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Old 08-19-2015, 11:25 AM   #41
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Greetings,
Mr. Rb. Not commenting on the "genius" in the WH but I think Iran has the right idea to expect and hope for expulsion of the the US and ALL other foreign (read non middle eastern) powers from the area. The current situation is a DIRECT result of foreign meddling that has been going on in the area for the last few centuries. Let the whole bunch of them fight it out amongst themselves and THEN deal with the victors or whoever is left.
Regarding the Japanese, Mr. Marin said it best in the first paragraph of post #29. Asia is a wonderful place but VERY difficult if not impossible to understand from a western perspective. Dog on the menu in Korea, cows worshiped in India are but two of the things unfathomable to the western mind.
Lol!

Thanks for expressing your down to earth common sense attitude. Have you ever thought of running for office?
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:43 AM   #42
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Greetings,
Mr. Rb. Running for office? I wouldn't last 30 seconds and my "common sense" alas, is nothing but a drug fueled pipe dream.
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Old 08-19-2015, 12:15 PM   #43
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"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, as quoted by Sun Tzu, may very well be the most accurate summation of today's terrorist philosophy..."
(from officer.com).

Again, we don't catch on, do we?
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Old 08-19-2015, 12:31 PM   #44
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Even the Nazis treated allied POWs well, they were fed and looked after.
Not really true. While British and US POWs were reasonably treated, the treatment of Russian POWs was as bad as anything during that time period.
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:10 PM   #45
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Not really true. While British and US POWs were reasonably treated, the treatment of Russian POWs was as bad as anything during that time period.
This is true, and the Russians executed thousands of Polish officers and dumped them in a an unmarked mass grave......and so it goes on and on.

Maybe waging a civilized war is an oxymoron?
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Old 08-19-2015, 01:48 PM   #46
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Peter,
I think you have it right.
As long as you have rules (agreements) as to how to wage war
it amounts to a game. Like Monopoly with population control by elimination.
In a fight,not a spectator sport, the rule is "WIN, with the least pain and
injury to yourself as possible".

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Old 08-19-2015, 02:48 PM   #47
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Peter,
I think you have it right.
As long as you have rules (agreements) as to how to wage war
it amounts to a game. Like Monopoly with population control by elimination.
In a fight,not a spectator sport, the rule is "WIN, with the least pain and
injury to yourself as possible".

Ted
Too true.

...and ultimatly ' "History is written by the victors." - Winston Churchill
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:20 PM   #48
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...Maybe waging a civilized war is an oxymoron?
There is nothing civilized about conflict.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:52 PM   #49
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IMO the Japanese are crying crocodile tears: showing regret at the loss of the war, not over the war crimes they committed....
If you go to Japan, and work with Japanese people and get to know them you will quickly learn that this is an incredibly ignorant position to take.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:01 PM   #50
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This is true, and the Russians executed thousands of Polish officers and dumped them in a an unmarked mass grave......and so it goes on and on.

Maybe waging a civilized war is an oxymoron?
I think you stay better close at home where many Irish killed many Irish...
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:06 PM   #51
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If you go to Japan, and work with Japanese people and get to know them you will quickly learn that this is an incredibly ignorant position to take.
This is an interesting question.

Were the German people misled by Hitler, as many many Germans asserted after the war; the majority pleading that they knew nothing about the holocost?

And could the same agrument be made about the Japanese and their leadership?

Were individuals further down the command chain responsible for the atrocities or were they only following orders?
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:11 PM   #52
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I think you stay better close at home where many Irish killed many Irish...
Many conflicts are seen in black and white by outsiders, but are in reality extremely complex situations with finely nuanced political and social implications that affect the local combatants.

That would probably describe the Irish 'troubles' between catholic and protestants very accurately.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:21 PM   #53
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Rustybarge: The question as to "following orders" was tested through a wide range of cultures and groups through the Milgram Experiments in the early 1960's (post war crime trials). Basically it was found that over 60% of people from most any culture would follow orders from an authority figure that might indeed kill others. Authority figure would tell subject to administer increasing levels of supposed electric shock to supposed subjects trying to answer a question. Each wrong answer would get an increased supposed shock. 60% would go to the 450 volt level.
This study was usually presented in Psych. 101 and was very surprising to most in the U.S.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:53 PM   #54
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Not much has changed and I doubt it will anytime soon.
Sadly very few cared about the recent holocaust in what used to be Yugoslavia and the weekly ongoing mass murders across Africa.
As far as Japan is concerned, the Germans had them beat hands down.


*dumb thread
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:36 PM   #55
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Mr. RT-I am all in favor of pipe dreams! Recalling my hippy days of yore (and maybe more recent since we legalized pot in WA), I have often thought that if World Leaders sat around the table passing a joint or two, war would pretty much cease. At the first suggestion of getting up starting a war, the response would probably be "Let's order everything on the left hand side of the IHOP menu first". So, don't give up on pipe dreams!
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:07 PM   #56
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Greetings,
Mr. THD. Thanks for the kind thoughts. If wars were fought by politicians, hand to hand, they would be few and far between and most probably non existent.
What's done in the case of Japan, no matter how atrocious, is done but what is of greater concern, and Mr. W mentioned 2 examples is that the atrocities are ongoing and it will continue, unfortunately, until end times which may not be too far off.
One can point fingers, cite historical examples and find fault with any civilization in any time period. Scapegoats exist throughout history, Jews being the first to come to mind. The Romans blamed the Jews, the Russians blamed the Jews, the Germans blamed the Jews and the Jews suffered accordingly but interestingly, now the Jewish "bad guy" has been replaced by the Muslim "bad guy".
The problem as I see it is that scapegoats even exist. White, black, "yellow", "red", Christian, Jew, Muslim, male, female, straight, gay, Republican, Democrat, Communist, pacifist, elitist, rich, poor, tinker tailor, soldier, spy... It's always the "other" guy that's causing all the problems and the "other" guy has to suffer to pay for the problems. Can't be me, I'm perfect and I'm always right.
A little bit of humility, understanding and education will go a long way to staving off the inevitable end. Ahhhh, pipe dreams.
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:51 PM   #57
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What is so great about the world today is that the surviving victims can usually open a museum or web site with their pictures and stories.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:15 PM   #58
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Greetings,
Mr. u. All well and good but the hatred, racism and intolerance continues. Education is the key IMO but not from some isolated museum or website. Grassroots. From the child up.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:23 PM   #59
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I agree.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:34 PM   #60
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Try visiting Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. Remote? Guess so. Moving? You be the judge.
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