Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-27-2018, 10:33 AM   #1
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,437
Columbia River Gillnet Fight Starting Again

Here we go again. FYI The entire Columbia River fisheries has been shut down to all users. Possibly for the next 3 years due to poor salmon runs.

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/vi...Y4V2puM2Q0TCJ9
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:27 AM   #2
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
I am afraid we're failing in our "management" of west coast salmon similarly to east coast cod.

Salmon might have been hanging on in the past, but now they have to fight environmental and habitat changes as well. It might be too much.

Talking to a fella last week about how low salmon returns were this year, he said, "There are too many sea lions" to which I replied, "When us Europeans arrived here, there were sea lions and tons of salmon...I don't think sea lions are the problem".
__________________

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:43 AM   #3
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
I am afraid we're failing in our "management" of west coast salmon similarly to east coast cod.

Salmon might have been hanging on in the past, but now they have to fight environmental and habitat changes as well. It might be too much.

Talking to a fella last week about how low salmon returns were this year, he said, "There are too many sea lions" to which I replied, "When us Europeans arrived here, there were sea lions and tons of salmon...I don't think sea lions are the problem".
Agree to a point. Here on the Columbia, 10 years ago, the Sea Lions were not that much of an issue. Now there are thousands of sea lions that enter the Columbia and are starting to have a direct impact on the runs. Yet the Federal Government will not allow the States to take care of the issue.

I also believe the River is no longer conducive to gill nets. They should be banned.....
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:45 AM   #4
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
Agree to a point. Here on the Columbia, 10 years ago, the Sea Lions were not that much of an issue. Now there are thousands of sea lions that enter the Columbia and are starting to have a direct impact on the runs. Yet the Federal Government will not allow the States to take care of the issue.

I also believe the River is no longer conducive to gill nets. They should be banned.....
Are the sea lions capitalizing on a man made restriction of the rivers flow? If so, is it the sea lions fault, or ours?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:45 AM   #5
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,030
Greetings,
Mr. MM. There are too many sea lions in relation to the amount of salmon harvested by humans. Before Europeans, an equilibrium existed. Humans tilted that equilibrium. As you mentioned, environmental changes aren't helping either.


East coast is slightly different IMO. Elimination of the seal harvest is compounding the equation wrt codfish. That and proliferation of foreign factory ships operating to excess on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks has taken it's toll.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:48 AM   #6
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. MM. There are too many sea lions in relation to the amount of salmon harvested by humans. Before Europeans, an equilibrium existed. Humans tilted that equilibrium. As you mentioned, environmental changes aren't helping either.


East coast is slightly different IMO. Elimination of the seal harvest is compounding the equation wrt codfish. That and proliferation of foreign factory ships operating to excess on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks has taken it's toll.
Right you are...but the west coast is a couple hundred years (just a guess) behind the east coast in terms of cumulative impacts.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:57 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,665
Solutions Murray?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 12:05 PM   #8
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Solutions Murray?
Rather severe, I'm afraid.

I'd put salmon and their habitats first, species which feed on them next, then Indigenous Peoples food fishing & traditional trading rights, then reduced commercial interests, then sport fishers.

I'd rather see salmon filling their role in the environment than eat them.

Collateral damage this year in Kitimat has been six grizzlies killed (so far) because they've been forced by hunger into town to eat garbage.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 12:13 PM   #9
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
Rather severe, I'm afraid.

I'd put salmon and their habitats first, species which feed on them next, then Indigenous Peoples food fishing & traditional trading rights, then reduced commercial interests, then sport fishers.

I'd rather see salmon filling their role in the environment than eat them.

Collateral damage this year in Kitimat has been six grizzlies killed (so far) because they've been forced by hunger into town to eat garbage.

I agree with this list for the most part, but commercial fisheries should never be put above sport fishing, for any species, anytime, anywhere in the world.


Commercial fishing, unless properly regulated, wipes out fish stocks, and even when regulated has a huge impact. Sport fishing, particularly catch and release has a much lower impact while creating more jobs and pumping a lot more money into local economies.


