ICW "Pirates". Have you seen?

[Ben]

Article explains...

Have You Seen Primadonna? | TownDock.net, Oriental NC

Help a good guy get his money back.
I don't have a dog in this fight except that a good guy got taken advantage of pretty badly.

 

[eseyoung]

I am not sure why you would 'co-endorse', whatever that is, a 3grand check for someone who you knew for less than a year, who's story didn't add up and had been a general pain in the butt for the town for the entire time they were there.

The town's harbor master should pay the guy back just for giving them motivation to move!

 

[N4712]

If I see him around, I'll ram him! Test to see how well built nordy's are.

 

[Steve]

I was expecting another guns thread!
I had read about this on a couple of other sites, it will be interesting to see where they pop up next.

 

[eseyoung]

If I see him around, I'll ram him! Test to see how well built nordy's are.

steel VS fiberglass. you lose. Be sure to take pics.

 

[O C Diver]

I have always been amazed how a few bad apples manage to tarnish the publics perception of people who live aboard. In many places it's stories like this that motivate local governments to enact legislation to prohibit or restrict full time live aboards.

Ted

 

[N4712]

steel VS fiberglass. you lose. Be sure to take pics.

But it's been rusting for 100 years.

 

[Moonstruck]

But it's been rusting for 100 years.

Make sure that it is on his starboard bow with no sails up.

 

[Tom.B]

Ok... My take... This French guy was a sham and a con. There are still other boats there "taking advantage" of the "rights" that they have. That said, it was almost humorous that a town like Oriental was so stupid that they were almost paralyzed by a few idiot boaters that have almost no courtesy for other people that might want to anchor there. If you want to liveaboard, FINE, but help promote the town and don't just think you can pee on the lawn to mark your territory and think everyone will love you and let you stay.

Now, we probably all agree that the French boat (and the other three) was a dirtbag (if you have followed the saga) , but there were a few in the community that support these homesteaders and I sympathize with their position. But what idiot cosigns a check from a guy with a record like Primadonna's has had? I have almost no sympathy for Pat here. However, he does have a case.

I think that this situation needs to just go away. The Town of Oriental needs to give Pat (the guy at the trading co.) a check for $1000. This brings his loss to about $1000 total. Then, Pat needs to shutup and count his blessings. $1000 is a small price for the HUGE bonehead move he made. Moreover, the town should call the $1000 a small price for allowing this one boat to completely upend the town over this issue. They need to try to work on FAVORABLE ways to maintain a small bit of control, even if there is no law forbidding it, of the waterway that is so vital to the town's well being.

I am very glad he's gone. I wish they all were, but there is more than enough blame to go around. There are certain responsibilities of being a liveaboard boater that are different than being on dirt. There are things that a town can do to invite the boating community without alienating transients or recreational boaters that want no maintain a certain level of elitism and don't want to feel like they have to "slum it" to visit the beautiful places that being a boater allows.

Oriental has a long road ahead. This is not over. There are still a lot of very discourteous boaters there and there are people that want to visit that town. It's sad they have to go through the same thing FL did and I hope they find a better resolution.

 

[Tom.B]

... And BTW... sorry for the wordy and passionate reply. This situation is right in mine and Ben's backyard and directly affects our boating lives.

 

[psneeld]

... And BTW... sorry for the wordy and passionate reply. This situation is right in mine and Ben's backyard and directly affects our boating lives.

I feel for ya...I followed the full length version on the other forum and was amazed at the average boater/cruiser/liveaboard's "thought process" on their entitlement to free whatever.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

I haven't read the other forums on this. But, besides the owner being a fraud and a crook, what is the issue(s)? An unattractive scow at the city docks?

 

[koliver]

Know your borrower! Would a bank vouch for a guy living on a boat that looked like Primavera without solid collateral? Not a chance. A private lender has every right to get better collateral than a bank would ask for, or refuse the loan. Sorry Pat, but you asked for the loss by not protecting yourself.

If it was 100 times as much money, Pat would have gone to a lawyer and there would have been an immediate injunction/seizure on the boat, to preserve any assets and prevent the boat leaving the jurisdiction until the legal process would catch up and get Pat his money back. With such a small amount involved, legal fees would be far more than the amount involved, and those fees not recoverable from the debtor.

So the only remedies that might work are of the "self help" variety. Probably not worth the effort.

