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Old 01-24-2014, 11:52 AM   #41
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The actions of a handful of Coasties during WW2...
LOL- Ok, you can have it your way
U.S. Coast Guard World War II Combat Victories

Ok, upon review I guess you're right. Their role was pretty insignificant I guess...
Douglas Albert Munro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Douglas Munro[edit]

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In the Second Battle of the Matanikau, part of the Guadalcanal Campaign, Munro was in charge of a detachment of ten boats which landed U.S. Marines at the scene. After successfully taking them ashore, he returned his boats to their previously assigned position and almost immediately learned that conditions ashore were different than had been anticipated and that it was necessary to evacuate the Marines immediately. Munro volunteered for the job and brought the boats to shore under heavy enemy fire, then proceeded to evacuate the men on the beach. When most of them were in the boats, complications arose in evacuating the last men, whom Munro realized would be in the greatest danger. He accordingly placed himself and his boats such that they would serve as cover for the last men to leave. Among the Marines evacuated that day was LTC Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC.[2] It was thus that Munro was fatally wounded—protecting the men after he had evacuated them. He remained conscious sufficiently long only to say four words: "Did they get off ?".[1]
Munro is buried at Laurel Hill Memorial Park in Cle Elum, Washington
Douglas Albert Munro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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A Navy destroyer escort, USS Douglas A. Munro (DE-422), was named in his honor in 1944. The cutter USCGC Munro (WHEC-724) was commissioned in 1971, and is still on active service.
Of course theres:

Vietnam?
THE COAST GUARD IN VIETNAM

Desert Shield/Storm, OEF, Afghanistan, et al...
History of the United States Coast Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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On 24 April 2004, Petty Officer 3rd Class Nathan B. Bruckenthal, 24, from the USS Firebolt (PC-10), became the first Coast Guardsman to die in combat since the Vietnam War. He was killed in a suicide boat attack on a Basra oil terminal off the coast of Iraq. With his death, all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces had seen at least one death in that war. At the height of the conflict, the Coast Guard deployed over 1,200 men and women,including about 500 reservists, 11 ships(two large cutters, a buoy tender, eight patrol boats) 4 port-security units, a law enforcement detachments and support staff to the Central (CENTCOM) and European (EUCOM) Command to the theater to conduct maritime interception operations and coastal security patrols in Iraq and Kuwait.[41] During Operation New Dawn, Coast Guard Reserve units have deployed to the Middle East. The Coast Guard is charged with providing harbor defense and security to ports, seaward approaches, and waterways within U.S. Central Command’s area of responsibility and ensuring the free flow of personnel, equipment and commerce in the region.[42
and we could go on, but why?

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I think you may have missed the point by a wide margin.
I didn't miss your point Rick.
I understand that the cost of doing business is high, and that there's useless spending in ALL areas of government, from law enforcement, to the "real military", on down to the desk jockey's and "thinkers" (politicians).
We need a major overhaul to get it together, and it's probably not going to happen in our lifetime.

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Full List of Armed Federal Agencies | The Truth About Guns

Federal law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I could go on nearly forever listing the water cops, duck cops, cat cops, county cops, city cops, library cops, airport cops, port cops, bank cops, park cops, parking lot cops, grocery store cops, private cops ... the list won't stop growing until the each of us is assigned an armed handler.
Again, no disagreement from me. Poor fiscal management abounds.

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I understand that as an ex cop of some sort, you are sensitive to anyone critical of any police organization
That's an irresponsible assumption IMHO, but you're welcome to it
Frankly, the opposite is true, and I've been quite vocal about it for years.
You will find that in fact, due to my background, I'm highly critical of a lot of what we do (and do not do) in law enforcement.

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so let's just stick to the point that taxpayer money is wasted providing free transportation to nautical fools by an agency that has more on its plate than it can handle or, in my opinion, should even be assigned.
A lot of money is spent on stupid across the board.

Have a great day Rick
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:20 PM   #42
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Ok, upon review I guess you're right. Their role was pretty insignificant I guess...
Why does that make me right? I never wrote or even implied that "their role was pretty insignificant" those are your words and your sentiments alone. You wrote 'em, you own 'em.

I wrote: "The actions of a handful of Coasties during WW2 does not obligate the nation to dishonor a single part of its history or the actions of its former members, it just stops the pointless waste of our treasury. Our history is filled with deactivated agencies and military units that outlived their purpose. "

Perhaps the wording is a bit convoluted but it means that deactivating a duplicated and surplus military component does not dishonor the men and women who served it in the past.

