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Old 02-22-2014, 12:05 PM   #21
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What you really want is no crime, ergo bingo no jails. How are you going about getting to that result?
IMO a large part of our crime problem stems from the fact that we have created an entitlement society. There is a large segment of our population that "wants it" and they don't want to work for it, and they want it now.

Take a look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurricane ripped through there a few years ago....rioting, plundering, murders, stores being stripped of merchandise....much of the population of New Orleans was out of control.

Compare that to the central US states that have been devastated by tornadoes. You didn't see the people acting like savages. No rioting, murders, rapes, etc. People got their butts out on the street and started cleaning up their own mess and helping neighbors to clean up their messes.

This entitlement society has been given so much free sh!t in the form of welfare, food stamps, free medical, free this, free that, that they no longer feel they should have to work for "it". "It" could be a new big screen TV, drugs, food, clothing, etc. "It" can be anything they don't have that they want.

And they still want "it". Doesn't matter if "it" costs money they don't have, they'll steal the money to get "it". If you have "it" they'll take it from you because they deserve to have it. The world's not fair, they've been mistreated and unfairly denied, but they still want "it". If they have to murder, rob, burglarize your home or whatever, they'll do whatever it takes to get "it".

So, IMO, until we can reduce or eliminate that entitlement thinking in this country we're never going to get close to the concept of reducing our crime problem.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:34 PM   #22
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Great post GFC. That pretty much tells it like it is....
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:54 PM   #23
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A few years back, I got a limited window into our criminal justice system. When I was a volunteer teacher of adult literacy courses, I was asked to do some tutoring at halfway houses and with some troubled teenage drop outs. There was some success, in fact one of my students went on to get a degree from Georgia State University. However, there were many failures. I learned a lot. It was amazing how glib they could be. They would tell you anything. There whole purpose was to convince the parole board to let them back on the streets. After that it was over. Most went back to their old ways. The heart breaking part was mothers with children to raise. Even most teens only stayed long enough to convince a judge to let them have their drivers license back.

Talk about banging your head against the wall!
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:35 PM   #24
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Too late to edit, so here is another maybe success story from my tutoring. The local Navy recuiters sent me a student that had passed all but the reneral knowledge test to get into SEALS training. I tutored and mentored him along. He passed the test, and shipped out. I don't know what happened to him. He like most of the rest would say they would let me hear from them in the future, but few did.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:55 PM   #25
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Too late to edit, so here is another maybe success story from my tutoring. The local Navy recuiters sent me a student that had passed all but the reneral knowledge test to get into SEALS training. I tutored and mentored him along. He passed the test, and shipped out. I don't know what happened to him. He like most of the rest would say they would let me hear from them in the future, but few did.
Regardless, be content in knowing that you had a hand in forging his future for the better. Bravo-Zulu...Job Well Done!
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:56 PM   #26
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Great post GFC. That pretty much tells it like it is....
Spot on brother!!
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:23 AM   #27
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The answer isn't to eliminate the laws that are being broken,

The drug laws were created to be able to arrest Chinese , and deport them after the RR was built.

The only folks served by drug laws are the many cartels , US customs , local police and the screws union at the local jail.

WE waste billions on catching folks , and more sticking them behind bars.

As always the question is Who Profits , Follow the Money.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:44 AM   #28
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Take a look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurricane ripped through there a few years ago....rioting, plundering, murders, stores being stripped of merchandise....much of the population of New Orleans was out of control.

Considering that a million people evacuated N.O. and the scale of the disaster is nearly beyond belief, the fact that a microscopic portion of those effected turned to looting should not come as a surprise or be used to condemn and entire portion of society.

File:Katrina FEMA declarations narrow.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Midwest tornado tornadoes are nothing compared to Katrina. The number of people impacted and the scope of damage is so much smaller that unless you were a victim, it amounts to nothing more than a few heavy news days and a windfall for the Weather Channel.

Considering that your house may have been destroyed in a tornado while your neighbor's is untouched might effect how willing you will be to go out and loot vs an entire region that is abandoned, without law enforcement and quite literally destroyed in an apocalypse.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ornado-map.jpg

Compare the area and number of people ... and look up looting after the Joplin tornado which is considered the worst tornado to hit the Midwest in a very long time.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:22 PM   #29
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Sorry Rick, but I ain't buying your line of crap that the rioting, looting, murders, etc., were due to the numbers of people involved in that disaster. It also wasn't a microscopic portion of the people who were looting unless you use the total numbers of people affected by the hurricanes to put a slant on your "microscopic" number.

Yes, a million people were evacuated from NO before the hurricane hit and many more afterwards. But it seemed to be those who were too lazy to leave that were left behind. Many of those were in the entitlement society and they stayed to reap their own rewards following the cleanup.

About 3 years after that happened I spent a couple of hours talking with a N.O. cop who had been there when the hurricane went through. The scenario he described to me indicated that it was not a small number of people involved in the criminal activity, but rather huge numbers. Entire neighborhoods were involved and the cops were so vastly outnumbered there was no way they could have stopped it.

Now compare that to my own experience having gone through hurricane Camille, a Cat 5 hurricane, in 1969. I was in the USAF and stationed in Biloxi, MS, which took a direct hit from Camille. Keep in mind this was before our entitlement society was created.

