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Old 02-23-2017, 04:16 PM   #1
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Nutrition planning

Greetings,
I think this is a needed and natural offshoot of the meal planning thread. To answer Mr. L_t's comment on the necessity of salt...Yes, salt IS needed for healthy body function but the problem arises, as with a lot of food, that too much of a good thing isn't good.
While I'm not aware (yet) that I suffer from high blood pressure (hypertension), those that do are advised keep their salt intake to a lower level or risk exacerbating their condition.
Nutrition is a massive and ever increasing field. Food companies have been urged and in some cased legislated to produce food that is considered, according to the latest accepted research, healthier. One of the reasons we are seeing nutrition labeling on food is to help the consumer make educated choices WRT what they eat.
One can argue that they don't want the government telling them what is healthy for them but how is the average consumer to know unless they have some source of information?
I have observed that our diet is a bit different when we're aboard as compared to our dirt living and I don't think we're exceptional in that respect. Fewer fresher ingredients, probably more fats (more BBQ) and more alcohol (not personally) and larger servings (due to all that fresh air) seem to be the order of the day. Comments?
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:21 PM   #2
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My experience shows that the average nutritional "suggestions" are just that.

Each person is more tolerant or less to all kinds of things...food types just one of them.

We all have seen 90 plus year olds eat all the wrong foods their whole life but eat other things that no one we know would eat......cancellation process?

Then we see others that if they stray from a strict diet, they are sick and can barely function.

While broad guidelines are certainly worthy of consideration, one has to experiment and see what is working or not for them.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:37 PM   #3
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Sometimes, nutritional recommendation are, well recommendation.
I like to hear a doctor saying it is bad to have alcohol everyday... If it would be so bad French people would not exist anymore lol My beloved grand mother is 84, in great shape, taking care of her house and garden by herself and has her red wine glass at every diner. Her dad was the same and passed away at 97, her sister has 101 and brother around 90 so... They never followed any diet and went through hard time during their life but still are in great shape. The only noticeable difference... They were never exposed ( or almost never) to any pollutant, were eating what they were growing in the middle of Alps mountain. Fresh air, fresh food and no toxins. Nowadays everything looks dangerous, use butter to cook, dangerous, meat gives colorectal cancer, alcohol liver cancer etc... Just forget that we all have the most dangerous decease... Life, we are sure this one will kill us lol
Anyway I am in favor of eating fresh things, without any chimical as much as possible, and in reasonable quantity, but eat everything, cooked in every manner, the way you like.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:52 PM   #4
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I think one thing extremely important and often overlooked is to learn your own body well and how it reacts both short term and long term. That's not an easy task. However, I know my weight is influence very much by carbohydrates. If I gain 3 pounds, then I can cut carbs back a couple of days and get back where I want to be. Now, don't jump on me too much over the 3 pounds. I do believe in monitoring closely as if we start giving allowances to ourselves, pretty soon 3 turns to 6 to 12 to 25.

I can't handle spicy foods. I didn't grow up on them. My wife could handle them when we got married but going the years with me, now she isn't a fan of them. Therefore, I don't feel the need for adding salt even. Now, people who have always eaten spicier foods would be very troubled trying to eat bland all the time.

I think it's a given that some things in excess are bad for us, just determining what is excess is difficult. I try to watch salt and sugar and fried foods. Some interesting quirks though. We preach liquids and I drink water by the gallon, but people tending toward fluid retention or CHP could never do that.

I try to eat balanced. Now, I've read all the stuff on red meat. Don't want to agree so don't. I'm going to eat it more than recommended. However, I do eat other things regularly and try to achieve a balance. I like fresh fruits and melons but if I ate as much as I'd like I'd have a major weight issue from all the sugar. So, I balance, which works out great cruising as I have them shortly after leaving and then don't for a few days. We eat very little bread and most of what we do eat is wheat.

We also do have a family member living with us who handles the grocery purchasing and meal planning and she watches our excesses. We start out in the morning and she won't let us do breakfast drive through but insists she cook it. Yes, very spoiled. When we lived in NC, breakfast was always drive through.

