of state residents more (like ridiculous hotel taxes) and I'll damned sure take my business elsewhere.
Yes, collecting the tax is no longer a problem. However, the retailer will now have to file something like 48 state sales tax returns plus an unknown number of city returns. Hugely expensive for the smaller retailer.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 01:42 AM   #9
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
I am firmly against giving any of the states more money to waste...
The late Kerry Packer would approve. Accused of tax avoidance(not evasion), said he didn`t like how the Govt. spent the tax he paid and he was not contributing more than he had to.
With over a year`s notice, Australia imposed a 10% goods and Services Tax on all imports under $1000, as well as those >$1K which were already taxed.(Some people even split orders> $1K into 2 parts,tut tut).All local purchases are subject to GST so it just levels things up.

Ebay and other sellers seem to be coping with no problems,it gets added to the purchase at the outset.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 04:55 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
RobertLeatch's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Poseidon
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk1
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 33
Bruce - being obliged to collect the GST on all orders was the reason that Amazon no longer ships to Australia (as of 1 July). Only the Australian Amazon site is now available and it has far few products available and noticeably higher prices. Not saying itís not a inherently fairer situation for local retailers but as a consumer It has reduced our options in a big way.
RobertLeatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:24 PM   #11
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLeatch View Post
Bruce - being obliged to collect the GST on all orders was the reason that Amazon no longer ships to Australia (as of 1 July). Only the Australian Amazon site is now available and it has far few products available and noticeably higher prices. Not saying it’s not a inherently fairer situation for local retailers but as a consumer It has reduced our options in a big way.
Robert, let`s hope Amazon, having cut access to overseas product, increases its limited local product range. I saw a suggestion they could go the way of Starbucks company owned stores in Australia if they don`t.
But, if Ebay can collect and remit GST,surely Amazon can. Assuming they want to allow international purchasing, they could be forcing sales to their local arm.
Ebay`s system just delivered me an engine part, from the UK, in 5 days,GST paid, standard shipping. Someone will get a good reference for that.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:39 PM   #12
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Robert, let`s hope Amazon, having cut access to overseas product, increases its limited local product range. I saw a suggestion they could go the way of Starbucks company owned stores in Australia if they don`t.
But, if Ebay can collect and remit GST,surely Amazon can. Assuming they want to allow international purchasing, they could be forcing sales to their local arm.
Ebay`s system just delivered me an engine part, from the UK, in 5 days,GST paid, standard shipping. Someone will get a good reference for that.
Not sure how Amazon is collecting taxes but one thing I am sure is that it is not working really properly (for my own benefit). When I order there I pay from 0 to 15% taxes (the normal tax here) randomly.

L
Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 12:56 AM   #13
Guru
 
ssobol's Avatar
 
City: Leesburg, VA
Country: United States
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 575
In my state I am required to pay "use" (i.e. sales) tax on anything I buy online if the seller does not charge me for the sales tax in my state. It is paid as part of my state income tax every year. I am supposed to tell them how much I spent and calculate the appropriate tax. Having some online retailers that charge tax and some that do not makes it more complicated than it used to be.

I usually just ballpark a number and pay the tax on that (so far so good). Since all online sales are paid electronically there is a record which cannot be "fudged" like cash sales can be should someone decide to really look at how much I (or anyone else) buy online. I suppose you could use Bitcoin to avoid a record that the tax authorities could follow.

Things sold by Amazon proper are taxed. Things sold by 3rd parties via the Amazon market or hosting (there are a lot of them) may or may not have taxes applied. It is up to the individual companies to decide how they handle the tax question.
ssobol is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 05:09 AM   #14
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,994
The misconception here is that we speak in terms of a "state" sales tax when in fact there are over 40,000 different "sales" tax taxing districts in the United States.

Years ago when I worked in this area of the law it was said that no one knew the correct tax in every district on any given day. The base rate in Illinois may change on July 1, but the add on rates for Cook County or Chicago may change on any day selected by the politicians. Rates have gone up or down mid-month. These districts are not divided by zip code or even by city. Sometimes a house on one side of a street is in a different district than the house across the street. And the districts overlap. Thus the tax rate for item A could be 6.75% for a house at 4909 Jones Street and 7.25% for a house at 4910 Jones Street. This is not a problem if the store is at 4909 Jones Street because all items are taxed at the rate for that location, not where the customer lives.