Valuing a fish for its commercial value over its recreational value is third world, hand to mouth thinking.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 12:19 PM   #10
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
I agree with this list for the most part, but commercial fisheries should never be put above sport fishing, for any species, anytime, anywhere in the world.


Commercial fishing, unless properly regulated, wipes out fish stocks, and even when regulated has a huge impact. Sport fishing, particularly catch and release has a much lower impact while creating more jobs and pumping a lot more money into local economies.


Valuing a fish for its commercial value over its recreational value is third world, hand to mouth thinking.
I'll agree with that, and add, "You can't effectively manage something you don't fully understand" which is what Federal Fisheries Departments keep proving.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 01:46 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,315
As a former commercial fisherman...
There are many species that depend on salmon, but what about the species salmon depend on? The fisheries have never been properly run. It's a history of over fishing. Foreigners that have destroyed their own marine populations of marine life are here offering every increasing prices for herring eggs and other marine species.
Herring, anchovies and sardines, primary food sources for salmon and many other species were fished to near extinction, in some cases just for fish oil and fertilizer. Sardine populations have crashed twice in my lifetime. Mainly because fishing was restarted too soon as a political decision to make up for other species populations too reduced for commercial fishing.
The salmon need something to eat in the ocean, here, as they cross the ocean and in Asia. Our salmon travel to Asia every year. Some are caught there. But the real issue is their food sources have been decimated. Even 40 years ago when I fished salmon, in cleaning them, their bellies were often empty or I found things like baby crab from scrounging the bottom. Old, very old timers in the 1970s told me the ocean was dying. When they were young, in the harbors, bays and ocean, so they say, there were never less than 3 bait balls (schools of herring etc., ) visible at all times. In my time the occasional ball was seen. When was the last time you saw a bait ball?
I live on the Columbia. Besides the sea lions, there are thousands of birds that come to feed on the fingerlings at different times. You will see big rafts of sea birds that stay for weeks. I've seen them as far up river as Saint Helens. I don't know how many fingerlings a bird eats a day but collectively it has to be thousands. In a season, millions. Astoria often has 2500 to 5000 sea lions. They don't eat fingerlings but they're here because fish of many species are not abundant in their normal haunts. The solution isn't killing the sea lions or the birds.
My point is, there needs to be millions more salmon spawned. Whether naturally or in hatcheries. Hatcheries probably still only hatch enough eggs to meet their quota. In abundant years the extra fish are not spawned. When I had property with a spawn-able stream and no salmon, the state wouldn't allow a fish box ( for raising salmon from eggs). Over the years hatchery fish become smaller. Streams that can support more than one run of salmon, need to be restored. And we need to increase the food supply of salmon. Not only in the US, but around the Pacific. Asian nations only listen to conservation plans with intense international pressure. They're here buying herring eggs because their own herring is decimated. If we're going to have salmon, sea birds, whales (Humpback whales need herring, too), it's not a simple solution.
When I was very young there was no limit on sport fishing salmon. Later it was 25 fish a day. Now it's none. That's how much it changed in a 70 year life.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 04:25 PM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
When I was very young there was no limit on sport fishing salmon. Later it was 25 fish a day. Now it's none. That's how much it changed in a 70 year life.

That mirrors what I've seen in my lifetime on the East Coast with Atlantic salmon and other species of fish. Very sad and very scary.
__________________
David Hawkins
Deer Isle, Maine
dwhatty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 04:33 PM   #13
Guru
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland, MA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: 1990 Silverton 40 aftcabin
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. MM. There are too many sea lions in relation to the amount of salmon harvested by humans. Before Europeans, an equilibrium existed. Humans tilted that equilibrium. As you mentioned, environmental changes aren't helping either.


East coast is slightly different IMO. Elimination of the seal harvest is compounding the equation wrt codfish. That and proliferation of foreign factory ships operating to excess on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks has taken it's toll.
Yes, when there was a bounty on seals, we had an abundance of cod. A typical 300# harbor seal consumes between 12-18# daily. There are numerous pictures recently taken where many of our beaches are completely covered with seals whose population along Cape Cod is estimated to be in excess of 75,000! Sure, they eat other fish along with cod, almost a million pounds of fish daily!