Now we both exercise and don't say it's because we're young. I've seen people waiting for lung transplants exercising daily although the walk was aided and only around the living room. We have a very real fear of getting out of shape and not being able to get back in. We walk a lot and we take not of when we've had a couple of lazy days and at least do treadmill.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:12 PM   #5
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Having done 5 years of lightweight sports...a 200 pound human being can be up and down 5 pounds a day just in water weight.... 5/8 of a gallon of liquids.

I use to go up and down at least 20 pounds a week on just liquids and a few solids.

Do some lightweight sports and I swear you have doctorate in nutrition compared to what I read every day in the news.

Medical science can be amazing...it can also be complete BS.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:37 PM   #6
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Great thread RT,
Re the salt canned foods are loaded w salt. And canned foods are great for boating so it's a bit of a trap. Grabed a can of GF soup (we love good soup) and it's got 830 mg of salt per cup. Often you'll see low fat foods presented as a healthy choice but if you look at the label you'll see it's loaded w salt. It's hard to find canned food that's even slightly low in salt content. We never add salt to any food as one gets too much even doing (or not doing) that.

If you don't read labels you definitely will get too much sugar too. My ex wife weaned me off sugar a long time ago. A little bit at a time and one day she looked over my shoulder and said "are'nt ya gonna put sugar on it ?" re my bowl of cereal. Never do it and read the labels so don't get any.

Reading labels frequently wo'nt get you out of thr woods on either salt or sugar. There's lots of sugar in carrots and salt in celery. Like all things some is good lots is often bad.

Trail food prepackaged is mostly healthy but expensive.

Re moderation and excess meat and bread are popular on the beach or on the boat. Steak and fresh baked bread. Chris can do it in the oven on the boat but it quickly takes us away from the fruit and vegetables that we need and should have. Bread (sugar) and meat is easy to prepare and we rationalize that on the boat we're on vacation and can excess in treat food. Big mistake.

Chris should be writhing this not me. But the above is important if you're actually interested in nutrition.
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Old 02-23-2017, 05:48 PM   #7
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A six pack of Beer and some Beef Sausage, my idea of a 7 course meal.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:02 PM   #8
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I have a very simple system to decide whether food is healthy or not.
If it contains more than 3 ingredients, I try to avoid it, especially if I can't pronounce the ingredients.
The food we buy is very simple. Fresh fruit and vegetables of all types, plenty of fish, some chicken, good quality bread, pasta, lots of cheese & yogurt, nuts every day, small amounts of red meat (usually lamb or kangaroo).
We love spicy food, and have a garden full of herbs and chillies.
We keep processed foods to a minimum, and don't drink soft drinks or sports drinks of any type. Water, quality orange juice, a good ale or wine only. Maybe the odd nip of rum.
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:05 PM   #9
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Greetings,
Mr. NW. " My ex wife weaned me off sugar a long time ago." I guess that's why she's your X then...TMI
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Old 02-24-2017, 06:54 AM   #10
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If it contains more than 3 ingredients, I try to avoid it, especially if I can't pronounce the ingredients.

Maybe the odd nip of rum.

Similar to my approach to bar-tending. One ingredient is a decent goal. If it needs more than two ingredients, it's too much trouble.

Ice in an ingredient.

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Old 02-24-2017, 07:21 AM   #11
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The information is all out there but you have to look at unbiased sources. The US government is not unbiased especially when things like the "food pyramid" and RDA's are made from government boards where a majority come from the milk and dairy industries (two of the largest industries in the US). It turns out that it's not a surprise that milk continues to be on the list.

We're subjected to huge amounts of advertising. Protein/meat is needed for building muscle and reducing hunger; Milk builds strong bones. It's all lies and easily verified. Every food has protein - iceburg lettuce included. Map osteoporosis against milk consumption and you find that the more dairy a country consumes, the more osteoporosis they experience - dead on statistical tracking. Science even explains why milk causes bone decay, not building.

The World Health Organization doesn't appear to have the lobbying and board takeovers common in the US so their recommendations are generally pretty good. They're the ones who put processed meats in the exact same category as cigarettes for cancer causing. They also put regular meat into the "likely" cancer causing category because of the overwhelming proof.

