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Old 01-21-2014, 05:42 PM   #21
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The only problem with the label "stupid" is that it can be applied to anyone when something goes wrong...especially the average boater...
Ok, I see what you mean. Maybe I should have said the "negligently stupid." Those that should have known better, can afford to do better, and refused. Guess I should have qualified the statement.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #22
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I wish they would stick with the original mission...
They did...
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Immediately after the American Revolutionary War the new United States was struggling to stay afloat financially. National income was desperately needed, and the government determined that a great deal of this income would come from import tariffs. Because of rampant smuggling, the need was immediate for strong enforcement of tariff laws, and on August 4, 1790, the United States Congress, urged on by Secretary of the TreasuryAlexander Hamilton, created the Revenue-Marine, later renamed the Revenue Cutter Service by act of July 31, 1894 (28 Stat. 171).[1][2] It would be the responsibility of the new Revenue-Marine to enforce the tariff and all other maritime laws. In 1832, Secretary of the Treasury Louis McLane issued written orders for revenue cutters to conduct winter cruises to assist mariners in need, and Congress made the practice an official part of regulations in 1837. This was the beginning of the lifesaving mission for which the later U.S. Coast Guard would be best known worldwide.

the Revenue-Marine was the only armed maritime service of the United States, as the Navy had been disbanded.
Good one!
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:10 PM   #23
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Pantywaist? Why? Because he saw what a waste of tax money, people, and resources it was to duplicate what other agencies do (so they claim)so much better?...
No. Because he was a hand wringing MOFO that would have been better suited to the Peace Corps (No intended offense to anyone who has served with the Peace Corps. - You probably have larger cojones than most of us, and thanks for your service.)
BTW-exactly which agencies would that be sur?

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Let the real military play soldier and sailors, let the water cops (and the hundred other gun toting jackboots in center consoles) keep us safe from whatever they find offensive and let the CG do what they do really well - rescue people in distress.
What an unbelievable statement...
Oh, and check your maritime history.

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The CG is doing an abysmal job of merchant marine oversight...
Now there's a job that could be turned over to an administrative civilian authority and serve everyone better. Actually, while on the subject, we could turn nearly ALL of the investigative functions (ie: Pollution Prevention, Oil Spill Investigations, Commercial and Cruise Ship Inspections, etc.), over to a civilian administrative group and save money and manpower. You might be surprised how many people like that kind of thing, and would hand over their guns to do this in a heartbeat.

CGI and all criminal investigation/intell work, could be outsourced to one of the existing Federal Agencies. Let the USCG go back to doing what they were designed to do...Enforce maritime law (on the water), protect American maritime assets here and abroad, and through administrative edict as stated above, SAR.

But since you brought it up, and not that I disagree with you, but please. How so?

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...and by the sound of things, their SAR efforts are hindered by wannabe admirals and self styled defenders of the American way.
I'm (almost) speechless

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Now that the Navy has been rebanded and we have more jackboots on the water than you can shake a fish at, it's a good time to disarm the coasties and let them take care of what they do so very well, SAR.
There's soooooo much that could be said, but I like it here, so......
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Old 01-21-2014, 06:35 PM   #24
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There's soooooo much that could be said, but I like it here, so......

Ahh, why not just loosen the old boot laces and relax. Tell us how you really feel about people who lack enthusiasm for the growing American police state.

And there really isn't much more that could be said that isn't a rehash of Nuremberg or the Hague. The authoritarians (of any and all ilk) sing the same songs and claim the same justifications we have heard for generations.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:31 PM   #25
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They did...
Good one!
Perhaps we are diverging from the meaning by quoting back from really ancient part of US history. Let me rephrase this ...

I wish they would stick with the original mission of the USCG ...
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:38 PM   #26
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Ahh, why not just loosen the old boot laces and relax. Tell us how you really feel about people who lack enthusiasm for the growing American police state.

And there really isn't much more that could be said that isn't a rehash of Nuremberg or the Hague. The authoritarians (of any and all ilk) sing the same songs and claim the same justifications we have heard for generations.