Don't even think about attributing that sentiment to me in order to discredit my firm belief that we are overloaded with cops and an obscene military budget that serves no one in this nation other than "big brother," defense contractors and their uniformed accomplices.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:30 PM   #43
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The English are getting out of the SAR business as a military or RAF flying the mission and have elected to punt it to the civilian contractors:

http://bristowsar.com/index.php/uk-search-and-rescue/

The jury is out if it will be successful.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #44
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For my former Coastie buddies Psneeld and Off Duty...



Name:  image-3828477493.jpg
Views: 110
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Hehehe sorry couldn't resist.

Squid....
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:50 PM   #45
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When the job gets tough enough...the costs of civilian contractor or military get very close. Sure...lot's of jobs are cheaper farmed out...but when the doo doo hits the fan, civilian wages skyrocket. Several USCG missions (I was involved in the Aids to Navigation one) were test bedded for civilian takeover...after a year with only a partial takeover the civilian contractors were more expensive.

I'd like to see the comparison done now with a lot of the aids and lights totally reengineered for longer life and aids being less important for instant fixing with GPS now....maybe the civilian contracts would become competitive again.

Then again...there are just some jobs that the USCG and all military outfits have to keep because you can't keep a guy at sea for 24/7/365 for a 30 year career or in combat/high threat areas for the same. So you have rotational jobs which by definition might be wasteful but necessary to keep the machine working.

Sure there are other ways...but no one really has a model that I know of that truly works.

As previously mentioned....if you just eliminated bad decisions and waste, plus really cut back the garbage equipment shoved down the military's/USCG's throats by politicians and bad military contractors....that waste alone would pay for what you did keep and I swear cut the total cost of the military juggernaut by 50%.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:51 PM   #46
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For my former Coastie buddies Psneeld and Off Duty...



Attachment 26851


Hehehe sorry couldn't resist.

Squid....
Reminds me of me when they said I had Icebreaker Duty for 3 years....
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:03 PM   #47
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The English are getting out of the SAR business ...

And turning it over to a Texas based company ...

British search and rescue services to be run by US company | UK news | theguardian.com


"Bristow Group Inc. in Houston, TX has a long history of SAR services through its UK subsidiary, beginning in 1971 and extending to 2007, when CHC took the Coast Guard’s contract away from them. Over that history, their helicopters have flown more than 44,000 SAR operational hours in the UK, and conducted over 15,000 SAR missions."
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:33 PM   #48
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For my former Coastie buddies Psneeld and Off Duty...



Attachment 26851


Hehehe sorry couldn't resist.

Squid....
Smart ass!
Hey, come on now. We were a Para-Civilian Service and you know it
I liked the puddle patrol....having facial hair for a long time before they changed their minds, was ok with me.

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Old 01-24-2014, 04:35 PM   #49
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Hehehe
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:49 PM   #50
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Why does that make me right? I never wrote or even implied that "their role was pretty insignificant" those are your words and your sentiments alone. You wrote 'em, you own 'em....
It was a reference back to your "real military" (soldiers/sailors) comment.
Told you to check your history, and that's what you gave me back. So your call man.

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I wrote: "The actions of a handful of Coasties during WW2 does not obligate the nation to dishonor a single part of its history or the actions of its former members, it just stops the pointless waste of our treasury. Our history is filled with deactivated agencies and military units that outlived their purpose. "

Perhaps the wording is a bit convoluted but it means that deactivating a duplicated and surplus military component does not dishonor the men and women who served it in the past.
Perhaps? Heck man, I read that thing a dozen times, and still couldn't figure out what you meant. That's why I asked (read my response).

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Don't even think about attributing that sentiment to me in order to discredit my firm belief that we are overloaded with cops and an obscene military budget that serves no one in this nation other than "big brother," defense contractors and their uniformed accomplices.
Your concern over BB is going to give you a heart attack. I agree that we spend too much on insignificant things and personnel. Just like the Federal Shutdown recently. It wasn't a popular thought, but if we have that many "non-essential-personnel", then we probably have too many people!.
I don't "hate" our government, and I don't necessarily blame the cops or military personnel (the boots on the ground types) for it's problems within those agencies. I do blame the administration from top to bottom, for allowing it to become and stay this way. One BIG SUCKING/BLEEDING/FESTERING WOUND on the pocketbook of society.

Look my friend. Your belief is your belief, and I'm not going to change it, very much like you probably won't change mine. That said, if you'd stop for a moment and read, you'd see that we actually agree on more than a few points regarding duplication, budget (especially budget!), and services.

Right now, you have CG small boats, Navy Small Boats, Army Boats, hell, even the freaking Air Force has a Navy! ...Why?
While they can all be "justified", why should they?

