Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-20-2014, 07:44 AM   #1
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Rescue bill for "rescue"

This seems to be a regular thing lately.

Cheaply built boat sailed by unprepared crew who didn't know boat was unfit for sea ... too cheap to call commercial assistance, turned down "rescue" because rescuer was going the wrong direction and we pay the bill.

now what the EFF is this nonsense all about? - Page 4
__________________
Advertisement

RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 08:49 AM   #2
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Unfortunately the only answer is hearings and rules and penalties to keep this from happening (but only to a point) and it's a slippery slope for the government.

The USCG is fully funded for a year as a multi-mission organization and whether they trade off doing a drug patrol in circles for days or do a recue tow....no more money is generally spent than would be anyhow.

The USCG is not like other military branches that need increased funding levels to go beyond their normal "work-ups" or excercises or assist in SAR (not sure where that funding comes from...they may be able to ask for supplemental funding) when involved in big SAR cases)...also not sure how the Nat Guard is funded for public assistance missions...

But unless something has drastically changes and I missed the news story...the USCG gets plenty of money to do SAR...it's usually money to keep things running or purchase new that the USCG historically got screwed on...now that they are a big cog in homeland security...not sure how they are doing getting new/upgraded stuff.
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 10:37 AM   #3
Guru
 
Off Duty's Avatar
 
City: Tampa
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Unfortunately the only answer is hearings and rules and penalties to keep this from happening (but only to a point) and it's a slippery slope for the government.
There are presently such mechanisms in place for reimbursement to the government (from local on up) for criminal investigations, and as I recall, there are similar policies that allow for reimbursement for assistance, ie: Rescue, especially in cases of negligence. Not sure why the USCG can't or won't take advantage of those? Some things can't be foretold. For those people, help SHOULD be free (taxpayer dime).

For the rest, (IMHO) stupid should get expensive!

Quote:
The USCG is not like other military branches that need increased funding levels to go beyond their normal "work-ups" or excercises or assist in SAR (not sure where that funding comes from...they may be able to ask for supplemental funding) when involved in big SAR cases)...also not sure how the Nat Guard is funded for public assistance missions...
The last I knew, the National Guard get's it's funding from multiple sources including the DOD budget, Homeland Security, and the individual States. As I recall, funding for a particular mission is determined by the activating authority, i.e.: FEMA, DOD Activations, Homeland Security or the Governor of the Home State. The last I read, if for example, Florida sends NG Troops to Ga. to assist with flooding under a STATE mutual aid agreement, Ga. offsets the cost. If the whole ball of wax ends up under FEMA, then the feds pic up the tab. Things may have changed though?

Quote:
But unless something has drastically changes and I missed the news story...the USCG gets plenty of money to do SAR...it's usually money to keep things running or purchase new that the USCG historically got screwed on...now that they are a big cog in homeland security...not sure how they are doing getting new/upgraded stuff.
You said a mouthful there my friend!
I don't think we ever had enough money for our overall tasks.
Everything from maintaining ATONs, to Environmental Protection, Commercial Vessel Safety, COTP, SAR, LE... Command was always bitching about concerns over fuel cost/usage, maintenance, need for newer equipment, training...Then factor in the cost for reserves and auxiliary mission requirements, and

It didn't help that at times, the gov't couldn't figure out what to do with us, bouncing us around through the years to DOR, DOT, DOD (as appropriate), and now HS???

Add to that at least one occasion where we had a hand wringing panty waist for a commandant who didn't care for our military or LE function at all! If given the option, he would have disarmed the CG, pulled us out of the military and LE functions all together, and had us chasing SAR calls, oil spills and lights.

They do seem to have a bit better funding after going under HS though, at least on the LE side of things.

Let's see how it holds out?

OD
Off Duty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 10:38 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Tampa, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Duty View Post
For the rest, (IMHO) stupid should get expensive!
Agree absolutely!
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 10:47 AM   #5
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
The only problem with the label "stupid" is that it can be applied to anyone when something goes wrong...especially the average boater...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 10:51 AM   #6
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Duty View Post
Add to that at least one occasion where we had a hand wringing panty waist for a commandant who didn't care for our military or LE function at all! If given the option, he would have disarmed the CG, pulled us out of the military and LE functions all together, and had us chasing SAR calls, oil spills and lights.
Pantywaist? Why? Because he saw what a waste of tax money, people, and resources it was to duplicate what other agencies do (so they claim)so much better?