I'm actually very relaxed. I enjoy a good debate. Just not much for purposeless bashing. that said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
FWIW, I'm not big on "police states" either, and am very watchful of our government as a whole and many it's self serving practices. Remember the phrase "we're from the government, and we're here to help" hardly ever starts off a "good" thing
I just happen to think that in this case, you're either off base or ill informed on the CG matter. Then again, it's your dime and your time brother

The fact is, if we took the USCG back to where it began, you'd probably have more to complain about due to the revenue enforcement actions from whence they came.

Anyway, no harm no foul. Just sorry you see that you have such distrust or apparent disdain for them overall.

On the other hand, I do have a hidden stash of tin foil if you want some extra

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Old 01-21-2014, 09:01 PM   #27
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Perhaps we are diverging from the meaning by quoting back from really ancient part of US history. Let me rephrase this ...

I wish they would stick with the original mission of the USCG ...
Oh you mean the Steamship Inspection Service...or was it the Lighthouse Service...I forget which one of those came right after the Revenue Cutter Service....

SAR really came pretty late in the USCG's history...yes the Life Saving Service was absorbed but the pressure and funding for most other USCG missions usually came first...

http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/46176
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:56 PM   #28
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Oh you mean the Steamship Inspection Service...or was it the Lighthouse Service...I forget which one of those came right after the Revenue Cutter Service....

SAR really came pretty late in the USCG's history...yes the Life Saving Service was absorbed but the pressure and funding for most other USCG missions usually came first...

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Dang dude!
Even I forgot about that!
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:08 AM   #29
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When I was 14 working on a crab boat near Charleston, SC my boss and I rescued a "rich guy" in sport fisherman. It was his second time being rescued by Capt'n Joe.

I was told the first time the guy was unfortunate. The second time a damn fool.

1st one free - we've been contributing to the kitty all our working lives.
The rest....................pay up.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:58 AM   #30
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Funny you mention that.
In 84, I was assigned to the Terrorism Taskforce during the Summer Olympics in Cali.

We had this dude with more $$$ than sense, or just arrogant as it turned out, that ran his go fast out of fuel. A ridiculously priced speed boat and a non-working fuel gauge? Right!
Anyway, because of what and were we had to tow him out of the area twice. The command was pissed, so when he did it again, and he did, we let him sit until dusk. Not so bad if it hadn't been 100 degrees in the shade on a windless day....in an open boat We checked on him once an hour to make sure his vessel was still keeping water out, and he hadn't passed out!

He was upset to beat hell! So, since he was already pissed off, on the way in we boarded and cited him for a few violations.

Don't know what if anything they did with him, or really care. And I don't know if he was charged for the tow, but....he didn't run out of fuel again
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:05 AM   #31
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Sort of on the topic

Having watched two excellent, but heavy movies the last few days, “Lone Survivor” yesterday and “Blackfish” Friday, and just finishing the book, “When Thunder Rolled” by Ed Rasimus (probably one of the best non-fiction narrative of a pilot I have ever read [right after the Robin Olds book]), I am again reminded of the stupidity of the bureaucracy in the U.S. military and the greediness of American corporations (SeaWorld). What is also unsaid in “Lone Survivor” (the book is far superior and a must read, if you really care), is that the powers to be, both political and military, ignored special operations as much as they could until 9-11. It was a career ender for any officer and never given the resources they really needed. And when they were really needed (Iran Rescue Attempt) the idiots in the White House, let the bureaucrats in the military divide the operation like it was a birthday cake, so no one’s feelings were hurt (Navy) and we ended up with mine sweeping pilots and helicopters flying over the dessert.
Enough said, thank you for indulging me.

