ban may be keeping some from entering marine industry

[dhays]

Drugstore pain pills as effective as opioids in ER patients - StarTribune.com



Again Psneeld, our family have applied two, Tylenol and Ibuprofen at the same time and achieved rapid relief from aches and pain. Now understand, the use is the rare need. CBD oil on a daily basis achieves blanket continued relief from arthritic aches and pains.

I am licensed to prescribe opioids for short term pain relief. I only have done so a few times. Instead, I do what was described in the article. Normal OTC doses of Acetominiphen alternated with ibuprofen is incredibly effective, particularly for the type of pain my patients are dealing with.

However, that is not going to be effective to treat many of the complaints that some patients treat with MJ. I’m not a medical MJ advocate, but at the same time I do recognize that for many patients it is a necessary part of a treatment regime. Unfortunately, laws like CA’s have trivialized the use of MJ for the treatment of symptoms of certain diseases.

FWIW, I did not support WA legalizing recreational MJ use. I also have no first-hand experience with MJ use as I’ve never used it.

 

[OldDan1943]

Do not underestimate the positive value of hard drugs.

Last year, I was in the hospital, a return visit due to a operation that went sour, internal blood leakage, thigh as big as Thanksgiving turkey. Trust me, I was in pain, BIG TIME. I called 911, wiggled like a snake down the hall and sat close to the door.
The pain was so intense I could not lie still. My head turned right and left without control and I could not uncross my eyes or focus. Yes, I moaned and talked to myself but, did not scream.
In the hospital ER, I was given a choice, a pill or a morphine injection. Being a macho man, I opted for the pain pill. Yea right. When the pill time was about to expired, I asked for a shot. They gave me a shot and almost instantaneous total pain relief. I got some sleep and that really helped. The pain returned, "gimme shot". Total, 3 shots. Each time under the watchful and skeptical eyes of the nurse. LOL Trust me, I turned into a total wimp After the 3rd shot and another operation and a drain, the pain was gone. I made the decision, no need to shoot me up again.

If I had to live with that pain, I would still be on morphine or something stronger than a pain pill.

My point is, do not underestimate the value of hard drugs.
If you are in extreme pain or if you know you are dying and you are in pain, dont worry about becoming addicted. Just worry about dying in reasonable comfort.

 

[foggysail]

RT— You misunderstand my above post. I advocated capital punishment not extended incarceration. We experiment with hopeless solutions while other countries have drugs under control. Duterte is doing a great job in the Philippines in his drug war and of course, how could we overlook China!

Major drug suppliers have little regard for young, human lives they destroy in their quest for riches. Why should we.....or at least I have any respect for their lives. Further, execution must be swift and better yet in a public square just as was done in this country during our early history. And further, I believe in the old fashioned method, hanging or course!

It is all about risk/reward. Major drug pushers believe that the reward is worth the risks. Time for changes!!!! I know there will be a rush of posts following this telling me how they object to such cruelty......ask if I care, it is more important to put the drug scourge behind us!

 

[Woodland Hills]

That would be a hard sell to a parent that just lost a teenager from an overdose. Such occurrences happen too frequently. There is no easy answer for solving the drug problem unless severe punishment is adopted such as that in China or in any of the many countries that have a death sentence for pushing drugs.

Can we start by excecuting the head of Perdue Pharma, the creators and promoters of Oxy-Contin? And then continue on to the the doctors who prescribe it like candy? And wind up with the pharmacy owners who dispense tens of millions of pills in tiny little towns with a couple hundred people?

At the very least they should be forced to disgorge their ill gotten gains via civil asset forfeiture. It seems stupid to concentrate on street dealers when most of the drugs are there due to Big Pharma and their promotion of opioids at all levels. Drug lords today wear suits and are on the NYSE big board and are no more caring of their victims than any other gangster.

 

[foggysail]

Can we start by excecuting the head of Perdue Pharma, the creators and promoters of Oxy-Contin? And then continue on to the the doctors who prescribe it like candy? And wind up with the pharmacy owners who dispense tens of millions of pills in tiny little towns with a couple hundred people?

At the very least they should be forced to disgorge their ill gotten gains via civil asset forfeiture. It seems stupid to concentrate on street dealers when most of the drugs are there due to Big Pharma and their promotion of opioids at all levels. Drug lords today wear suits and are on the NYSE big board and are no more caring of their victims than any other gangster.

Oxy-Contin is a legal drug requiring a doctor’s authorization to purchase. I get it that this drug along with similar habit forming substances provided the initial drug exposure to many who are now addicts. So start there using what ever means you believe will control its distribution. And I question how accurate the claim is pertaining to the percentage of current addicts started with prescription medication. Sure, some did but I doubt most did as many claim.