Let the real military play soldier and sailors, let the water cops (and the hundred other gun toting jackboots in center consoles) keep us safe from whatever they find offensive and let the CG do what they do really well - rescue people in distress.

The CG is doing an abysmal job of merchant marine oversight and by the sound of things, their SAR efforts are hindered by wannabe admirals and self styled defenders of the American way.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 02:19 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Richard W's Avatar
 
City: Florida USA and Ontario Canada
Country: The 3rd Rock from the Sun
Vessel Name: anytime
Vessel Model: 2007 Chaparral 270 Signature LOA 29'
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 303
The problem in US is, in general, with multiple organizations/departments/divisions overlapping in territory and mission/function. Dispose illegally a cigarette butt in a train station and three different police forces show up, in addition to firefighters and paramedics. Poop in the water and CG, LE State, LE Local, FWC, EPA, and a few other acronyms might show up ... you get the idea.

The CG was, and still is, the only organization trained, equipped, and capable of addressing end-to-end all types of emergencies on the water, including most notably search and rescue. I wish they would stick with the original mission and left heavy machine guns and homeland security chases to other existing branches of government.
__________________
Best ... Richard
Richard W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 03:08 PM   #8
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
The problem in US is, in general, with multiple organizations/departments/divisions overlapping in territory and mission/function. Dispose illegally a cigarette butt in a train station and three different police forces show up, in addition to firefighters and paramedics. Poop in the water and CG, LE State, LE Local, FWC, EPA, and a few other acronyms might show up ... you get the idea.

The CG was, and still is, the only organization trained, equipped, and capable of addressing end-to-end all types of emergencies on the water, including most notably search and rescue. I wish they would stick with the original mission and left heavy machine guns and homeland security chases to other existing branches of government.
Immediately after the American Revolutionary War the new United States was struggling to stay afloat financially. National income was desperately needed, and the government determined that a great deal of this income would come from import tariffs. Because of rampant smuggling, the need was immediate for strong enforcement of tariff laws, and on August 4, 1790, the United States Congress, urged on by Secretary of the TreasuryAlexander Hamilton, created the Revenue-Marine, later renamed the Revenue Cutter Service by act of July 31, 1894 (28 Stat. 171).[1][2] It would be the responsibility of the new Revenue-Marine to enforce the tariff and all other maritime laws. In 1832, Secretary of the Treasury Louis McLane issued written orders for revenue cutters to conduct winter cruises to assist mariners in need, and Congress made the practice an official part of regulations in 1837. This was the beginning of the lifesaving mission for which the later U.S. Coast Guard would be best known worldwide.

the Revenue-Marine was the only armed maritime service of the United States, as the Navy had been disbanded.



psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 03:27 PM   #9
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
the Revenue-Marine was the only armed maritime service of the United States, as the Navy had been disbanded.
Now that the Navy has been rebanded and we have more jackboots on the water than you can shake a fish at, it's a good time to disarm the coasties and let them take care of what they do so very well, SAR.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 04:19 PM   #10
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
The really scary mission the USCG has....did you know???...they have the low level, low speed intercept mission over Wash, DC....anything too low and slow for the F-15/16s get gunned out of the sky by heavily armed USCG helicopters.....

The helos are out of Atlantic City but rotated in/out of Wash national (I think...they used to be)...they picked up that mission just as I was getting out.

If ever in Cape May County, you can watch them practicing intercepts on each other and I guess USCGAUX light aircraft on a regular basis.

I would NOT want to be the bozo that tries to ram a light plane into something in Wash, DC...I'm sure that Coastie flight crew would be pumped to be the "first"...

Coast Guard Choppers Intercept Small Plane Near US Capital at NYCAviation
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 04:39 PM   #11
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
The really scary mission the USCG has....did you know???...they have the low level, low speed intercept mission over Wash, DC....anything too low and slow for the F-15/16s get gunned out of the sky by heavily armed USCG helicopters...
As if the military assets in the area aren't better equipped and trained to do it themselves. It sounds like a bon bon to keep some CG admiral feeling like he has a defence role. Nothing quite so manly as herding a lost student in a C-172 away from that tall pointy landmark near the big dome thing.

