Conditions that we might wish to avoid with our toy boats

[Marin]

PT 728, World War II Patrol Torpedo Boat, for Sale in Hammacher Schlemmer Catalog | Old Salt Blog – a virtual port of call for all those who love the sea

PT728 is a twin-engine British Vosper design that was built in the US. It's been around for quite awhile. I believe it was a "Ride the PT' attraction in Florida for many years. For its tourist attraction role it was cobbled up to resemble a larger, 78' Higgins PT.

THe "real" PTs were built by Elco in New Jersey and Higgins in New Orleans, plus prototypes and a single squadron (18 boats total) of an operationally unsuccessful design built by Huckins.

All three manufacturers incorporated the same basic requirements---- three V-12 Packard marine engines, two twin-fifty machine guns in turrets, four torpedo tubes, and the ability to carry and launch depth charges.

Outside of that, the three deigns were very different.

The Huckins boats were by far the best built and had the best ride which made sense given Huckins long history in the yacht business. In fact the Huckins PTs were somewhat derisively referred to as "yachts." Some references say the prototype Huckins boat had 4 engines, but the production models apparently had three like the other two manufacturers.

The Higgins was (arguably) the fastest and most maneuverable but had the wettest, roughest ride and the worst crew accommodations.

The Elco proved to be the best boat for the mission as it was the most successful compromise of speed, maneuverability, good ride, and good crew accommodations.

I have spent hours crawling around on and in the restored Elco boat at Battleship Cove as research for my current project. I've ridden on the now-fully restored, Packard-powered Higgins boat in Portland. To my knowledge none of the handful of Huckins boats that were made still exist.

Contrary to popular opinion the US PTs were not made of plywood, and their engines were not "P-51" engines or any other type of aviation engine although they did use high octane aviation fuel. The Packard 4M-2500 did have its roots in an aviation engine, however, the famous Liberty V-12 dating from WWI.

Way more than you wanted to know but I've got all this stuff branded on my brain now so it's easy to spout off.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Thanks Marin. I love those vessels. I thought they had allison engines

 

[Marin]

Thanks Marin. I love those vessels. I thought they had allison engines

I left out one of the Navy's mission requirements for the PT and that was a 20mm Oerlikon cannon.

The engine heritage for the 1,250 hp Packard marine engine is interesting. As I mentioned, it started with the Liberty V-12 aircraft engine. In the 1920s and 30s speedboat racing became a major attraction and of course the quest for ever more power was paramount. Packard got involved with this and began revising the Liberty engine for marine use.

The culmination of this engine evolution was embodied in the famous hydroplane Miss America X which had four of Packard's latest and greatest marine V-12 racing engines in it.

When the initial testing of the PT concept began and entries were called for in the first design competition, the engine selected was a derivative of the Miss America X engine. This was the 4M-2500. The M was for "marine."

During the war, as you probably know, Packard began building the Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 under license for use in the P-51 Mustang, which in its early days had been fitted with an Allison V-12. The "how the P-52 ended up with a Rolls Royce engine" story is interesting unto itself. But once this happened, Packard put the assembly line for the Merlin right next to the assembly line for their own 4M-2500 marine engine they were building for the PTs. But other than the cylinder arrangement and the fuel they ran on, there was nothing in common between the two engines.

 

[bfloyd4445]

I left out one of the Navy's mission requirements for the PT and that was a 20mm Oerlikon cannon.

The engine heritage for the 1,250 hp Packard marine engine is interesting. As I mentioned, it started with the Liberty V-12 aircraft engine. In the 1920s and 30s speedboat racing became a major attraction and of course the quest for ever more power was paramount. Packard got involved with this and began revising the Liberty engine for marine use.

The culmination of this engine evolution was embodied in the famous hydroplane Miss America X which had four of Packard's latest and greatest marine V-12 racing engines in it.

When the initial testing of the PT concept began and entries were called for in the first design competition, the engine selected was a derivative of the Miss America X engine. This was the 4M-2500. The M was for "marine."

During the war, as you probably know, Packard began building the Rolls Royce Merlin V-12 under license for use in the P-51 Mustang, which in its early days had been fitted with an Allison V-12. The "how the P-52 ended up with a Rolls Royce engine" story is interesting unto itself. But once this happened, Packard put the assembly line for the Merlin right next to the assembly line for their own 4M-2500 marine engine they were building for the PTs. But other than the cylinder arrangement and the fuel they ran on, there was nothing in common between the two engines.

interesting thanks Marin

 

[markpierce]

Are we ready for this?

Earlier that day, Ace (the horse) turned his head to look toward me at the top of Kearsarge Pass before the steep, jagged-rock trail to the west, seemed to ask "are you ready for this"?

 

[bfloyd4445]

Earlier that day, Ace (the horse) turned his head to look toward me at the top of Kearsarge Pass before the steep, jagged-rock trail to the west, seemed to ask "are you ready for this"?

who is that guy