There is as much proof about reducing or eliminating meat consumption today as there was about reducing cigarette smoking in 1963 (except the science is better today). And just as in 1963, much of the medical community hasn't gone along with it yet because doctors receive nearly no nutritional education in medical school. A bill in California required up'ing the nutritional education from 4 hours to a one semester class in California medical schools. It was defeated (through meat and dairy industry lobbying - which should shake everyone's head).

My wife had hypertension and started on the drugs to bring it down. As an EMT, I easily took BP readings every week. The early meds brought it down a little and outside the danger zone. A couple of years later, we started eating much better (no meat or dairy). Her BP reduced and she stopped with all meds. 5 years later, her BP is 120/80 with no drugs. We use plenty of salt - that's a BS remedy that reduces BP by a small amount and mostly kills flavor.

The equivalent of 5 jumbo jets full of passengers die every day in the US from cardiac disease. Every day. Can you imagine 1 plane crashing a month? The government would go crazy. And yet, we allow it to happen even though we know the cause. The science there is trivial - find populations with no cardiac disease and examine their lifestyle. It always comes down to diet.

The largest nutrition study ever done was "The China Study" with 600,000 subjects tracked over 30 years. It was run by Cornell University, Cambridge University, and the university in China. Multiple careers were spent collecting the data and analyzing it. It was finally published in 2011. It's a book everyone should read but no one has. If you look hard enough, you can find the pdf online for free. Or buy it for $10 from Amazon, Kindle, etc.

Probably the best website I've seen about unbiased nutrition info is nutritionfacts.org. There are a thousand articles and videos from a research MD who was fed up with the BS being put out when there was real science about it all. It explains a lot about many different human health issues.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:16 AM   #12
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Greetings,
Sorry Mr. JS, I disagree that "It's all lies...". I fear my attempts to get folks to think about "healthy" provisioning suggestions have failed. I would like to end the thread.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-...na-study-myth/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the...udy-revisited/

Just two, of dozens of, hits disputing the value of "The China Study". I do not wish to get into a nutrition argument. IF your food choices work for you, fine. RDI values are a guideline supported by valid science and are the only readily available (right on the package) sources of comparable information.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:46 AM   #13
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Greetings,
Sorry Mr. JS, I disagree that "It's all lies...". I fear my attempts to get folks to think about "healthy" provisioning suggestions have failed. I would like to end the thread.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-...na-study-myth/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the...udy-revisited/

Just two, of dozens of, hits disputing the value of "The China Study". I do not wish to get into a nutrition argument. IF your food choices work for you, fine. RDI values are a guideline supported by valid science and are the only readily available (right on the package) sources of comparable information.

Also, exercise helps, not only because of the food, I am trying hard to remain perched on new dietary recommendations. how much they may differ in different parts of the world, even if we have different names, the same sea


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Old 02-24-2017, 08:59 AM   #14
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If you read the label on anything in the US that claims to be healthy, you probably won't eat it.

FDA all too often goes on the assumption of GAS - Generally Assumed Safe. This means that they have been told by lots of people in the industry that it is safe, often the ones selling the product are the ones they listen to...

That is why we have GMO almost everything here and for the first time, have an expected lifetime of the current generation being shorter than the last one.

Look at all the advertising BelVita cookies are getting. Read the contents and you find it is totally a processed product claiming 4 hours of energy. Buyer beware!

On the other hand, nobody gets out alive. Everything in moderation except BBQ is my motto.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:04 AM   #15
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We have a simple system as well.

If it's a veggie or fruit, we only eat organic.
If it's dairy we only eat grass fed organic.
If it's meat, we do our best. Chicken is all organic. Beef is grass fed and organic when possible. Pork is, well we don't eat much pork but when we do it sure tastes good.
Fish and shellfish is guaranteed all organic, since we only eat what we catch.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:13 AM   #16
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If you read the label on anything in the US that claims to be healthy, you probably won't eat it.

