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Old 01-09-2013, 01:00 PM   #21
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Greetings; These are not new, but gives you a view from the wheel house. To put in perspective. Selkirk on the clam sea is without balast or fully loaded to the plimsoll mark. The views at sea are however. Are we ready for this? and, can our vessels sustain pressure.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #22
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Greetings,
Great Scott!!!! I get vertigo just LOOKING at the stills. NO THANK YOU! Under any circumstances.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:52 PM   #23
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Having had the "opportunity" to spend a week being blown back toward California while on a 125,000 ton loaded tanker enroute from PWS toward Tsingtao, China, I can assure you that it is not an opportunity one would choose to repeat.

We ran into a typhoon just east of the dateline that turned into constant winds over 80knots with gusts over 100. The seas were between 80 and 100 feet and all we could do was maintain steerage and hope for the best as we were blown back over 120 miles to the southeast. We lost most of the antennae including our sat dome from the force of rolling and the wind. Part of the house was stove in from boarding waves and we lost 6 or 7 liferafts that were blown off their mounts and sailed like kites until the painters broke. Rails and ladders on deck were bent and cargo pipes were broken.

You have no idea of what waves that large look like from the trough even from a wheelhouse almost 100 feet from the waterline. To see the tops of them ripped off by the wind was a unique vision. The silence of the lee in the troughs was unexpected and made the howl at the crests that much more frightening.

You could watch the hull bend and twist like it was made of cheap plastic. At the end of it, we were barely functional from fear, lack of food and lack of sleep due to the motion and the noise of wind, water, and all the debris sliding around the deck above. Just trying to move was exhausting. No one spoke, no one smiled.

Be careful what you wish for.
wow.....I have always loved rough water but after reading your description above I see it as a foreboding damger to be respected and feared. Thanks.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #24
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Oh, I'm sure it's scary and awesome and all those other words like that at the same time. But I would love to experience it if I felt I could physically deal with it and that the vessel would come through it.

We didn't have to ride the world's fastest roller coaster when we were in Abu Dhabi the other month, and a big part of me didn't want to. But we did figuring it would be stupid to be there and pass up the opportunity. And it was trip and a half, particularly the launch. I will probably never have the opportunity to do it again but I am really glad I had the experience at least once.

I feel the same way about watching those ship in the big seas. What an amazing thing to experience in one's life. Even if I only got to see and experience it once, it would be a major addition to my "experience catalog."

The book I am currently writing takes place on a PT boat during WWII. While I have interviewed dozens of PT vets in the course of learning enough about the boats and being on them to write about it, I will obviously never have the experience of doing it in person. I'm a big believer in experiencing everything one possibly and practically can over the course of one's life. Riding a ship in big seas like that would be one of those amazing moments I would be forever grateful to have experienced in person instead of just watching a video about it.
why not buy a pt? I see one come up for sale every once in awhile in the central ca. delta and bay area. Of course most of them need work. I'm sure there are some around up your way as well
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #25
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Greetings; These are not new, but gives you a view from the wheel house. To put in perspective. Selkirk on the clam sea is without balast or fully loaded to the plimsoll mark. The views at sea are however. Are we ready for this? and, can our vessels sustain pressure.

Newton's law of boating: What goes down must come back up?

I've sunk the bow of some smaller craft before, even to the point of having blue water on the windshield. And it's all come back up and dried out. Fun? Maybe not at the time, but now it's a hoot to talk about.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:54 PM   #26
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Newton's law of boating: What goes down must come back up?

I've sunk the bow of some smaller craft before, even to the point of having blue water on the windshield. And it's all come back up and dried out. Fun? Maybe not at the time, but now it's a hoot to talk about.
I call that submarining, done that twice myself and it scared the....out of me. Never blue water on the windshield......you were lucky
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:22 PM   #27
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why not buy a pt? I see one come up for sale every once in awhile in the central ca. delta and bay area. Of course most of them need work. I'm sure there are some around up your way as well
There are no WWII PTs left outside of the tiny handful that are in museums like Battleship Cove in Fall River, Mass. There is only one restored WWII PT, a Higgins, that runs using the original Packard engines, and that's the boat in Portland. My wife and i were invited out on that one several years ago.

Most all of the WWII PTs were stripped and burned at the close of the war. A few found their way via surplus sales into private hands and were converted to pleasure cruisers. In all these cases they were re-engined, some with a pair of gas engines, some with a pair of diesels.

There have been other craft since the war that were called PTs from companies like Vosper in England. The "PT" in the TV series McHale's Navy was a thinly disguised Vosper, for example. These later boats were generally twin engined.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #28
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There are no WWII PTs left outside of the tiny handful that are in museums like Battleship Cove in Fall River, Mass. There is only one restored WWII PT, a Higgins, that runs using the original Packard engines, and that's the boat in Portland. My wife and i were invited out on that one several years ago.

Most all of the WWII PTs were stripped and burned at the close of the war. A few found their way via surplus sales into private hands and were converted to pleasure cruisers. In all these cases they were re-engined, some with a pair of gas engines, some with a pair of diesels.

There have been other craft since the war that were called PTs from companies like Vosper in England. The "PT" in the TV series McHale's Navy was a thinly disguised Vosper, for example. These later boats were generally twin engined.
well the last one i was in had had the engines removed and was being used as a live aboard on Steamboat Slough. That was ten years ago. Yhey were wooden i think so maybe they are gone but i could swear i have seen at least on other on PoTatoe Slough. I will check

http://pt728.com/

Marin, here is a link to some for sale right now
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:35 PM   #29
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pt for sale

PT 728, World War II Patrol Torpedo Boat, for Sale in Hammacher Schlemmer Catalog | Old Salt Blog – a virtual port of call for all those who love the sea
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:31 PM   #30
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Been in hurricane winds twice but fortunately on ships.

