Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-12-2020, 06:31 PM   #61
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Difference is, America has them, Iran does not. So far. Do you want Iran to have them?
I dont want anyone to have them.

Quote:
The big powers are not without responsibility. Russia provided the missile and launching system to Ukraine rebels used shoot down MH17, and I read provided the armaments to Iran. Providing armaments to unstable fighting forces is risky, maybe even a deliberate proxy ploy.
Ill just leave this here

https://www.google.com/search?newwin...39.JIbxyiEb3_E
__________________
Advertisement

Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 06:38 PM   #62
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. m. Why is this not a surprise? Al Queda was born of the mujaheddin a "rebel group" (read freedom fighters) which was fully funded by the US from the early 80's onward in order to fight the Soviets. So, in essence, the US basically created Al Qaeda.



What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive...The mind boggles.
Yep

But America has a history of creating enemies, always another war needed to boost profits of corporate America.
I am surprised the uniforms don't have patches with their "sponsors" logos on, Halliburton, Lockheed and the like.
Maybe next year.
__________________

Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 06:57 PM   #63
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Yep

But America has a history of creating enemies, always another war needed to boost profits of corporate America.
I am surprised the uniforms don't have patches with their "sponsors" logos on, Halliburton, Lockheed and the like.
Maybe next year.
Wifey B: NBA has copied FIFA so why not. Wonder what they'll pay to be the sponsors. Then we could get a Sponsor for the Pentagon building. Why not the other buildings? I hear it now. "Coming to you directly from the AT&T White House we have the President". "Here is our colleague Jane Doe interviewing the Speaker as the Bank of America Congress Building." "Here is Sheriff Jones speaking at the Remington Dallas Police Station."

Unfortunately, none of this is humorous and we have to laugh to keep from crying. It's sad when we've reached a time that we're in general agreement everyone is bad or wrong, all of the leaders are mad, and we debate only which countries are worse than the others. It's like a group of kids fighting and then they want to argue over who started it. As a teacher, I faced that, and they were so shocked I didn't just punish the one who started it, I didn't just punish the worst one. Sadly I even recall one case of a parent trying to justify his son's actions by pointing out that another boy called him names and he was just taking up for himself by picking up a book and hitting him over the head.

The world is f^%#'ed up. They're f@$%'ed up. We're f#&&*^'ed up. And I'm f#^%&'ing angry over it all.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 07:00 PM   #64
Hospitality Officer
 
Andy G's Avatar
 
City: Pittwater
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,673
Hmm, I think the thread may be skating on thin ice, and the weather is getting warmer! (well, if you believe in global warming).
Andy G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 08:06 PM   #65
Senior Member
 
localboy's Avatar
 
City: Lake Stevens, WA via Honolulu
Country: USA
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Vessel Model: C-Dory 25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Or who could get their hands on one through them who are even more crazy and irresponsible.
And who have no sovereign country nor any standing army to destroy.
localboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 08:07 PM   #66
Senior Member
 
localboy's Avatar
 
City: Lake Stevens, WA via Honolulu
Country: USA
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Vessel Model: C-Dory 25
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 211
As an Aussie perhaps you should concentrate on Australia...
__________________
Aloha...Mark
localboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 08:10 PM   #67
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
Hmm, I think the thread may be skating on thin ice, and the weather is getting warmer! (well, if you believe in global warming).
Wifey B: And the water is rising. Venice today, can we be far behind in the Venice of America?
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 08:25 PM   #68
Hospitality Officer
 
Andy G's Avatar
 
City: Pittwater
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Sarawana
Vessel Model: IG 36 Quad Cabin
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,673
We would happily take some of your water at the moment, not too saline though (as the thread sails happily off topic, thus saving it from the admonishments of Janet)
Andy G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2020, 11:17 PM   #69
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
Oh Oh, I hear Janet coming down the corridor.

Heads down boys or someone's going to cop it.Probably one of you pesky Aussies.
I started the thread, looking for a cause. Iran said missile causation was "scientifically impossible" so it had to be something else. Unsurprisingly, the surprising Iranian admission led in other directions but it has taken an odd turn.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 07:26 AM   #70
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,123
Greetings,
Mr. BK. I stole this from another site but it seems plausible and accounts for the initial denial of guilt. One branch of government not talking to another. Not uncommon. Very slight editing on my part to make it easier to read...