Heroin is not legal.There are just too many illegal habit forming opioid drugs and other substances on the streets creating addicts to list them in this response. I already suggested a means to control these drugs by increasing the risk to life for those involved in large scale distribution.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. f. I don't think I misunderstood your post. As long as there are addicts, there will be dealers. You can't kill all the dealers and there will ALWAYS be those willing to take the risks of dealing due to the the enormous profits to be gained. Government officials and law enforcement agencies can be bought off. Just another business expense for the drug lords.

Sure. Execute the major dealers, IF you can find them but increase funding for treatment, education and rehabilitation.

I tend to agree with Mr. WH. (post#124).

 

[dhays]

I keep some opiates on board as part of my first-aid kit. I have a LOT of opiates. I’ve had a few minor surgical procedures and each time was given a full bottle of pain meds. In each case, I only ended up taking 1 or 2 and then just relied on OTC pain meds.

(BTW, that is not to imply that I discount Dan’s experience above. There are times when patients need strong pain relief and an opiate is the only thing that will deal with it.)

I hope I never had an on-board injury that would necessitate the use of those drugs, but if we do, I want them available until EMS can take over.

 

[Art]

Greetings,
Mr. f. "There is no easy answer for solving the drug problem..." On the contrary, there is a VERY easy solution to the ongoing drug problem and increased punishment is NOT it.

Look up "US war on drugs" and I very much doubt you will find anyone that is of the opinion that the billions of $$ spent and the countless lives destroyed both by overdose and incarceration has been anything short of an abysmal failure.

https://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/paradox/htele.html

RT - Just read the report. Similar to other [things] I've read before.

Answer is actually pretty simple:

1. Legalize all drugs.
2. Focus on education regarding all drugs use and misuse from grade school on up.
3. Fund "love giving", psychologically and mentally and physically reparative, healing programs for those who for one reason or another became hooked [get addicted].

And of course... #4. Outlaw commercial production of the BIG silent killer - cigarettes! Talk about highly additive, long term habit forming billion dollar promoted "drug!! GEEZZZ...

 

[dhays]

And of course... #4. Outlaw commercial production of the BIG silent killer - cigarettes! Talk about highly additive, long term habit forming billion dollar promoted "drug!! GEEZZZ...

I agree. Cigarettes are the most significant “gateway drug” of them all. More addictive than any other drug and when young brains start smoking, it makes irreversible to the brain that predisposes them to future additions to other drugs.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Dave, I think your word predispose is the key. Some people are more inclined or predisposed to having addiction problems than others. I can happily say I am not predisposed towards addictions. I quit smoking (cold turkey) at 27 years old after 15 years of it, yes started young like a lot my peers. Quit drinking when it started becoming a problem with getting sick. I do indulge in a beer now, but never more than one. Did some level of drugs, MJ and speed when a teen. Haven't done any drugs since 16. I can certainly relate to seeing the need for pain meds after surgery and such. Did a fair amount of Vicodin after surgery on my arm a few years ago, but not since. So for whatever reason some folks are just more likely to have addiction problems than others. I'm sure its genetics but why?

 

[BruceK]

Australia recently restricted OTC pain meds containing codeine to prescription only. The word is a combination of paracetamol(aka acetaminophen) and ibuprofen is effective for many types of pain(it controlled dental root canal pain one long weekend). But not effective for addiction pain, nor in my experience for renal stone pain, proving there is still a place for narcotic analgesics.
In my experience, someone turning up at Court clutching a bottle of Coke was using the caffeine content to counteract some soporific drug, prescribed or (usually) not.
We have legalized a trial of medical MJ,often in an oil form. Apparently with remarkable effects on otherwise uncontrollable frequent seizures, the medical profession and their insurers are very hesitant about it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. dh. "...each time was given a full bottle of pain meds." Therein lies part of the problem. YOU realize the potential problems but most probably a fair number do not. Over prescribing drugs has long been a "problem" IMO.

Mr. A. Legalization of ALL drugs may be a bit rash. At least decriminalize all drugs. Perhaps a steep fine and mandatory drug counseling with no jail time for simple possession of "hard" drugs. (MJ and it's derivatives excepted).

Mr. 78. There is some evidence that addiction is hereditary but no definitive proof AFAIK. Nature (heredity) or nurture (environment) is still the subject of ongoing research for the human condition.

Addictions can appear at all levels of the socioeconomic population and I'm quite sure each one of us knows a "functional" addict. Unfortunately it is the very nature of addictions that most, if untreated, end in premature death.

 

[Art]

Greetings,

Mr. A. Legalization of ALL drugs may be a bit rash. At least decriminalize all drugs. Perhaps a steep fine and mandatory drug counseling with no jail time for simple possession of "hard" drugs. (MJ and it's derivatives excepted).

Just want to mention [mods please look into this]:

I just spent 20 minutes writing a post with what I believe is good, relevant info... then BLIP... I was completing typing and it simply disappeared and was gone completely. Not time left to rewrite. And, until resolution enacted, will need to cut down my posts because of time wasted.

