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Old 09-25-2016, 05:51 AM   #81
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The point I was trying to make, is that just because you are a talented guy, doesn't mean that all people out there have your abilities/knowledge base. Otherwise, the statistics I quoted would be reversed. There is CLEARLY a need for skilled tradesmen, and I don't think someone who is not in the business should be advising someone else to do what you can do. Stick to what you do for a living, not what you do as a homeowner. Misleading a person by trivializing the task at hand could lead to some dangerous results.
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:15 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinped View Post
The point I was trying to make, is that just because you are a talented guy, doesn't mean that all people out there have your abilities/knowledge base. Otherwise, the statistics I quoted would be reversed. There is CLEARLY a need for skilled tradesmen, and I don't think someone who is not in the business should be advising someone else to do what you can do. Stick to what you do for a living, not what you do as a homeowner. Misleading a person by trivializing the task at hand could lead to some dangerous results.
That chaps, would appear to be a really good note to end this discussion on, or otherwise it is going to go pear-shaped enough to end up over on the dark side, ok..?
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Old 09-25-2016, 09:12 AM   #83
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Anyone with half a brain can install a breaker interlock into a panel, especially when it is made for that panel and they have some experience. And of course you are an electrician and will discourage anyone from working with electricity to keep you income flowing in.
I'm sure then whatever your profession is that anyone with 1/4 brain could do it. Why do you feel the compulsion to insult someone else's profession?

And everywhere I've lived, this work would require an inspection and sign off, not just through state laws but municipal codes. A significant percentage of house fires are the result of faulty D-I-Y wiring and the use of unlicensed people to do electrical work. While you may be quite capable of doing it well, one must be careful advising others to do so. Regardless attacking another's profession isn't appropriate, in my opinion.
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Old 09-25-2016, 09:57 AM   #84
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I'm sure then whatever your profession is that anyone with 1/4 brain could do it. Why do you feel the compulsion to insult someone else's profession?

And everywhere I've lived, this work would require an inspection and sign off, not just through state laws but municipal codes. A significant percentage of house fires are the result of faulty D-I-Y wiring and the use of unlicensed people to do electrical work. While you may be quite capable of doing it well, one must be careful advising others to do so. Regardless attacking another's profession isn't appropriate, in my opinion.
Did you read that guys first post to me, shows his contempt for me suggesting to DIY an interlock into their panel, and he said what I did was ILLEGAL!

Why you bringing this up, seeing the mod wants this to cool down?

I suppose having codes compliance and Dominion Power check your work, just is not good enough for you, your being extremely annoying. Must be one of them rich folk have everything done for them and hate someone who works on their own stuff.

Taken to your level of extremism, nothing should be allowed by the owner, all things to be performed should be done only by professionals.
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:37 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Did you read that guys first post to me, shows his contempt for me suggesting to DIY an interlock into their panel, and he said what I did was ILLEGAL!



Why you bringing this up, seeing the mod wants this to cool down?



I suppose having codes compliance and Dominion Power check your work, just is not good enough for you, your being extremely annoying. Must be one of them rich folk have everything done for them and hate someone who works on their own stuff.



Taken to your level of extremism, nothing should be allowed by the owner, all things to be performed should be done only by professionals.

Uh... Wow. 😢
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Old 09-25-2016, 11:01 AM   #86
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I'm going to try to get this back on track.

To the OP, one solution I did for a local bud was to build him an enclosure for his gennie. Building an enclosure is tricky as they are air cooled and if not done right, gen can overheat, burn out or worse, catch on fire. In fact one local knucklehead built an enclosure with NO provision for cooling air and it did catch on fire. Brand new gennie toasted, lucky the fire did not spread.

What we built was a plywood box with a baffled air entry and exit. If you run the gen you will see that hot air is blown out at one region, and exhaust is blowing out from another region. Sometimes both blow out the same way. Set it up so this air flows out the baffled exit. On the air entrance side, we mounted a fan to force air into the entrance.

We ran the gen with no enclosure, measured temps in various places with IR gun, then put it in the enclosure. After about a half hour, took lid off and checked temps. Only about 10F higher, so we felt it was safe.

In the box, it was nearly silent.

Get something like a Honda 2000, which is very quiet already, do an engineered box, and the neighbors probably will not hear it at all.

If nobody hears it, nobody is likely to complain to the HOA, and if nobody complains, everyone is happy and you have AC and fridge and lights all night.
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Old 09-25-2016, 11:11 AM   #87
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Mr. Ski. FULLY AGREE!!!! Now, if the contestants will return to their own corners, we can schedule some light entertainment...