"Suppose the Iranian authorities who spoke publicly both told the truth.



Day 1. The head of Iran Civil Aviation (Abedzadeh) said the plane had reached a post take off height, had received permission to climb, then experienced a mechanical problem and was returning to the airport. Then radio contact ended and the plane crashed.



Day 2. American 'sources' said the plane was shot down. Iran head of civil aviation denied this, saying the plane was returning and was in safe air space. He said there were 9 other planes in the air in the safe air space.



Day 3, Iran military, head of ground air defense (Salami) said one of his units had fired on the plane. He described how that happened. The anti aircraft operator thought he had a missile or hostile plane headed to the airport or the city. Looks like Iran has safe air space for civilian craft, and restricted air space because of imminent threats. (They had received threats of missile)
Our plane takes off, gets permission to climb, on climbing has an engine glitch, turns to go back to the airport, inadvertently enters restricted air space, spotted and identified as possible threat, fired on. Civil aviation knows only that the aircraft has reported a mechanical problem and is returning, so they don't know about the missile. So when Abedzadeh goes public, he says what he knows, and in reply to American allegation he denies because he figures mechanical problem. It's only the next day he hears military role in firing on the plane."
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 07:50 AM   #71
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,452
RTF: Sounds plausible on the surface, but one problem: On day 1 the military knew they launched a SAM that hit something. They even had a video of the launch and the strike. So they knew this on day 1, not day 3.

Also, if the aircraft had an engine glitch and wanted to return, they would have communicated with the airport and civil authorities would be aware of this.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 07:51 AM   #72
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,920
So, I guess the next question is whether or not the Iranian government will pay compensation through the international court to the relatives and the airline.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 08:16 AM   #73
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,123
Greetings,
Mr. Ski. I agree but there is still so much unknown and given the "sources" of the information, probably some things well never be known to the outside world. I'm simply trying to make some sense of this senseless tragedy. I'm not pointing fingers at or ascribing blame to anyone. THAT can be argued ad nauseum.



On thing I read is the Arab world is taking note and may be attempting to settle some differences among themselves. Who knows? I'm not holding my breath that any peace will come in the ME during my lifetime...The stupidity continues.


Mr. OC. Time will tell.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 09:35 AM   #74
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 20,339
To airline pilots....would it be standard procedure for a foreign airliner to contact their own operations almost immediately for a turnbzck for a mechanical problem?

Not in a Mayday situation.... but there wasn't a Mayday was there?
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 05:54 PM   #75
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,209
Iran denied any involvement in the tanker attacks and fires near its territory. Odd then they got upset when western countries began Navy protection patrols.Iran has ships using the area, you`d think they`d be glad of the protection. But only if they were not the cause.
I put the denials and claims a missile attack was "scientifically impossible" on par with the ship attack denials.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 07:10 PM   #76
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,123
Greetings,
Mr. BK. It's been my observation that EVERYONE involved in the ME has been loose with the truth.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 12:27 AM   #77
Guru
 
ssobol's Avatar
 
City: Leesburg, VA
Country: United States
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
To airline pilots....would it be standard procedure for a foreign airliner to contact their own operations almost immediately for a turnbzck for a mechanical problem?

Not in a Mayday situation.... but there wasn't a Mayday was there?
Either there wasn't time, the crew was too busy, or there was a communications failure. Apparently, the transponder quit at the first hit, so I'm guessing comm or electrical failure.
ssobol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 07:09 AM   #78
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,909
"Then we could get a Sponsor for the Pentagon building."


Sorta like the British looking to raise $850,000 in donations to ring Big Ben when they finally escape the EU?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 08:13 AM   #79
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 20,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssobol View Post
Either there wasn't time, the crew was too busy, or there was a communications failure. Apparently, the transponder quit at the first hit, so I'm guessing comm or electrical failure.
What I am getting at is....

If a routine mechanical failure requiring return to origin or press on, would an airliner make a call to someone other than air traffic control?

Obviously they would be/ should be too busy if a mayday situation.

If hit by a missile, little or no comms would be initiated to anyone.

Not proof positive of anything but damning evidence if internal company comms in routine situations are common.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #80
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,123
Greetings,
Mr. ps. Can't comment on protocol BUT you might get an answer when the "black box" is analyzed IF any attempt at communication was made and was recorded. An analysis may also give some insight into what potential engine problems might have occurred to cause the flight to return to the airport.
__________________

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×