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Old 08-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #41
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I live about 3 miles from the Kings Bay sub base and I see subs going and coming all the time. They do however, give a call out on the VHF channel 16 about 1 hour and again at 30 minutes before the sub is underway or inbound.

They have about 12 escort vessels ranging from 20 something footer inflatables to two boats over 100 feet long.

If you are on the water, they simply ask you to turn your bow away from the sub; a small inflatable usually stands by while the sub passes. I have never had anyone point a 50 caliber at us. I do know however that the last time I was that close, it ws not loaded.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #42
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I have a friend whose son was the commander of the Kings Bay Base. I would e-mail Mark, and ask permission for passage by his base. He would send me back an official looking communication saying permission granted.

One time I went by and told him his security was lax. They didn't even know that I had passed. He sent back an e-mail that said the following:

"Would you like a picture of your smiling face with a red dot painted on it taken through one of my Marine sniper's scope?"
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:17 PM   #43
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We should all be mindful that this is an open source forum and the security posture of one of our national defense Strategic TRIAD assets ( particularly submarine forces) is of interest to the bad guys.
The numbers of escort vessels, size and status of weapons loaded or unloaded as they pertain to US Naval vessels is NOT something that should be blabbed on a general post. The Military treats such info as Official Use Only at a minimum and any security measures that are implemented to protect US National Interests and Military Personal are treated as Classified.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:24 PM   #44
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We should all be mindful that this is an open source forum and the security posture of one of our national defense Strategic TRIAD assets ( particularly submarine forces) is of interest to the bad guys.
The numbers of escort vessels, size and status of weapons loaded or unloaded as they pertain to US Naval vessels is NOT something that should be blabbed on a general post. The Military treats such info as Official Use Only at a minimum and any security measures that are implemented to protect US National Interests and Military Personal are treated as Classified.
That's a good point and when we encountered the escort and the sub we specifically ask if there were any problems with taking photographs. We were told by the Coast Guard escort that it was quite OK. If anyone needs to get this information all they need to do is stand on the shoreline as the entourage passes. Their weaponry, etc. can't be determined by watching the vessels or taking pictures. We have tons of photos of the Norfolk Docks and Security has never given us second look. I'm pretty sure the enemy has more sophisticated methods other than a boaters discussion board. Chuck
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:33 PM   #45
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Chuck, I am probably more springloaded to err on side of caution here due to my career in the Navy and of course having a brother in the submarine service.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:35 PM   #46
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Believe me I understand. Which is why we always ask first. Chuck
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:05 PM   #47
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My son is in USAF security forces. He said to take photos and make any observations you wish. Just do it from outside the security zone. Cross into the zone and the game changes quite rapidly. If photography is not allowed they will let you know.

Before the military moves anything in public the move and potential national security issues have been exceedingly well planned. Along with an appropriate safety margin.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:33 PM   #48
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Believe me I understand. Which is why we always ask first. Chuck
Most of the people who make that kind of statement have to ask in Urdu, Pashtu, or Arabic ... be very careful of what you are willing to give away.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #49
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I'm pretty sure the enemy has more sophisticated methods other than a boaters discussion board.

I don't know..... for a while there I thought they were getting their plays straight from a Tom Clancy novel.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:46 PM   #50
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Nothing posted by the passing trawler crew is of much use in the security sense. It's all public view stuff and if it's more than a few days old...it sure isn't a big deal for asset movement.

Anything inside the base is a different story. Or if we were posting hundreds of pictures or exact dates and times. Or relating a movement to some other info we might have like my brother in the Navy stationed at XXXX was suddenly called up...etc...etc.

People would have to be getting WAYYYYYYY more specific than what's been posted here...all a bad guy would have to do is buy a cheap trawler and hang around to get more than what's here....

And yes I was security officer at 2 major USCG Air Stations during my career that stood up for Terroristic threats during the first Gulf War, for general security issues during the Cold War and the War on Drugs. So I understand military asset movement and fence watching pretty well from the security standpoint....I hope the guys at the sub bases do too!!
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #51
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I don't know..... for a while there I thought they were getting their plays straight from a Tom Clancy novel.
I thought that Tom Clancy did thorough research until in "Hunt for Red October" he had a big boomer going in at Ocracoke Inlet. Many here know how ridiculous that would be. It was corrected in the move, and they took it in to Maine. I do enjoy his books.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:58 PM   #52
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I'm not so much concerned with the assets coming and going as I am with the posting about escorts and security measures. A post was made with specifics about numbers of escorts, weapons readiness status and size of escorts and types. Further a timeline of comms with that asset was discussed. Those are the details that are important not the freaking carrier at the pier or the sub in transit.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:16 PM   #53
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I'm not so much concerned with the assets coming and going as I am with the posting about escorts and security measures. A post was made with specifics about numbers of escorts, weapons readiness status and size of escorts and types. Further a timeline of comms with that asset was discussed. Those are the details that are important not the freaking carrier at the pier or the sub in transit.
That can all be picked up on satellite photos. I always figured the reason that attack sub was coming into Charleston after dark was to hide from satellites.