Richard, ready to get back to Dauntless and out of the cold
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:08 AM   #32
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.. let the CG do what they do really well - rescue people in distress. ...
Ready to help when you're in distress:



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Old 01-22-2014, 07:13 AM   #33
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:28 AM   #34
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Ready to help when you're in distress:
Can I get one for personal pleasure? Just yank those Hondas off, and throw some verados on.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:53 AM   #35
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Can I get one for personal pleasure? Just yank those Hondas off, and throw some verados on.
Sure man, and all you'll need a quick $180k (MOL) to do it
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The Standard SAFE Boats Collar system has been proven, says the builder, to stop small arms fire from penetrating the side plate of the hull. With the addition of ballistic material either behind the collar or laminated in the collar, it can stop up to 7.62 mm.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:22 AM   #36
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Enlisting is way cheaper (for the short run)
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:46 PM   #37
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Enlisting is way cheaper (for the short run)
yeah,....kinda
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:09 PM   #38
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Oh you mean the Steamship Inspection Service...or was it the Lighthouse Service...I forget which one of those came right after the Revenue Cutter Service...
Who really cares? I don't know who or why the first original purpose or name of the CG came into the discussion. My point before it was deflected is that it is time to disarm the CG, remove its LE role along with its regulatory duties and let it be a SAR service ... that is the single thing it does exceedingly well that no one else can or wants to do.

That "pantywaist" saw the light and could have saved the taxpayer billions in stupid boat designs that don't work. We have enough military and cops to assign one to every citizen and at the rate we are going, probably will.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:13 PM   #39
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Who really cares? I don't know who or why the first original purpose or name of the CG came into the discussion.
Uh, it was the point of the OP thread I think?

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My point before it was deflected is that it is time to disarm the CG, remove its LE role along with its regulatory duties and let it be a SAR service ... that is the single thing it does exceedingly well that no one else can or wants to do.
So noted...

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That "pantywaist" saw the light and could have saved the taxpayer billions in stupid boat designs that don't work...
I will give you the one point RickB, that being the "stupid boat designs."
We saw the fiasco with the Island Class Cutters, and I'm sure there's been others. That's what happens when bean counters (no offense to CPA's, you are my best friends, especially as we draw closer to April 15th) get involved in vessel design!

And no, what that "pantywaist" saw a way to reduce the Coast Guards budget to a level where it would likely have become ineffective altogether. I'm sure that's not what he was thinking. Then again, I'm not real sure WTF he was thinking???

As psneeld stated, the Coast Guard is funded as a fully operational organization prepared to fulfill all of their stated duties. Start taking out pieces of the pie, and after while, there will be no pie left. Then you can start paying BIG bucks for the "real military" as I think you said, to step in and try to figure out how to do what the USCG does everyday. And once they get it figured out, then we can "simply" change the Constitution to allow them to do it. That out to place us one step closer to a National Police Force...how's that work for ya?

As for the "real military", you might want to review your combat history, as it pertains to the USCG. I'll know it, so rather than burden everyone with chest thumping, I'll leave it to you to do your own research.

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We have enough military and cops to assign one to every citizen and at the rate we are going, probably will
I think I see the issues.....

Have a good evening Rick
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:24 AM   #40
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Uh, it was the point of the OP thread I think?
Uh, no. As the OP my point and suggestion was that there should be a mechanism by which the taxpayer can recover the costs of a "rescue" in certain situations. The situation described in the OP is one such.


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...what that "pantywaist" saw a way to reduce the Coast Guards budget to a level where it would likely have become ineffective altogether.
No great loss. The near coastal SAR mission can be handled by a lifesaving service like that of the UK. The distant water portion could be managed by voluntary transfer of skilled CG personnel to "seed" military aviation units. It would give the zoomies some needed training while performing a more useful task.

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As for the "real military", you might want to review your combat history, as it pertains to the USCG.
The actions of a handful of Coasties during WW2 does not obligate the nation todishonor a single part of its history or the actions of its former members, it just stops the pointless waste of our treasury. Our history is filled with deactivated agencies and military units that outlived their purpose.


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I think I see the issues.....
I think you may have missed the point by a wide margin.

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I could go on nearly forever listing the water cops, duck cops, cat cops, county cops, city cops, library cops, airport cops, port cops, bank cops, park cops, parking lot cops, grocery store cops, private cops ... the list won't stop growing until the each of us is assigned an armed handler.

I understand that as an ex cop of some sort, you are sensitive to anyone critical of any police organization so let's just stick to the point that taxpayer money is wasted providing free transportation to nautical fools by an agency that has more on its plate than it can handle or, in my opinion, should even be assigned.
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