B737-800 crash in Iran

[Lou_tribal]

In my humble opinion I don't think this was done in purpose knowing that most casualties are Iranian citizens. Would they want to be harmful they would have shot down a different plane...
World is just crazy and if it was not because of some stupid idiots handling power and wanting supremacy over the world this kind of things would never happen.
When will humanity understand that we are all humans, whatever color, culture and religion we have, and all living on the same little rock lost in the middle of the universe?
Maybe only a cataclysmic event would put the counter back to zero and allow all of us to realize that unity allows to make greater things than division and hate.


L

 

[Xsbank]

Incompetent morons. All those dead for nothing.

This is a perfect example of why I laugh every time some dolt says “climate emergency.” To solve a problem such as that requires cooperation and yet we hate each other. Why else do we all have to live by ourselves in our own little houses?

The only reason that we haven’t (yet) blown up this entire rock is because we all have the same weapons and we are all assured of mutual destruction. There have been 5 (as far as we know) mass extinctions in the apparent history of the planet. When the Petrified Forest was being levelled by a volcanoes, North America wasn’t even in the northern hemisphere yet. The planet’s history goes way back; human, not so far. We are a blip, a blink, a twitch in the history of Earth and we are entirely too stupid, greedy and self-absorbed to notice.

Very difficult not to despair...

 

[Group9]

After the Stark suffered 40 dead and 30 wounded from an Exocet attack the month before, the Vincennes helo was taking fire, and in the midst of Vincennes' running gunfight with Iranian gunboats. Not equivalent circumstances.

Probably felt about the same to the passengers.

 

[localboy]

After the Stark suffered 40 dead and 30 wounded from an Exocet attack the month before, the Vincennes helo was taking fire, and in the midst of Vincennes' running gunfight with Iranian gunboats. Not equivalent circumstances.

Bingo.

 

[BruceK]

If Iran can do that by mistake, imagine the risks of them getting nuclear armaments. "So sorry London/Paris/New York.....we mistook a passing star for an incoming missile...won`t happen again". Well it wouldn`t, would it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. BK. Just a bit different. ICBM would have a long lead time and be readily tracked unlike a surface to air missile that only has to travel less than 2 miles. Aside from that, no one should have nukes. Easy to say isn't it?

 

[sunchaser]

Now admitted by Iran, the launch was intentional but the target misidentified. Plus, they only hand seconds to react to what was thought to be an incoming missile.

Bruce you're right, nukes in these Guy's hands is a very scary thought.

 

[psneeld]

Or who could get their hands on one through them who are even more crazy and irresponsible.

 

[menzies]

Nukes in anyone's hands is a very scary thought.

Just think who has the keys to Russia's, India's, the UK's and the US's.

 

[Xsbank]

Did you read that the Iranians are marching and protesting their own government? That they are AGREEING with Mr. Trump's Tweets?

"May you live in interesting times."

 

[Andy G]

A quick browse through Wikipedia shows that about 38 civilian aircraft have been brought down by gunfire or missile attack, since the 1930's.

The majority of the planes were not deliberately targeted, though some were.
Japan, USSR, China, Israel, Bulgaria & the Ukraine apparently deliberately targeted aircraft, the main reason seems to be violation of national airspace.

In all some 105,000 people have lost their lives in aircraft crashes since the turn of the 20th century.

 

[BandB]

Mad men at war is what we have and it's more frightening than I know how to express.

 

[Andy G]

At the risk of incurring the moderators admonishments , which mad men are you referring to?

 

[BruceK]

The really disturbing part is the 737 took off from their own airport and was climbing towards cruise. The Revolutionary Guard didn`t see that,or likely the tail fin and fuselage were lit up,or have a schedule of takeoffs and landings at their airport, or distinguish between a military plane or missile and a civilian 737.... truly scary stupidity.
And look at the absolute denials, even a few hours before "yes it was us, sorry"...

 

[Andy G]

The really disturbing part is the 737 took off from their own airport and was climbing towards cruise. The Revolutionary Guard didn`t see that,or likely the tail fin and fuselage were lit up,or have a schedule of takeoffs and landings at their airport, or distinguish between a military plane or missile and a civilian 737.... truly scary stupidity.
And look at the absolute denials, even a few hours before "yes it was us, sorry"...

It has happened before though.

" the aircraft was shot down by the U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a RIM-66 Standard surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai; all 290 passengers and crew died. USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack. IR655, an Airbus A300 on an ascending flight path, was allegedly misidentified as a descending Iranian F-14."

 

[menzies]

Did you read that the Iranians are marching and protesting their own government? That they are AGREEING with Mr. Trump's Tweets?

"May you live in interesting times."

Not really. About a thousand students met to sympathize with the victims and then turned their wrath on the authorities.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51079965

AFTER they marched Trump and Pence tweeted "we are with you."

Wonder if they would "be with them" after a few of them are killed after being "encouraged."

Maybe, just maybe, it's time for our leadership to keep their yaps shut.

 

[psneeld]

[/B]


It has happened before though.

" the aircraft was shot down by the U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a RIM-66 Standard surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai; all 290 passengers and crew died. USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack. IR655, an Airbus A300 on an ascending flight path, was allegedly misidentified as a descending Iranian F-14."