When they were developing the intercept techiques and calibrating the radars used to identify a "threat" they used a pair of BD5Js that shared hanger space with my Starduster Too in ESN. They had some amazing hardware to record the flight data in real time outside the hanger. Nice guys with a fun job but one of them was killed in a crash at OXB.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #12
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
I'm just pissed I missed all the fun...

Closest I ever got to put anything for my "Military Expertise" mark on my evaluation report (yep - invented by some wannabe gunslinging admiral or one of his weenies) was dropping sono-buoys in the middle of the North Pacific practicing sub location with the USCG 378 foot cutters.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 04:51 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Richard W's Avatar
 
City: Florida USA and Ontario Canada
Country: The 3rd Rock from the Sun
Vessel Name: anytime
Vessel Model: 2007 Chaparral 270 Signature LOA 29'
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 303
Which one is more suitable for intercept and destroy mission? This ...



... or this?

__________________
Best ... Richard
Richard W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 04:57 PM   #14
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
All you have to do now is cruise around Puget Sound and see all the Coasties in the new, high-powered RIBs with the .50 Cal mounted on the bow. They are all in camo or black, vests, sidearms. If they had to jump in the water to save someone, they would sink.

Back in the early days of the "War on Drugs, early 80's, had a friend who was a CO of a cutter out of Miami. They got an order to shoot at a drug boat to disable it using their deck guns. He said the whole crew was lined up to take a turn at firing! They had never got to shoot anything before!
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:00 PM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
Which one is more suitable for intercept and destroy mission? This ...



... or this?
Actually over the crowded capital...the USCG helos properly armed...as was decided by a panel of experts....

in short....minimize collateral damage
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:04 PM   #16
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by THD View Post
All you have to do now is cruise around Puget Sound and see all the Coasties in the new, high-powered RIBs with the .50 Cal mounted on the bow. They are all in camo or black, vests, sidearms. If they had to jump in the water to save someone, they would sink.

Back in the early days of the "War on Drugs, early 80's, had a friend who was a CO of a cutter out of Miami. They got an order to shoot at a drug boat to disable it using their deck guns. He said the whole crew was lined up to take a turn at firing! They had never got to shoot anything before!
in the 80's .... EVERY cutter got to shoot at drug boats...

it was like fish in a barrel...if you took your eyes off the radar for a night in the passes...you would probably collide with a drug boat back then.

I was deployed to several cutters that shot to disable and finally sink after persons and drugs were recovered...very common back in the early 80's.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #17
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
in the 80's .... EVERY cutter got to shoot at drug boats...

That's how we won the "drug war."
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:34 PM   #18
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,995
Greetings,
Mr. RickB...Should have waited another 6 minutes to post THAT reply.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:36 PM   #19
Guru
 
Off Duty's Avatar
 
City: Tampa
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by THD View Post
All you have to do now is cruise around Puget Sound and see all the Coasties in the new, high-powered RIBs with the .50 Cal mounted on the bow. They are all in camo or black, vests, sidearms. If they had to jump in the water to save someone, they would sink.
Dark navy blue, not black, and Uh, no...they wouldn't

Quote:
Back in the early days of the "War on Drugs, early 80's, had a friend who was a CO of a cutter out of Miami. They got an order to shoot at a drug boat to disable it using their deck guns. He said the whole crew was lined up to take a turn at firing! They had never got to shoot anything before!
Was that the idiots (dopers, not the coasties) in the Windward Passage?
We had a video we used to use at various LE shows that was similar, and happened about the same time period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Actually over the crowded capital...the USCG helos properly armed...as was decided by a panel of experts....
in short....minimize collateral damage
I'm not disagreeing, just saying...1) Anything that comes out of a panel of anything in Washington is Suspect
2) Ex=Has been, Spert (Spurt)= A drip under pressure
Off Duty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 05:41 PM   #20
Guru
 
Off Duty's Avatar
 
City: Tampa
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
Which one is more suitable for intercept and destroy mission? This ...



... or this?

Guess it really depends on "what" they're intercepting?
The craft I can think of right off hand that would fit that category are minimal. A Cessna 150?, an ultra light? Maybe a UAV? Maybe another helo?

Any of which I would think the gunship could dispatch with relative ease and accuracy.

I'm more inclined to believe our panel of experts were looking for a scapegoat. Don't endanger the DOD programs with civilian casualties. Throw the coast guard under the bus

Just a thought...
__________________

Off Duty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012