Seals are a big problem here. They eat our fish and attract great white sharks that proliferate our waters. The seal problem will get worse.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 05:11 PM   #14
Guru
 
Bigsfish's Avatar
 
City: Miami River
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,095
Someone needs to develope a recipe for seals like the southeast did with Blackened Redfish. Problem solved.
Bigsfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 05:21 PM   #15
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,437
Regulators in Oregon are now alarmed that the fall steelhead run for the Willamette River has been reduced to 800-1000 or less. Sea Lions are decimating the run to extinction. When you have a less than a dozen sea lions 10-15 years ago at the Willamette Falls and now there are about 2 thousand this year this is not attributed to man or the environment, rather to the uncontrol of a predator.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 05:32 PM   #16
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,030
Greetings,
Mr. B Re: recipe...


https://liveruralnl.com/2011/07/03/n...er-pie-recipe/


OR...


https://saltjunk.com/?page_id=14169


OR


http://whitebearsblog.blogspot.com/2...l-recipes.html
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 05:46 PM   #17
Guru
 
Bigsfish's Avatar
 
City: Miami River
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gotcha
Vessel Model: Grand Banks. Heritage. 54
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,095
RT. I knew you would have the answer ( or just like stirring the pot) pun intended.. See you at the Ft Pierce gathering in February.

Thanks
Bigsfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 06:06 PM   #18
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
Regulators in Oregon are now alarmed that the fall steelhead run for the Willamette River has been reduced to 800-1000 or less. Sea Lions are decimating the run to extinction. When you have a less than a dozen sea lions 10-15 years ago at the Willamette Falls and now there are about 2 thousand this year this is not attributed to man or the environment, rather to the uncontrol of a predator.
Looks like there is very little "natural" left of Willamette Falls. This is what I was getting at when I asked if it was the sea lions fault, or ours for making things worse. Did the engineering work to alter the rivers flow cause salmon to stall and school up in large numbers, compared to what happened historically?

__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 06:17 PM   #19
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Yes, when there was a bounty on seals, we had an abundance of cod. A typical 300# harbor seal consumes between 12-18# daily. There are numerous pictures recently taken where many of our beaches are completely covered with seals whose population along Cape Cod is estimated to be in excess of 75,000! Sure, they eat other fish along with cod, almost a million pounds of fish daily!

Seals are a big problem here. They eat our fish and attract great white sharks that proliferate our waters. The seal problem will get worse.
You might want to read "Sea of Slaughter" by Farley Mowat.

When Europeans first arrived on North America's east coast there were many more species and much higher numbers than we see today, seals included, which were decimated for "train oil" rendered from the fat of cold water mammals.

Point being; there were lots of seals and fish around when we showed up, so I don't think seals are the problem.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 06:53 PM   #20
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,030
Greetings,
Mr. B. Re: Post #17. Stirring the pot? Of course. If you don't stir, the gravy will burn, silly goose.





To the topic at hand...Further to Mr. f's comment regarding the amount of fish 75,000 seals eat in a day, the seal population in and along the Canadian Maritime provinces is estimated to be in the order of 5 MILLION! That's a LOT of fish being eaten.


2 anecdotes: I had a friend who's father was an inshore fisherman in Newfoundland. He was able to supplement his income in the spring by hunting seals. Then the do-gooders forced a moratorium on seal products and coupled with the decline in cod stocks, he was forced to accept welfare or starve. His last days were spent a broken man.


I have another friend who was a lobster man out of Nova Scotia. He was able to support himself and his family for 25+ years in spite of the fluctuating lobster market. He had to sell his boat and equipment about 5 years ago. He told me that on one occasion, his whole string of traps had been smashed by seals. They would break into the traps and eat the bait. He could no longer afford to keep up with the repairs.


I'm sure neither story is unique or isolated.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012