This is second time during the last week or so this has happened to me - any others experiencing similar??

 

[foggysail]

Art—- been there, done that! It is sooo frustrating when that happens and for me at least, it only seems to happen in long posts.

 

[BandB]

I am licensed to prescribe opioids for short term pain relief. I only have done so a few times. Instead, I do what was described in the article. Normal OTC doses of Acetominiphen alternated with ibuprofen is incredibly effective, particularly for the type of pain my patients are dealing with.

However, that is not going to be effective to treat many of the complaints that some patients treat with MJ.

Let's not overlook that all medications have benefits and side effects. Tylenol poisoning is a very common Emergency condition and those with major kidney issues cannot take NSAID's.

A common use of marijuana is for forms of anxiety and panic disorder. Xanax was long the go-to drug and it's widely abused and sold for recreational use. Valium is another example. What about Ambien for sleep. The reality is all anti-anxiety medications have risks and side effects including the most popular self medication, alcohol.

We see the increased use of Fentanyl, far more dangerous when used recreationally than Heroin, yet key in surgical use.

We've shown over and over we cannot control the availability of drugs and when we get one in order, others pop out. I do believe opening the distribution of marijuana as in many states to be a serious problem as now the potency varies widely and is often unknown. I far would have preferred it being by prescription through pharmacies or controlled tightly as alcohol is in some states.

Ultimately, abuse management has to take place at the patient level though. Until we see addiction as a medical issue and treat it and all mental illnesses as such, instead of treating it as criminal our progress will remain virtually non-existent.

 

[sunchaser]

If any of you are Lee Child fans, the latest Reacher novel, "The Midnight Line", very effectively deals with the opioid crisis.

 

[GFC]

Tom, I love reading Lee Child and especially the Jack Reacher books. I just put my name on the wait list so I can download it to my Kindle when it becomes available.

 

[SaltyDawg86]

Can someone tell Tom Cruise he's not Jack Reacher!

 

[BruceK]

Let's not overlook that all medications have benefits and side effects. Tylenol poisoning is a very common Emergency condition and those with major kidney issues cannot take NSAID's.

A common use of marijuana is for forms of anxiety and panic disorder. Xanax was long the go-to drug and it's widely abused and sold for recreational use. Valium is another example. What about Ambien for sleep. The reality is all anti-anxiety medications have risks and side effects including the most popular self medication, alcohol...

Valium was designed to relieve muscle spasm,especially in paraplegics and quads,it`s a muscle relaxant.Then it got used for anxiety.I think it works as a depressant long term.
Many a good kidney was ruined by an OTC combination drug once sold here,called APC, combining aspirin, phenacetin and caffeine, for headache etc.
Alcohol may have the usual cheering up effect initially, but it`s really a depressant, thus the "crying drunk" presentation we sometimes see.
People need to be careful what they put into their systems. The rubbish people are prepared to ingest as a "party drug",without knowing what is really in it, is extraordinary, with some awful results.
It`s no wonder employers make drug use a sacking offense, current or recent. The risk of using again while at work is too great.

 

[Woodland Hills]

At least some civic organizations are aware of the danger of cannabis: https://www.clickhole.com/fairness-win-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-is-removin-1825158635

 

[Group9]

Can someone tell Tom Cruise he's not Jack Reacher!

Picture Vince Vaughn and how it could have been done right.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

And of course... #4. Outlaw commercial production of the BIG silent killer - cigarettes! Talk about highly additive, long term habit forming billion dollar promoted "drug!! GEEZZZ...

I agree. Cigarettes are the most significant “gateway drug” of them all. More addictive than any other drug and when young brains start smoking, it makes irreversible to the brain that predisposes them to future additions to other drugs.

Wait a minute. As long as cigars are NOT included in that ban! If so I would have to take up pot!!!!!

mmm Scotch and a dubby...... I'm not sure the taste would be compatible..

 

[ssobol]

I broke my wrist last fall and needed pins to fix it. When I went for the surgery, the Dr. prescribed 30 Percocet (or maybe Vicodin) for post surgery pain "just in case". It cost me US$12 to fill the prescription. I didn't need to take any of them.

As someone pointed out, Drs. give opioids out like candy and they are very cheap to buy (from a pharmacy). No wonder there is a problem.

 

[BandB]

I broke my wrist last fall and needed pins to fix it. When I went for the surgery, the Dr. prescribed 30 Percocet (or maybe Vicodin) for post surgery pain "just in case". It cost me US$12 to fill the prescription. I didn't need to take any of them.

As someone pointed out, Drs. give opioids out like candy and they are very cheap to buy (from a pharmacy). No wonder there is a problem.