Last time the quartering waves were over 50 feet tall and occasionally smacked the dining room windows on the promenade deck. Tables and chairs (with guests) tipped over and dishes flew off the tables, including a bowl of cereal and milk on my lap. Twisted my knee when the ship jerked, falling on my back. Knee took over a year to heal. It was the ship's maiden cruise, a trans-Atlantic voyage. The 2011 12-day cruise cost about $400 per person excluding tips and bar bill.



On another trans-Atlantic cruise a couple years earlier the spray over the bow reached over the 14th deck (it was dark but the water was running down the windows). Asked a fellow passenger if he had seen anything like that before. He said yes. That time a rogue wave broke into some of the forward cabins.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #31
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PT728 is a twin-engine British Vosper design that was built in the US. It's been around for quite awhile. I believe it was a "Ride the PT' attraction in Florida for many years. For its tourist attraction role it was cobbled up to resemble a larger, 78' Higgins PT.

THe "real" PTs were built by Elco in New Jersey and Higgins in New Orleans, plus prototypes and a single squadron (18 boats total) of an operationally unsuccessful design built by Huckins.

All three manufacturers incorporated the same basic requirements---- three V-12 Packard marine engines, two twin-fifty machine guns in turrets, four torpedo tubes, and the ability to carry and launch depth charges.

Outside of that, the three deigns were very different.

The Huckins boats were by far the best built and had the best ride which made sense given Huckins long history in the yacht business. In fact the Huckins PTs were somewhat derisively referred to as "yachts." Some references say the prototype Huckins boat had 4 engines, but the production models apparently had three like the other two manufacturers.

The Higgins was (arguably) the fastest and most maneuverable but had the wettest, roughest ride and the worst crew accommodations.

The Elco proved to be the best boat for the mission as it was the most successful compromise of speed, maneuverability, good ride, and good crew accommodations.

I have spent hours crawling around on and in the restored Elco boat at Battleship Cove as research for my current project. I've ridden on the now-fully restored, Packard-powered Higgins boat in Portland. To my knowledge none of the handful of Huckins boats that were made still exist.

Contrary to popular opinion the US PTs were not made of plywood, and their engines were not "P-51" engines or any other type of aviation engine although they did use high octane aviation fuel. The Packard 4M-2500 did have its roots in an aviation engine, however, the famous Liberty V-12 dating from WWI.

Way more than you wanted to know but I've got all this stuff branded on my brain now so it's easy to spout off.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:08 PM   #32
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Thanks Marin. I love those vessels. I thought they had allison engines
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #33
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Thanks Marin. I love those vessels. I thought they had allison engines
I left out one of the Navy's mission requirements for the PT and that was a 20mm Oerlikon cannon.

The engine heritage for the 1,250 hp Packard marine engine is interesting. As I mentioned, it started with the Liberty V-12 aircraft engine. In the 1920s and 30s speedboat racing became a major attraction and of course the quest for ever more power was paramount. Packard got involved with this and began revising the Liberty engine for marine use.

The culmination of this engine evolution was embodied in the famous hydroplane Miss America X which had four of Packard's latest and greatest marine V-12 racing engines in it.

When the initial testing of the PT concept began and entries were called for in the first design competition, the engine selected was a derivative of the Miss America X engine. This was the 4M-2500. The M was for "marine."

During the war, as you probably know, Packard began building the Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 under license for use in the P-51 Mustang, which in its early days had been fitted with an Allison V-12. The "how the P-52 ended up with a Rolls Royce engine" story is interesting unto itself. But once this happened, Packard put the assembly line for the Merlin right next to the assembly line for their own 4M-2500 marine engine they were building for the PTs. But other than the cylinder arrangement and the fuel they ran on, there was nothing in common between the two engines.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:57 PM   #34
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I left out one of the Navy's mission requirements for the PT and that was a 20mm Oerlikon cannon.

The engine heritage for the 1,250 hp Packard marine engine is interesting. As I mentioned, it started with the Liberty V-12 aircraft engine. In the 1920s and 30s speedboat racing became a major attraction and of course the quest for ever more power was paramount. Packard got involved with this and began revising the Liberty engine for marine use.

The culmination of this engine evolution was embodied in the famous hydroplane Miss America X which had four of Packard's latest and greatest marine V-12 racing engines in it.

When the initial testing of the PT concept began and entries were called for in the first design competition, the engine selected was a derivative of the Miss America X engine. This was the 4M-2500. The M was for "marine."

During the war, as you probably know, Packard began building the Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 under license for use in the P-51 Mustang, which in its early days had been fitted with an Allison V-12. The "how the P-52 ended up with a Rolls Royce engine" story is interesting unto itself. But once this happened, Packard put the assembly line for the Merlin right next to the assembly line for their own 4M-2500 marine engine they were building for the PTs. But other than the cylinder arrangement and the fuel they ran on, there was nothing in common between the two engines.
interesting thanks Marin
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:37 AM   #35
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Are we ready for this?
Earlier that day, Ace (the horse) turned his head to look toward me at the top of Kearsarge Pass before the steep, jagged-rock trail to the west, seemed to ask "are you ready for this"?

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Old 01-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #36
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Earlier that day, Ace (the horse) turned his head to look toward me at the top of Kearsarge Pass before the steep, jagged-rock trail to the west, seemed to ask "are you ready for this"?


who is that guy
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