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01-06-2024, 04:05 PM
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#2
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
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I'm really curious to hear what the cause is, as that door isn't a new design for the Max. The previous 737NG had the same door on the -900ER variant, so that door has been in use for 15+ years with no similar issues. For the Max it's currently on the -9 and the 200 passenger variant of the -8.
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01-06-2024, 04:18 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin
I'm really curious to hear what the cause is, as that door isn't a new design for the Max. The previous 737NG had the same door on the -900ER variant, so that door has been in use for 15+ years with no similar issues. For the Max it's currently on the -9 and the 200 passenger variant of the -8.
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One report said it was a "plug" in a structural opening where a door could be fitted, but was not a door on this plane.
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01-06-2024, 04:22 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la
One report said it was a "plug" in a structural opening where a door could be fitted, but was not a door on this plane.
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That aligns with what I've seen on the issue. Many airlines with the 737-900ER and 737-9 don't put enough seats in them to require the extra exit, so they get a plug instead of a door and just paneled over on the inside. One less door, slide, etc. to maintain that way in exchange for a lower approved passenger capacity.
Accordingly the "ground until inspection" AD the FAA just put out appears to only affect the -9 models built with the plug, not the ones that actually have a door in that spot.
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01-06-2024, 05:33 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soin2la
One report said it was a "plug" in a structural opening where a door could be fitted, but was not a door on this plane.
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I believe that's correct as the exterior shot of the plane I saw lacked any decals around the opening.
My son in-law works for Boeing painting division. Currently he's working at one of the plane repainting contractors as a Boeing supervisor. He will tell you there are a dizzying amount of decals on a plane, and they all have to be in the exact correct spot.
Can't imagine a door without decals around it.
Ted
__________________
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I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
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01-10-2024, 03:07 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 657
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Now all 737 Max 9s will have speed tape wrapped around the entire body of the aircraft from the cockpit to the tail.
Ain't nuttin' gonna fall off now!
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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01-10-2024, 04:09 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
Now all 737 Max 9s will have speed tape wrapped around the entire body of the aircraft from the cockpit to the tail.
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Yup
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01-10-2024, 04:32 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: West Coast
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
Now all 737 Max 9s will have speed tape wrapped around the entire body of the aircraft from the cockpit to the tail.
Ain't nuttin' gonna fall off now!
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Naw, they just gotta go around with a hammer and whack the threaded ends of all the boltss.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67919436
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01-10-2024, 05:09 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Centreville MD
Vessel Name: Resilient
Vessel Model: Helmsman Trawlers 38E
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,509
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The large majority of that model are in the fleets of Alaska and United
Yesterday it was reported United pulled theirs to inspect and found loose bolts in "several" of the doors.
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01-10-2024, 06:02 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,299
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I’ve been following the discussion on YouTube. The door plug was held in by four bolts with castellated nuts with cotter pins. The bolts were not found on the airplane or the plug. Other loose bolts have been found. I think this one is going to be on Boeing.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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01-10-2024, 06:47 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar
I’ve been following the discussion on YouTube. The door plug was held in by four bolts with castellated nuts with cotter pins. The bolts were not found on the airplane or the plug. Other loose bolts have been found. I think this one is going to be on Boeing.
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Almost certainly; it was a brand new airplane. The airline hadn't had any time to F it up. Boeing CEO has already apologised
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01-10-2024, 09:05 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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Interesting side effect:
Alaska Air has inadvertantly exposed to public scrutiny the foundational myth of ETOPS with the story of the recurring pressurization alarm.
The internet is reacting with puzzled rage: "What? The airplane was not good enough to fly over the ocean, but they left it in service?!?
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01-10-2024, 09:14 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7,538
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From what I can find, pulling it from ETOPS flights was the conservative option, but wasn't required. Diversion after depressurization is one of the scenarios covered in ETOPS planning. So given the same failure with no resulting catastrophic damage it would be an unpleasant (potentially long) diversion, but otherwise no worse.
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01-10-2024, 11:36 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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The problem with the whole "Engine Turns Or Passengers Swim" concept lies in the statement that these aircraft will get "special maintenance", implying that others will not. Which should cause any sentient traveller to ask, "Wait...there's something you could inspect and maintain on my flight from SFO to ATL that you have elected to NOT DO!?
The decision to not send the aircraft to HNL with an unresolved, likely false, alarm was consistent with conservative "safety culture."
The decision to dispatch it to ONT, may even have been within rules and doctrine and the MEL, but it has revealed to the general public something they never suspected. Truly an unforseen consequence.
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01-11-2024, 12:56 AM
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#16
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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The other fallacy of air travel that is drawing attention because of this blowout is the "lap infant". National press has begun asking if allowing an unrestrained 40 pound human projectile to bang around the cabin or worse is good public policy.
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01-11-2024, 10:06 AM
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#17
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Scraping Paint
City: Hayden
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 11
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Whoa, that old 737 Max 8 thread brings back memories! As for the Max 9 blowout, just watched the vid. Pretty wild stuff. Can't help but wonder what the air pros around here think.
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01-11-2024, 12:33 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaProf
The other fallacy of air travel that is drawing attention because of this blowout is the "lap infant". National press has begun asking if allowing an unrestrained 40 pound human projectile to bang around the cabin or worse is good public policy.
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"At least twice during news conferences this week, the NTSB has stressed that both it and the Federal Aviation Administration recommend that parents or guardians buy separate seats for infants on flights instead of holding them in their laps."
NY Times 1/11/24
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01-11-2024, 01:00 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 657
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If a child was pulled out of a plane during flight, might as well shut down the company.
That would be so horrible.
The parents go on TV holding a picture of the infant, crying over their loss.
Not sure why airlines have not required some type of restraint for infants at this point. Or covering ALL passengers.
Action
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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01-11-2024, 01:07 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
Not sure why airlines have not required some type of restraint for infants at this point. Or covering ALL passengers.
Action
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No one wants to be the one "cruel money-grubbing" company that requires the public pay for appropriate safety measures.
The solution is simple: government requires that every passenger buy a ticket and be restrained in an appropriately designed seat.
Yes, I can honestly say that both of my infants always complied with the rule I am proposing. They were...and continue to be worth more than a couple hundred bucks.
The issue is about more than the safety of the kiddies. When impact G-forces rip the little nipper out of Mommie's loving embrace it becomes a projectile, and you and I potential targets.
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