 

[Ben]

Know your borrower! Would a bank vouch for a guy living on a boat that looked like Primavera without solid collateral? Not a chance. A private lender has every right to get better collateral than a bank would ask for, or refuse the loan. Sorry Pat, but you asked for the loss by not protecting yourself.

If it was 100 times as much money, Pat would have gone to a lawyer and there would have been an immediate injunction/seizure on the boat, to preserve any assets and prevent the boat leaving the jurisdiction until the legal process would catch up and get Pat his money back. With such a small amount involved, legal fees would be far more than the amount involved, and those fees not recoverable from the debtor.

So the only remedies that might work are of the "self help" variety. Probably not worth the effort.

Easy there, Cowboy.

Good, salient points to be sure, but please consider...
1. This was essentially a Samaritan gesture to the wayward sailors.
2. Primadonna is the actual name of the boat.
3. Pat is essentially getting slapped for trying to do a good deed. Too little general kindness these days, too many lawyers.

My stake is I keep my boat there in the Oriental area. As these two "people" were taking advantage of the townsfolk's kindness, I was one of the skeptics. Pat is likely a kinder, more compassionate person than me, thus helping them materially.

I guess we could say we should help those "down on their luck" as my mama taught me, but sadly in this case the crew of Primadonna were playing everyone's sympathy for money, hand-outs, and broken trust. Bums.

So your point is fair, but hope you won't kick a man for trying to do a good deed.

 

[Ben]

it was almost humorous that a town like Oriental was so stupid that they were almost paralyzed by a few idiot boaters that have almost no courtesy for other people that might want to anchor there.

It's sad they have to go through the same thing FL did and I hope they find a better resolution.

I'm selectively quoting Tom...
1. The lifeless town board - the majority of them were voted out in November. The new board is reported to be looking seriously at the issue.

2. I truly share the regret that a law must and likely will be passed to regulate idiots with no common decency. But accept it is what it is.

There are couple volumes of letters written to Towndock.net the online newspaper for Oriental. Mostly arguing compassion for the homesteading boaters versus the practicality of limits on the anchorage. What really becomes apparent is the manure, drama, and flamboyant language that became the defense of the pro-homesteaders side - many claims of witch-hunts, pitchforks/torches, and crushing of their rights. None of those idealists ever engaged the thought of common courtesy or practicality.

Ah, the drift toward cynicism...

 

[Andy G]

Know your borrower! Would a bank vouch for a guy living on a boat that looked like Primavera without solid collateral?

Well there was the small matter of the banks sub prime mortgage fiasco in 08'. That makes this poor bloke look like the fount of all financial wisdom.

 

[Sceptic]

Why does the town/village of Oriental allow a half finished building - basically a steel skeleton - to dominate downtown for so many years?

I do the north/south trip most years - 28 trips (14 each way) so far - and I long ago stopped visiting Oriental. Not because of the ugly building, but for other reasons - namely there are better places to stop.

Mike

 

[Tom.B]

Why does the town/village of Oriental allow a half finished building - basically a steel skeleton - to dominate downtown for so many years? I do the north/south trip most years - 28 trips (14 each way) so far - and I long ago stopped visiting Oriental. Not because of the ugly building, but for other reasons - namely there are better places to stop. Mike

The way I understand it, The owner of the seafood processor has a rocky relationship with the town. He built the building without getting the permits expecting to be able to manipulate the town board to allow him to do whatever he wanted. The board voted to allow the max size structure six inches shorter than what Chris Fulcher had built and denied him the permits to finish his new building. Since he is just that kind of guy, he has refused to remove it. The stalemate continues to this day.

 

[Capthead]

These types are everywhere. They cruise to Los Angeles and burn people here too. The sad thing is someone misguidedly trusts them and gets the bag of ship in his hand.

Thanks to our strict guidelines our marina keeps them out. Unfortunately, the one just behind my boat doesn't.

 

[Tony B]

.....was amazed at the average boater/cruiser/liveaboard's "thought process" on their entitlement to free whatever.

You got that right.

The negative always shines brighter than the positive. Since money is usually the best discriminator, some places are eliminating free docks and anchorages. Problem is that while it helps eliminate the derelicts it hurts some of the lower income boaters that are not derelicts. It's very hard to draw the line.