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Old 09-25-2016, 05:55 PM   #88
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Took a good look at this. IMO, the attachments at the end of the cabling are too light, the wrong brand, incorrectly designed and badly made. The connecting cable is too short and not heavy enough. Worse still,the components are incompatible, working against each other, and causing significant drift and promoting corrosion.
Comments like this usually reconcile the warring factions and draw fire towards the intervener. Incoming!!
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Old 09-25-2016, 07:45 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Go buy the 5,000 btu window shaker; install it in the guest bedroom window, and buy a power consumption meter. The meter is good for up to 15 amps and will show you how many watts you consumed over night. Then do a test run by sleeping in the room with the central AC turned off and the window unit plugged into the power consumption meter plugged into the wall outlet. No more guessing; you will know how much stored energy you will need. Between the AC unit and the meter, you will probably invest less than $300 in the experiment.
This is me aboard Seaweed. I bought a 5k btu Haier air conditioner -- the cheapest I could find from NewEgg. Figure less than $150.

Next I bought a Killawatt meter -- again the least expensive I could find. I was not interested in lots of readings. I wanted to know what my Haier used in real time.

The paperwork on the Haier said 455 watts if memory serves me. (might have been 445)

In any event my meter has read between 55 watts (fan/not cooling) and 485 watts. Mostly I'm in the 435 to 465 range.

That's real world as of last month figures. Haier is a couple years old. Outside temps were in the 90's.

Good luck.

Were this my issue I'd chill the smallest bedroom with a bathroom (I get up in the night) and close off the rest of the house. Get the little bedroom cool then leave it closed up. Turn the generator back on when you wake up in the morning.

Or use a 5k btu unit on batts. Mine works fine with a 1000 watt inverter. Square wave. My a/c does NOT have the remote control with digital pad. Those require a pure sine wave inverter. My Haier has a dial, nothing more.

Good luck.
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:50 PM   #90
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When the power goes out, and my boat is on the hook down the street in 15 feet of water. What side of the boat should I set my anchor on?
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:47 PM   #91
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When the power goes out, and my boat is on the hook down the street in 15 feet of water. What side of the boat should I set my anchor on?
The bottom side.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:58 PM   #92
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Anyone with half a brain can install a breaker interlock into a panel, especially when it is made for that panel and they have some experience. ...................
I have seen and repaired a lot of things that these people with half a brain have done. Many of these people were highly educated in other fields but had no idea what they were doing when it comes to electrical or mechanical things.

And for some reason, even after they attempted something, screwed it up and had to call on me to make it right, they seemed insulted when I pointed out what they did wrong.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:02 PM   #93
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I'm going to try to get this back on track.

To the OP, one solution I did for a local bud was to build him an enclosure for his gennie. Building an enclosure is tricky as they are air cooled and if not done right, gen can overheat, burn out or worse, catch on fire. In fact one local knucklehead built an enclosure with NO provision for cooling air and it did catch on fire. Brand new gennie toasted, lucky the fire did not spread.

What we built was a plywood box with a baffled air entry and exit. If you run the gen you will see that hot air is blown out at one region, and exhaust is blowing out from another region. Sometimes both blow out the same way. Set it up so this air flows out the baffled exit. On the air entrance side, we mounted a fan to force air into the entrance.

We ran the gen with no enclosure, measured temps in various places with IR gun, then put it in the enclosure. After about a half hour, took lid off and checked temps. Only about 10F higher, so we felt it was safe.

In the box, it was nearly silent.

Get something like a Honda 2000, which is very quiet already, do an engineered box, and the neighbors probably will not hear it at all.

If nobody hears it, nobody is likely to complain to the HOA, and if nobody complains, everyone is happy and you have AC and fridge and lights all night.
Unfortunately, the deed restrictions do not focus on noise levels, they prohibit running a generator during certain hours. It doesn't matter how quiet the generator is, it's still a violation and it's pretty hard to hide the only house in the neighborhood with lights.


Somehow this fact keeps getting lost in the discussion.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:10 PM   #94
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I thought I'd toss a bit of Fort Lauderdale requirements on installations of generators.