There is also a problem in that not all item are taxed at the same rate in the same taxing district, some districts exempt many items, others do not, again this would vary by address within the same zip code.

My reason that this was a bad decision is that it should have been left to congress to adopt a workable law, for example a law in which each state could charge one tax for any sale shipped to within that state and there would be only one report to be filed per state.

Another problem is that in many taxing districts the sales tax is a main source of income for the district. If the out of state seller files only one report on sale how does the local district get its money.

For those of you who know this area of the law I realize I am using the common but incorrect term for this tax. It is actually a "Retail Occupation Tax" on the retailer not a tax on the customer. Taxing interstate sales by a state would violate the constitution.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 06:20 AM   #15
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
For those of you who know this area of the law I realize I am using the common but incorrect term for this tax. It is actually a "Retail Occupation Tax" on the retailer not a tax on the customer. Taxing interstate sales by a state would violate the constitution.

That's a very interesting distinction that really calls into question the court decision. Previously, a business had to collect tax if it had a business presence in a particular state. That seems consistent with a Retail Occupation Tax. So, for example, I have been paying MA sales tax on Amazon purchases for as long as I can remember, since Amazon has some presence in the state. Back when I was running my company, we started collecting and remitting sales tax for states when we opened up a sales office in that state, but not before. So I wonder just how many states will start getting Amazon sales tax revenue now who weren't getting it before. Amazon was painted as the bad guy who was evading taxes, but for me that's just not the case at all.



All this really suggests that the court decision was about leveling the playing field, not about interpreting the law.


And I don't know about others, but not having to pay sales tax is only a minor consideration when I decide where to buy something. Product quality, availability, and price I think are the key consideration, in that order. Sales tax has only a minor impact on price. My point is that the only way I'll buy more locally is if availability and quality of product gets better. 9 out of 10 times when I order by mail, it's because of availability of what I want. If I could buy it locally, I would/do.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 08:31 AM   #16
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post


All this really suggests that the court decision was about leveling the playing field, not about interpreting the law.

.

Yes! And that is a fundamental problem with judges. If they want to make laws they run for a seat in congress!
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 10:03 AM   #17
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Yes! And that is a fundamental problem with judges. If they want to make laws they run for a seat in congress!

Well, I don't agree with that in general, but in this case I do. Interpretation of laws can seem like writing laws, especially when you disagree with the decision.


But remember, our "laws" come in two parts; statutes (written laws), and case law (interpreted law). If you only want statutory laws, France comes to mind as a place to live....


And there is another side to the argument that Judges "write" laws. If the public disagrees with an interpretation, it's Congresses job to re-write the laws to correct. That's THEIR job. And that includes going so far as constitutional amendments.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 12:49 PM   #18
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post


And there is another side to the argument that Judges "write" laws. If the public disagrees with an interpretation, it's Congresses job to re-write the laws to correct. That's THEIR job. And that includes going so far as constitutional amendments.

Laws initiated by a congress and finalized by a president are verrrry difficult to change. So your reference to " Congresses job to re-write the laws" may be factual, although extremely difficult to make happen. Elections have consequences! Time to get judges to leave their social thoughts home and abide with the constitution at work
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2018, 02:09 AM   #19
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,315
My winter port is Oregon. Sales tax is a big reason. My income isn't taxable so the state income tax doesn't get me.
In sales tax states some counties have different rates. If there was a federal sales tax the states wouldn't drop theirs. I can't think of any sales tax ever getting reduced. It just goes up.
The problem with congress fixing anything is they only really answer to their big donors. And those donors get exemptions.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 02:43 PM   #20
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
And I don't know about others, but not having to pay sales tax is only a minor consideration when I decide where to buy something. Product quality, availability, and price I think are the key consideration, in that order. Sales tax has only a minor impact on price. My point is that the only way I'll buy more locally is if availability and quality of product gets better. 9 out of 10 times when I order by mail, it's because of availability of what I want. If I could buy it locally, I would/do.

In many places the local and state sales tax can amount to 10%. That makes a $100 item now $110. That is certainly enough to influence my buying decision.

As a non-lawyer, it seems to me that the actual sale takes place where the purchase was initiated or delivered. As such, the local sales tax should be collected and paid. Not saying it is easy, but it certainly seems to be the right thing to do from my perspective. If states donít like it, they can always change their taxing structure.
__________________

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012