Wifey B: I don't find anything wrong for giving a surgery patient 30 Vicodin. If you were one who experienced pain from the surgery, you'd be glad you had them and he can't call them in for you. So you'd be delayed. Giving 30 post surgery is not giving them like candy. It's writing another round without seeing you that allows abuse.

It's also the doctors who run pain pill mills and write thousands to patients who don't need them at all and then sell them.

 

[Group9]

I broke my wrist last fall and needed pins to fix it. When I went for the surgery, the Dr. prescribed 30 Percocet (or maybe Vicodin) for post surgery pain "just in case". It cost me US$12 to fill the prescription. I didn't need to take any of them.

As someone pointed out, Drs. give opioids out like candy and they are very cheap to buy (from a pharmacy). No wonder there is a problem.

I've had a persistent and chronic wrist injury since 1988. A couple of years ago, I finally got tired of the pain and went to a doctor to ask about my surgery options to correct it. All he wanted to do was to prescribe me opioids for it. I kept telling him, I just want it fixed, I don't want to medicate the pain away.

I finally gave up and went to a different doctor. He gave me the low down on the surgery to fix it (quite invasive and serious, so I declined) but understood why I didn't want to let it make me into a junkie.

I don't know how doping people up became the go-to answer for every medical problem, but it sure has.

 

[Art]

To self heal or to not - that is just part of the question!!

In relation to “pain” pills and how I use them… I have two companies:

One, Solar Air Tech LLC, requires brain-work with little to no physical activity. It is being fashioned to create “waves” [pun intended for TF reasons] throughout the 21st Century world. The other, EZ Build Masonry, is a construction company that builds-with/installs masonry, tile, concrete and stucco materials.. i.e. often heavy duty on-job-site physical activity [as we’ll as internet sales of my patented-tools].

In my construction biz… I do the advertising, sales and calculating bids – in supplement to the much word-o’-mouth job creation that occurs. Younger assistants/associates accomplish most of the physical-lift and material placement realms for me... but... being an in good condition, 66 yr. old, lifelong heavy weight lifter in gyms [installed my own little gym down the hall from my office]... I too like to sometimes get into the mix of lifting and placing [building with] heavy material items. So... occasionally throughout the decades I have several times severely "sprained" my back, shoulders, elbows, knees, wrists… yup you name it I’ve sprained it! Remember when a part of body hurting from "over doing it" was called a "sprain" - LOL.

So…. Back to “pain” pills: My method of sprain remedies is hot or cold applications and positioning/placements of body parts enabling relaxation for natural repair of a “sprain”. Yes, a few times the sprain was so severe that a bit of heavy duty, precript pain reliving pills were required to get “over the hump”… so to say. Mostly when needed I utilize OTC ibuprofen, acedomenathin or aspirin. Soon as sprain-pain has calmed down to a livable extent I quit pain pills and continue on! That is the reason I do not become physically addicted to “Pills”.

Happy “Sprain-Pain” Daze - Art

 

[SaltyDawg86]

Picture Vince Vaughn and how it could have been done right.

I could see that actually. A couple of months in the gym with The Rock and he really could fit the bill!

 

[BruceK]

To self heal or to not - that is just part of the question!!
...So…. Back to “pain” pills: My method of sprain remedies is hot or cold applications and positioning/placements of body parts enabling relaxation for natural repair of a “sprain”. Yes, a few times the sprain was so severe that a bit of heavy duty, precript pain reliving pills were required to get “over the hump”… so to say. Mostly when needed I utilize OTC ibuprofen, acedomenathin or aspirin. Soon as sprain-pain has calmed down to a livable extent I quit pain pills and continue on! That is the reason I do not become physically addicted to “Pills”.

Happy “Sprain-Pain” Daze - Art

I suspect Group9 was advised to have his wrist fused, eliminating pain,set in a usable position, but nevertheless solidly fused in one position. Self healing, and or analgesics of any kind, won`t achieve that.

 

[Art]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art

To self heal or to not - that is just part of the question!!

...So…. Back to “pain” pills: My method of sprain remedies is hot or cold applications and positioning/placements of body parts enabling relaxation for natural repair of a “sprain”. Yes, a few times the sprain was so severe that a bit of heavy duty, precript pain reliving pills were required to get “over the hump”… so to say. Mostly when needed I utilize OTC ibuprofen, acedomenathin or aspirin. Soon as sprain-pain has calmed down to a livable extent I quit pain pills and continue on! That is the reason I do not become physically addicted to “Pills”.

Happy “Sprain-Pain” Daze - Art

I suspect Group9 was advised to have his wrist fused, eliminating pain,set in a usable position, but nevertheless solidly fused in one position. Self healing, and or analgesics of any kind, won`t achieve that.

Re my fist sentence from my above quote: "To self heal or to not - that is just part of the question!!

Felt that the portion "just part of the question..." absolved my post's intent regarding doctor supervised operations and other such...