I remember when I had an RV some of the RV parks were not allowing RV's older than 1980. When I sailed my new-to-me 1976 Allied ketch from Fl. to Kemah, Tx., I had to send the marina a copy of my survey and new photos so they could make a decision as to let me in or not. I am very understanding of this.

 

[FF]

It's very hard to draw the line.

A time limit works very well.

Ben Franklyn

> Fish and friends smell after 3 days<

One SSCA cruisers marina had a sliding scale 3 days were cheap, the next 3 cost 50% more after that it was REALLY expensive ,
unless the boat was hauled with the Yard working on it.

 

[Tom.B]

FOUND THEM!

SV Primadonna, aground at Booby Island in the Bahamas. It is a tiny island of 300, not normally on tourist / cruiser lists. Apparently the vessel & crew entered the Bahamas without checking in with authorities. Pat Stockwell tells TownDock.net he was told the Primadonna crew may have been arrested – Bahamian authorities are harsher about the rules than they are in the USA. The photo was taken from a US Coast Guard helicopter – the Coast Guard patrols the Bahamas as part of a cooperation agreement with the Bahamas to fight drug trafficking.

 

[N4712]

FOUND THEM! SV Primadonna, aground at Booby Island in the Bahamas. It is a tiny island of 300, not normally on tourist / cruiser lists. Apparently the vessel & crew entered the Bahamas without checking in with authorities. Pat Stockwell tells TownDock.net he was told the Primadonna crew may have been arrested – Bahamian authorities are harsher about the rules than they are in the USA. The photo was taken from a US Coast Guard helicopter – the Coast Guard patrols the Bahamas as part of a cooperation agreement with the Bahamas to fight drug trafficking.

Ooooooo, there going be in some deep crap. Both Bahamian and CG authorities, they got some explaining to do!

 

[capt jerry]

why does he have to check in if they don't get off the boat,and anchor just for the night

 

[jwnall]

FOUND THEM!
.

Good post, Tom. I had been wondering what happened with them. Now we know. Thanks.

 

[psneeld]

why does he have to check in if they don't get off the boat,and anchor just for the night

Bahamas Ports of Entry

Travelers coming into the islands can enter through any of the following ports, listed by island or island group within The Bahamas.



http://www.myoutislands.com/bahamas-sailing/bahamas-ports-of-entry.cfm

 

[Steve]

Well, I don't guess they, he anyway, are deserving of much compassion. They'll have a hard time finding someone over there to accept a bogus check, even with a sad story.

 

[jwnall]

Well, I don't guess they, he anyway, are deserving of much compassion. They'll have a hard time finding someone over there to accept a bogus check, even with a sad story.

Can't really say as I have a whole lot of compassion for them. When we (my wife and I) were cruising on the sailboat, we met an awful lot of people who were living very close to the edge, financially. But most of them were very decent people who had just made a decision that they were going to cruise while they were still relatively young, and then would go home, full of experiences and adventures, and begin the daily grind. Others were just complete bums, though, borrowing stuff (forget about it being returned!), stealing stuff from other boats while the owners were away, and really just bottom feeders. (Not to speak of the singlehanding alcoholics -- I actually can find compassion for them, I suppose).

Anyway, in my view, these are bottom feeders, and deserving of nothing other than scorn.

 

[psneeld]

Would love to know the real story...if this guy had a nice pension from a company or agency in France and they left him out to dry as sometimes happens...

You go from being an affluent cruiser to bottom feeder pretty quick.

With all the talk of military pensions on the chopping block...not sure where I would wind up "in the cruising community" if my pension dried up overnight.

Funny what survival instinct will do to a person....I just hope my morals are never tested to the basic instinct level....and he has a wife to worry about.

Can't necessarily forgive his actions...but maybe they become a lot more understandable with all the facts out in the open.

 

[Tom.B]

Talked to someone close to the case tonight. Word is that he is considered a "fugitive from justice" by the Bahamian Government and he'll probably stay in jail there for quite some time. Will find out more this weekend.

In other news: Bradly Finn, the former military guy with the Pepito-Bismol pink boat died a couple of weeks ago. He was another one of the 4 boats taking harbor space in Oriental. When his father was in Oriental picking up his son's ashes, wouldn't comment on what will happen to his boat. Can't say I blame him for that... But the boat still sits there. No telling how long it will sit.

This is not an official news story... I just talked to a guy that has an inside track.