EMERGENCY GENERATORS
Requirements for Permitting and Installation
(OPTIONAL STANDBY FOR RESIDENTIAL USE)
Emergency generators must be submitted as a package with the following items:
1. Electrical Permit Application.
2. Two (2) copies of the Electrical Riser Diagram showing entire service, including:
a. transfer switch.
b. all conduit and wire sizes.
c. overcurrent protection of generator and equipment.
3. Two (2) copies of the Generator Specifications (usually supplied by the manufacturer).
Specifications must provide length, width and height of the generator to be used.
4. Two (2) copies of Site Plan (survey) highlighting the location of the generator:
a. showing exact location of proposed generator (minimum 5’ from building openings).
Exhaust must be minimum 10’ from building openings.
b. showing exact location of fuel tank (if applicable).
c. providing the dimensions of the distances between the proposed generator/fuel tank
and the side and rear property lines (set backs).
d. providing verification that generator will be installed at current base flood elevation
or above per FBC 3110.1.2 and FBC R301.2.4 FEMA.
Note: Mechanical equipment and generators cannot be closer than 5’ to the property
lines and 10’ to the water. Equipment can be no larger that 40 sq. ft. in area and
5’ in height.
5. A Building Permit Application is required if a slab is to be poured:
a. if the slab is existing or “prefab”, a building permit is not required.
b. the slab must be a minimum of 4” thick and comply with standards set forth by
FBC 1820.5.
c. specifications for generator anchorage for wind loads per FBC 1612.1.2.
Note: It is the responsibility of the contractor to verify that the soil bearing capacity
will support the slab and generator.
6. If natural or LP gas is used, a Plumbing Permit Application is required from a licensed
contractor.
7. Two(2) Isometric Rise Diagrams with plan view:
a. showing total length and type of piping and chart used to size gas system.
b. showing generator BTU rating.
8. If a non-self contained diesel fuel generator is proposed, a Mechanical Permit Application
is required. In addition, the plan showing diesel fuel holding tanks must be approved by EDP.
Note: Portable generators will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:05 PM   #95
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They forgot to mention you need to measure toenail length and compare that to industry specs..
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:44 PM   #96
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They forgot to mention you need to measure toenail length and compare that to industry specs..
That's part of another rule. Fortunately, contractors here know what the rules are and find them easy to comply with, but do it yourself wiring of any sort is very difficult here and impossible except for a few well trained and with experience, and does require permits and approval.
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Old 09-27-2016, 06:13 AM   #97
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Sounds like complying with the government installation requirements will cost several times more than the actual generator. Guess they only want the wealthy to have them.


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Old 09-27-2016, 06:58 AM   #98
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Bringing it back to what I was originally asking about...

I'm looking at the following:

KEY ASSUMPTIONS
1. window A/C will be 10k btu Frigidaire; consumes about 7.7 amps.
2. over an 8 hour period that will be about 565 ah w/12v battery bank.
3. I'm expecting to be able to run at about a 40% duty cycle, which would work out to be about 226 ah.
4. I factor in a margin of 50% more, and that gets me up to about 340 ah required over an 8 hour period.
5. I will upsize it to 600 ah of capacity just to keep things healthy.

BILL OF MATERIALS
1. 3 x Exide XMC-31 MEGACYCLE AGM-200 Sealed Maintenance Free (AGM) Marine Battery - $750
2. 1 x Xantrex Freedom 806-1840 HF 1800 Inverter/Charge - $475
3. 3 x 4 AWG Battery Cable Set - $25
4. 3 x NOCO HM318BKS Group 24-31 Snap-Top Battery Box - $50
5. 1 x Go Power! FBL-200 Class T 200 Amp Fuse with Block - $56
6. 1 x FFRE1033Q1 10,000 Btu Window-Mounted Room Air Conditioner - $300

Total Price: around $1,650 plus tax

QUESTIONS
1. Will 4 AWG be big enough to tie the batteries together? Cables are 16"
2. Any thoughts on that fuse/block combo?
3. How about the Exide batteries? Any experience with them?
4. Are any of my key assumptions off?

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:45 AM   #99
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Sounds like complying with the government installation requirements will cost several times more than the actual generator. Guess they only want the wealthy to have them.


Ted
It's more like they want to protect the public by making sure the installation is safe.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:09 AM   #100
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It's more like they want to protect the public by making sure the installation is safe.
If it protects against fires, I'm happy. Contractors seem to have no problem complying or getting approval. The generator suppliers are familiar with the rules of each city and can tell you immediately when generators meet the size standards. In an area where many lots that are less than 1/3 acre, your neighbor's fire can become yours very quickly.
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