FDA all too often goes on the assumption of GAS - Generally Assumed Safe. This means that they have been told by lots of people in the industry that it is safe, often the ones selling the product are the ones they listen to...

That is why we have GMO almost everything here and for the first time, have an expected lifetime of the current generation being shorter than the last one.

Look at all the advertising BelVita cookies are getting. Read the contents and you find it is totally a processed product claiming 4 hours of energy. Buyer beware!

On the other hand, nobody gets out alive. Everything in moderation except BBQ is my motto.
We may not be GMOs in our food, yes, this is rotated by the fact that animals can eat it at least in part, so some form of it here too is served on a platter.

du you nou barbegue is very dangerous, carcinogens cause cancer.


Last week we have news coverage of EU plans to ban smoked meats with really long tradition here in the nordic, carcinogens again.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:19 AM   #17
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re salt in canned foods. I have noticed that Kroger store brands are often much lower salt than other brands. If you need / want lower salt and can shop @ Kroger stores it's worth reading the labels.

What stores does Kroger own?
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:45 AM   #18
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https://www.westonaprice.org/health-...na-study-myth/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the...udy-revisited/

Just two, of dozens of, hits disputing the value of "The China Study".
The tactics of the meat and dairy industry have been to make regular people feel confused - oat bran is good one day, then bad. Butter, margarine...all conflicting studies. Many are fake but the media doesn't look into it and the end result is that we all feel like there's nothing we can do about nutrition.

It's all lies. It just is. The tobacco industry had the exact same game plan in the 1960's - show conflicting evidence about the relationship between cancer and smoking. Physicians would come out saying that smoking was good for your throat! The AMA released a major announcement about their disagreement with the surgeon general demanding that warnings be put on cigarette packs. This is all part of the historical record. We're at the same point today with meat and dairy.

Weston A Price is well known for suggesting that cholesterol and fat are good for the American diet - points well established as false. You can't get ownership information about them but it's interesting to see who funds their conferences: Green Pasture, Vital Choice, and U.S. Wellness Meats - all meat and supplement providers.

I never heard of the "Science Based Medicine" website. It's based on the opinion of one MD with who-knows-how-much credibility. If you read the intro of the China Study, you'd see quite clearly who was involved with the study - it would blow you away. That website page referenced mainly quoted an essay released by a woman with an MS in statistics who didn't like The China Study. Colin Campbell, director of The China Study, actually responded to her blog entry about it giving specific examples how her logic was wrong. The China Study has been written about extensively in respected medical journals - the science is incredible and the size of the study is unusual. And yet, I seriously doubt anyone here has read it. But most people have heard about Time magazine's cover showing that butter is good (it isn't).

Here's something simple because I doubt most people here will go to the effort of reading The China Study (although you should) - watch this 4 minute 2017 video:


Everyone understands the issues with smoking. This video puts in into perspective with food. I can tell you, from reading more than my share of studies and understanding more of the science surrounding it, there is overwhelming evidence against meat and dairy now. It's why the World Health Organization came out with their findings in 2016.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:11 AM   #19
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Probably the best website I've seen about unbiased nutrition info is nutritionfacts.org. There are a thousand articles and videos from a research MD who was fed up with the BS being put out when there was real science about it all. It explains a lot about many different human health issues.
There is no such thing as an unbiased source on this subject and the site you suggest has the bias of Dr. Michael Greger.

When the bias of a source happens to agree with our own personal bias, then we tend to call it unbiased.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:16 AM   #20
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We have a simple system as well.

If it's a veggie or fruit, we only eat organic.
If it's dairy we only eat grass fed organic.
If it's meat, we do our best. Chicken is all organic. Beef is grass fed and organic when possible. Pork is, well we don't eat much pork but when we do it sure tastes good.
Fish and shellfish is guaranteed all organic, since we only eat what we catch.
If it works for you, I'm all for it. However, organic doesn't necessarily lead to a perfect solution either. The rate of salmonella and e-coli found in organic foods exceeds that in non-organic. Not a characteristic of organic necessarily as one of the organic farmers. There is no perfect solution. Fish and shellfish are only as good as the waters in which you catch them.
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