FWIW, if the CG were contracted out, I'd sign up in a millisecond if I could.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #51
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Reminds me of me when they said I had Icebreaker Duty for 3 years....
Hehe. Yea I learned that there are actually THREE different Coast Guards... White Hulls, Black Hulls and Red Hulls..
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Old 01-24-2014, 05:22 PM   #52
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Hehe. Yea I learned that there are actually THREE different Coast Guards... White Hulls, Black Hulls and Red Hulls..
usually surface, air and staff...but those are 3 subdivisions....
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:02 PM   #53
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I will admit to not reading this entire thread.

But I dare ask..............does the military have a union?
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:22 PM   #54
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No ....but a couple thousand retired snipers must have some pull when it comes to dealing with matters going against the military/retirees....
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:33 PM   #55
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Hehe. Yea I learned that there are actually THREE different Coast Guards... White Hulls, Black Hulls and Red Hulls..
Racists and insensitive! I doth protest!

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usually surface, air and staff...but those are 3 subdivisions....
Aw hell! Another subdivision! Now my wife's gonna want to look at the houses....

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I will admit to not reading this entire thread.

But I dare ask..............does the military have a union?
Smart man...and no
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:01 PM   #56
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AMSA(Aust Marine Safety Authority) has co-ordinated some extraordinary rescues in the southern waters of Australia, the most memorable involve solo sailors on round the world voyages. Every time there is discussion about "user pays". It costs so much, deploying the Navy, search helicopters, long range search aircraft, most could never pay, but we celebrate a successful rescue. I wonder if sailors can insure the risk, probably not. When someone has to be rescued, they have to be rescued.
We just rescued pax. off a chartered Russian small ship caught in ice while researching in Antarctica, with help from a Chinese icebreaker (it got stuck too) helicopter. Cost Aust. around $2.5M, the ship was eventually freed by ice movement. Will the cost be recovered? Here`s hoping.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:13 PM   #57
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Civilization will probably always have a mechanism for rescuing even fools...the trick is to make it as cost efficient ass possible..I understand Rick's point and would have loved to been in charge of cutting fools and waste..maybe I would have been first on my list...but I know the suggestions I made through the years more than paid my salary, retirement and med plan for the next 100 years so I feel pretty good...I wish I could say the same for all I served with.

The real costs come when a helo or plane and crew is lost....just the wasted man hours alone in investigations, safety standowns, bad safety idea implementation after the fact, hearings, hand wringing...etc...etc...

I think I enjoyed the reputation from my crews that I would always bring them home.....risking a great SAR resource worth millions and a crew of 4 to possibly save one or two idiotic boaters at extreme risk to the helo crew never added up to me...I would try...and I worked my butt off at being good at what I did so any attempt was a valiant one...but I refused to kill 4 good souls and a helo to possibly save a few knuckleheads. Kids, women and children, hundreds going in the water...sure...maximum effort and that's what we trained for and paid for...the public would have expected no less...but turn the table and even heroic rescues are plain stupidity when the odds are against the rescue crew from the get go and the rescues did nothing in their powers to save themselves.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:24 PM   #58
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...even heroic rescues are plain stupidity when the odds are against the rescue crew from the get go and the rescues did nothing in their powers to save themselves.
Very true, and if you have to rescue the rescuer, you haven't helped anyone, and then what have you accomplished?

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:42 PM   #59
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Very true, and if you have to rescue the rescuer, you haven't helped anyone, and then what have you accomplished?
In the recent incident I quoted in #56 above, at one time the Aust vessel tried to free the Chinese ship also involved in the rescue attempts. Special rescue obligations apply in the Antarctic. Often it becomes "whatever it takes" but no way should rescuers endanger themselves. In offshore sailboat races there are obligations to assist competitors in trouble (with allowances for time spent) but not if it puts the rescuer in danger. Most will help, as much as circumstances allow.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:29 PM   #60
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Civilization will probably always have a mechanism for rescuing even fools...the trick is to make it as cost efficient ass possible..I understand Rick's point and would have loved to been in charge of cutting fools and waste..maybe I would have been first on my list...but I know the suggestions I made through the years more than paid my salary, retirement and med plan for the next 100 years so I feel pretty good...I wish I could say the same for all I served with.

The real costs come when a helo or plane and crew is lost....just the wasted man hours alone in investigations, safety standowns, bad safety idea implementation after the fact, hearings, hand wringing...etc...etc...

I think I enjoyed the reputation from my crews that I would always bring them home.....risking a great SAR resource worth millions and a crew of 4 to possibly save one or two idiotic boaters at extreme risk to the helo crew never added up to me...I would try...and I worked my butt off at being good at what I did so any attempt was a valiant one...but I refused to kill 4 good souls and a helo to possibly save a few knuckleheads. Kids, women and children, hundreds going in the water...sure...maximum effort and that's what we trained for and paid for...the public would have expected no less...but turn the table and even heroic rescues are plain stupidity when the odds are against the rescue crew from the get go and the rescues did nothing in their powers to save themselves.
Concur
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