How would you guys like to take one of those monsters into Kings Bay by giving orders from the tower. For a boat that size it is tight and twisty indeed. One mistake and your career is ruined. You don't want to stick your nose in the mud.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:53 PM   #54
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How would you guys like to take one of those monsters into Kings Bay by giving orders from the tower. For a boat that size it is tight and twisty indeed. One mistake and your career is ruined. You don't want to stick your nose in the mud.
That is why they use civilian pilots who know the waters. Giving helm orders from the sail is no different than doing it from a bridge wing or standing anywhere else on the bridge.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #55
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That is why they use civilian pilots who know the waters. Giving helm orders from the sail is no different than doing it from a bridge wing or standing anywhere else on the bridge.
That is all true, but piloting by giving orders is far different from hands on. I have a good friend who is a retired navy captain that has taught ship handling at the Academy. He told me to walk down to the seawall to look at the chunks of concrete knocked out by the soon to be officers getting confused on orders. He said that is one of the hardest things for the Midshipmen to learn. Most had never handled a boat at all.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:24 PM   #56
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Just remembered,it`s a while back, me and my sailing yacht (a Folkboat) had a brush with the US Navy while USS Missouri was visiting and moored mid Sydney Harbour. We crossed an unmarked proximity boundary while taking a look,and got warned by loudhailer to keep off.
Many of you will know more; I understand Missouri was refitted and put back into service under President Reagan as a national pride exercise. A magnificent sight in the Harbour, even better was the press photo taken off the coast of firing her huge guns along one side, completely enveloping the side of the ship in flame, and smoke.
I vaguely recall Missouri was affectionately called "Mighty Mouse", anyone know?. BruceK
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:41 PM   #57
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Just remembered,it`s a while back, me and my sailing yacht (a Folkboat) had a brush with the US Navy while USS Missouri was visiting and moored mid Sydney Harbour. We crossed an unmarked proximity boundary while taking a look,and got warned by loudhailer to keep off.
Many of you will know more; I understand Missouri was refitted and put back into service under President Reagan as a national pride exercise. A magnificent sight in the Harbour, even better was the press photo taken off the coast of firing her huge guns along one side, completely enveloping the side of the ship in flame, and smoke.
I vaguely recall Missouri was affectionately called "Mighty Mouse", anyone know?. BruceK
Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

You were right, Bruce. I just checked. The Missouri was reactivated in 1984.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:43 PM   #58
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I'm thinking of mounting a gun on the bow of my boat. I wonder how that would play out.
Well, I suppose if the firearm you mounted on your foredeck was legally purchased and legal to possess there's not much anyone could legally do about it. It wouldn't be concealed and if you kept it unloaded it would meet the "in transit" rules most states seem to have. If you enter Canadian waters you'll probably have to open the action as in our experience that is part of their "in transit" requirement for rifles and shotguns.

But while legal, I suspect security forces like the USCG, Navy, etc. would be REALLY interested in you if you happened to cruise by.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:56 PM   #59
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Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

All four of the Iowa-class battleships were used after WWII and Korea. In the late 60s the New Jersey was used in Viet Nam. In the 1980s all four of them were extensivelyi upgraded and armed with missiles and the Missouri and Wisconsin were used during Gulf War I, firing missiles and 16-inch shells into Iraq. The Iowa was part of the Atlantic fleet and participated in joint exercises with European forces.

In 1989 some 50 crewmen were killed in a turret explosion on the Iowa.

All four battleships were decommissioned in the early 90s.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:44 PM   #60
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Bruce, I think that was the "Mighty Mo'. I do not recall it being put back in service, but do recall the Iowa being put back in service. It was used off Lebanon. 18" guns that could hurl a shell about the weight of a Volkswagen about 20 miles.

You were right, Bruce. I just checked. The Missouri was reactivated in 1984.
Thanks for checking it. You are right, "Mighty Mo" was the nickname for Missouri. I think Missouri visited Sydney for a Navy centenary,the amazing sight on the Harbour of what was effectively a huge WW2 battleship, in pristine condition, attracted a lot of interest, the extraordinary photo of her guns firing was published in print and on TV news. I was unaware of the conflict role of Iowa class ships in world events at that time,thanks Marin for that too. BruceK
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