See post #29 that mightv explain the USS Vincennes situation better.

 

[BandB]

At the risk of incurring the moderators admonishments , which mad men are you referring to?

All of them.

 

[Andy G]

All of them.

Good answer.

 

[CaptTom]

All of them.

This is part of the problem. If you can paint the "other team" to be as bad as yours, then you have free reign to do what you want with impunity.

There are narcissistic and power-hungry individuals in power and seeking power. There are also sincere public servants who are trying to do the right thing. Even they can become corrupted when they realize gaining or holding on to power is the only way to prevent the "other team" from taking over.

It's a messy system. It's far from perfect. Human nature is what it is. It's easy to bad-mouth whoever is in power, or seeking power.

But dismissing them all as evil is as bad as saying "your team" is always right and "the other team" is always wrong. Reality doesn't work that way. It requires some effort to discern the nuance behind the political rhetoric.

 

[psneeld]

Found out even in the military the old saying " at some point..... you have to sell all or part of your soul to get promoted high enough to do any good " was true with only rare exceptions.

The higher you got, the more good you could do.....but almost always the price got higher and higher.

 

[Group9]

Mad men at war is what we have and it's more frightening than I know how to express.

You think the leaders of Iran are more insane than Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin were? I'd say war is always caused by mad men. What sane person wants it?

 

[BandB]

Found out even in the military the old saying " at some point..... you have to sell all or part of your soul to get promoted high enough to do any good " was true with only rare exceptions.

The higher you got, the more good you could do.....but almost always the price got higher and higher.

I'd be horrible at that and Wifey B even more so. We've seen several career military officers recently take positions where they thought they could sell a small piece to make a difference and found out it just wasn't worth it and didn't work that way.

Businesses are often the same way. I was fortunate to work for one that never required me to see any part of my soul. But look at scandals like Enron and Arthur Andersen. We had a major influx of job applications from Arthur Andersen employees in the two to three years before that. All most would say was "it's time to move on" or "Things have changed since I started." I questioned one further and he was just a lower level auditor but he finally stated, "Sales seem to have precedent over auditing and we feel pressured to maintain client relationships even if it means compromising where we don't feel we should." He resigned. We hired him and he ended up as a great employee. The accountants who stayed with AA until the end had a horrible time getting jobs in the industry. Arthur Andersen was once known as the Big 8 firm that made you work the least. By then it was the firm for people without integrity and I'm sure there were many honest employees left but they all had the stigma.

We have a policy that no one ever has the right to ask you to lie or do anything unethical, dishonest or illegal. What people like to call a gray area is seldom gray.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 9. "What sane person wants it?" In the words of the late DD Eisenhower: "...we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex.

As per usual, follow the $$...sigh.

 

[Simi 60]

If Iran can do that by mistake, imagine the risks of them getting nuclear armaments. "So sorry London/Paris/New York.....we mistook a passing star for an incoming missile...won`t happen again". Well it wouldn`t, would it.

If America can do that by mistake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

imagine the risks of them getting nuclear armaments......................oh wait.

 

[Boat]

And this is why politics doesn't work in this forum.

 

[BruceK]

If America can do that by mistake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

imagine the risks of them getting nuclear armaments......................oh wait.

Difference is, America has them, Iran does not. So far. Do you want Iran to have them?
The big powers are not without responsibility. Russia provided the missile and launching system to Ukraine rebels used shoot down MH17, and I read provided the armaments to Iran. Providing armaments to unstable fighting forces is risky, maybe even a deliberate proxy ploy.

 

[menzies]

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/02/middleeast/yemen-lost-us-arms/

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. m. Why is this not a surprise? Al Queda was born of the mujaheddin a "rebel group" (read freedom fighters) which was fully funded by the US from the early 80's onward in order to fight the Soviets. So, in essence, the US basically created Al Qaeda.



What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive...The mind boggles.

 

[psneeld]

I'd be horrible at that and Wifey B even more so. We've seen several career military officers recently take positions where they thought they could sell a small piece to make a difference and found out it just wasn't worth it and didn't work that way.

Businesses are often the same way. I was fortunate to work for one that never required me to see any part of my soul. But look at scandals like Enron and Arthur Andersen. We had a major influx of job applications from Arthur Andersen employees in the two to three years before that. All most would say was "it's time to move on" or "Things have changed since I started." I questioned one further and he was just a lower level auditor but he finally stated, "Sales seem to have precedent over auditing and we feel pressured to maintain client relationships even if it means compromising where we don't feel we should." He resigned. We hired him and he ended up as a great employee. The accountants who stayed with AA until the end had a horrible time getting jobs in the industry. Arthur Andersen was once known as the Big 8 firm that made you work the least. By then it was the firm for people without integrity and I'm sure there were many honest employees left but they all had the stigma.

We have a policy that no one ever has the right to ask you to lie or do anything unethical, dishonest or illegal. What people like to call a gray area is seldom gray.

Sort of..... There are times and situations you whish you could do the right " moral" thing even though if you do, policy will crush you too. Nothing unethical, dishonest or illegal....but immoral being hard to define.....

Sometimes just following policy to get promoted to be a great commander to help hundreds even though it might slightly hurt a subordinate in one given situation is heart wrenching.