There was no rioting, very little looting, no murders, no rapes. What there was were neighborhoods of people out cleaning up, dragging debris to the street so it could be hauled away. I spent a week after the hurricane helping with the cleanup, much of that time in the neighborhoods near the city center in Biloxi.

People were helping strangers with cleanup. People were friendly, albeit a bit shell shocked by the damage.

So Rick, I ain't buying that line of BS you've provided those elegant charts and graphs to support.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:49 PM   #30
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No point in letting the truth spoil a good preconception.

Debunking the Myths of Hurricane Katrina: Special Report - Popular Mechanics


MYTH: "They have people ... been in that frickin' Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people."--New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin, The Oprah Winfrey Show, Sept. 6, 2005

REALITY: Both public officials and the press passed along lurid tales of post-Katrina mayhem: shootouts in the Superdome, bodies stacked in a convention center freezer, snipers firing on rescue helicopters. And those accounts appear to have affected rescue efforts as first responders shifted resources from saving lives to protecting rescuers. In reality, although looting and other property crimes were widespread after the flooding on Monday, Aug. 29, almost none of the stories about violent crime turned out to be true. Col. Thomas Beron, the National Guard commander of Task Force Orleans, arrived at the Superdome on Aug. 29 and took command of 400 soldiers. He told PM that when the Dome's main power failed around 5 am, "it became a hot, humid, miserable place. There was some pushing, people were irritable. There was one attempted rape that the New Orleans police stopped."

The only confirmed account of a weapon discharge occurred when Louisiana Guardsman Chris Watt was jumped by an assailant and, during the chaotic arrest, accidently shot himself in the leg with his own M-16. When the Superdome was finally cleared, six bodies were found--not the 200 speculated. Four people had died of natural causes; one was ruled a suicide, and another a drug overdose. Of the four bodies recovered at the convention center, three had died of natural causes; the fourth had sustained stab wounds.

Anarchy in the streets? "The vast majority of people [looting] were taking food and water to live," says Capt. Marlon Defillo, the New Orleans Police Department's commander of public affairs. "There were no killings, not one murder." As for sniper fire: No bullet holes were found in the fuselage of any rescue helicopter.

NEXT TIME: "Rumors are fueled by a shortage of truth," says Ted Steinberg, author of Acts of God: The Unnatural History of Natural Disasters in America. And truth was the first casualty of the information breakdown that followed the storm. Hardening communications lines (see page 3) will benefit not just first responders, but also the media. Government officials have a vital role in informing the public. Ensuring the flow of accurate information should be part of disaster planning at local, state and federal levels.


Read more: Debunking the Myths of Hurricane Katrina: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

https://tinyurl.com/n3uynm6

"Moving across the timbered inlands of Mississippi, Camille is downgraded to a tropical storm with maximum wind speeds of less than 74 MPH (118 km/h) by midafternoon of August 18. Amid growing reports of looting, Mississippi's governor declares martial law."
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:36 PM   #31
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Do you think the highest incarceration rate in the world is something to be proud of? To me, it looks like failure.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:10 PM   #32
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It definitely is a failure, but it's not a failure of the criminal justice system. It's a failure of our society. America is a violent place. We have a huge gang problem and that's where a lot of the crime comes from. But we have an even bigger criminal problem. A lot of the crime in the US can be laid at the feet of the drug industry. People steal to sell the things they steal so they can take that money to buy drugs so they can escape the reality of life as honest people know it.

Do I have a solution? No, but I do support the 'temporary fix' we have and that is to incarcerate those people who have chosen a life wherein they prey on innocent people. While it's not a good solution and doesn't prevent crime, it does prevent the people who are in prison from committing crimes while they are there.
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:29 PM   #33
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RickB- While I'd love to believe the report, from a person who knows several people that were "boots on the ground" immediately after the devastation of NO, and even more that were there shortly thereafter, providing security, law enforcement and rescue, I'll have to waive the BS flag on some of the information presented by that report and the good Colonel.

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Old 02-24-2014, 05:43 AM   #34
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I'll have to waive the BS flag on some of the information presented by that report and the good Colonel.

If actual facts do nor match the liberal narrative , to report them undermines the cause.

Not possible with todays media.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:46 AM   #35
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IMO a large part of our crime problem stems from the fact that we have created an entitlement society. There is a large segment of our population that "wants it" and they don't want to work for it, and they want it now.......
GFC, this post and your other posts are right on.

We can look back to the great depression of the 1930s. Many people were without jobs, without income and without homes. They didn't rob and steal, they made do the best they could, selling apples on the street corner and living in the woods.

The US Governent created work projects and these people swallowed their pride and went to work.

Fast forward to 2014 and these people are not going to lower themselves to manual labor, they would rather steal so they can live the easy life they see on TV.

Locking them up may not be something to be proud of, but it may be the only way to protect the rest of us from their criminal ways.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:54 AM   #36
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Do you think the highest incarceration rate in the world is something to be proud of? To me, it looks like failure.
The failure here is that these criminals fail to understand that they are responsible for supporting themselves and acting within the laws of this country. They are the failure.

Every child born in the USA, white, black, brown, yellow or red is offered a free public education through high school. Those who choose not to take advantage of this offer are the ones we end up putting in prison. Without an education and dedication to work, they are unable to find and keep a job that will let them live the life they think they deserve to live. So, they steal or commit other crimes.
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