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Old 01-21-2015, 06:33 PM   #21
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I've had guys jump out of the C-130, C-141, and C-5. I never understood why someone would jump out of a perfectly good airplane. I was told that they liked the C-5 because we always sent them out over the ramp. Nothing to hit on the way out.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:09 PM   #22
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Watched a C-130 fly over my house yesterday at 300'. There are times I miss the Air Force.
A few years ago I was taking photos of an Osprey nest on a local lake. I had my camera setup on a tripod with a remote release and the lens was setup perfectly on the nest. All I had to do was wait for Papa Osprey to return with a fish for his mate and young'ns to press the remote release...

I stood there for six hours.

I did get some great photos. Eventually.

While I was waiting for Papa Osprey to return, did I mention I was standing there for six hours, I heard this awfully loud engine noise but I could see nothing. I was on the west side of the lake, looking east with a ridge to my west and a causeway to my south which blocked my view to the south. I have heard loud boat engines on the lake before but this was unlike anything I have ever heard on the lake and it was getting louder and louder as it got closer and closer but as Sgt Shultz would say, "I see NOTHING!"

Then IT appeared over the eastern end of the causeway to my south....

A C130 was skimming the lake and pulled up over the causeway and was heading right at me! WTF!

He was actually loosing altitude as I stood there with my jaw hitting the ground. After I realized what I was seeing, I struggled to get my camera off the tripod to get a photo but by the time I did, he was too close to me and I did not get a good photo. He had to pull up quickly though because he was lower than the ridge to the west that he had to get over.

I missed a great photo of a C130 skimming the lake and heading right at me. Really ticked me off. But it sure was awesome to see.

We have Apaches and Blackhawks fly over the house all of the time as well as some old commie single engine piston planes from a local airport. One night I think two Ospreys, and I ain't talking real fish hawks, flew right over the house just about tree top level in trail. I heard them coming and ran outside to see them pass just over the house. There were loud that is for sure. I THINK they were Osprey's from the sound but I could be wrong. Never seen them before or since but I want too! Fort Bragg has Robin Sage exercises in our county and I think that is what the planes were doing that low.

Later,
Dan
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:14 PM   #23
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I read this last year, good book about perhaps our finest decade. Mach 2 aircraft designed by slide rules, walking on the moon with all the computing power of today's garage door openers.

True hero's back then, real steely eyed missile men.

I think we had a president that flew one of the century series fighters, the F102 IIRC.


"Bush's four-year part-time obligation to serve required him to maintain his immediate readiness to be recalled to active duty in the event of a national emergency. Bush performed part-time Guard duty as an F-102 pilot through April 1972, logging a total of 336 flight hours"
George W. Bush military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:18 PM   #24
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I've had guys jump out of the C-130, C-141, and C-5. I never understood why someone would jump out of a perfectly good airplane. I was told that they liked the C-5 because we always sent them out over the ramp. Nothing to hit on the way out.

My A/C mechanic and good friend who makes his living turning wrenches on aircraft says there is no such thing as a "perfectly good aircraft" he is also a sport sky diver.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:39 PM   #25
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The definition of a perfectly good air craft is one that makes a safe landing. In Alaska we sometimes wonder if that will happen.
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:02 PM   #26
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Gentleman once you have finished this book I would encourage you to add another log to the fire, top off your brown colored drink and download, Bonnie-sue: marine corps helicopter squadron in Vietnam. I asked a friend how he got his Purple Heart. He suggested I read this book and then I would know. Holy cow was he right. This book put it into crystal clear perspective what it was like. TB was on Carlos Hathcock's insertions team and was shot during a mission. To you guys that have served THANK YOU!
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:37 PM   #27
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If you likes go fasts, here's a link to a nicely done video featuring Navy F-18 flights If I remember correctly, I believe it features launches off the Nimitz as well.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6F4954D020B93D
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:44 PM   #28
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My co-pilot Dad's B-17G became an imperfect airplane when AAA blew a hole in the wing, knocked out the oxygen system, started a fire, and wounded most of the gunners, over Merseburg, Germany on Sept. 28, 1944. Crew all bailed out.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:05 AM   #29
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My co-pilot Dad's B-17G became an imperfect airplane when AAA blew a hole in the wing, knocked out the oxygen system, started a fire, and wounded most of the gunners, over Merseburg, Germany on Sept. 28, 1944. Crew all bailed out.

The courage demonstrated by the pilots and crew of the heavy bombers over Germany was remarkable. I salute each and every one.

I don't know how they did it given the odds of completing the required missions (starting at 25 then as the need required up to 35) were less then 5%.

Greatest generation!!
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:29 AM   #30
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We have Apaches and Blackhawks fly over the house all of the time as well as some old commie single engine piston planes from a local airport. One night I think two Ospreys, and I ain't talking real fish hawks, flew right over the house just about tree top level in trail. I heard them coming and ran outside to see them pass just over the house. There were loud that is for sure. I THINK they were Osprey's from the sound but I could be wrong. Never seen them before or since but I want too! Fort Bragg has Robin Sage exercises in our county and I think that is what the planes were doing that low.

Later,
Dan
The army has a Ranger training camp near Suches, GA. That is near our mountain cabin. Training can encompass large swathes of Union and Fannin counties especially along the Toccoa River near the cabin. Lots of helicopters and planes flying around. There are some really funny stories about what happens around their training exercises. They are sent out without supplies, and are in survival mode.

http://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/DOL/CampMerrill.htm
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:42 AM   #31
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The courage demonstrated by the pilots and crew of the heavy bombers over Germany was remarkable. I salute each and every one.

I don't know how they did it given the odds of completing the required missions (starting at 25 then as the need required up to 35) were less then 5%.

Greatest generation!!
Those guys were amazing! 8th Air Force alone had more killed than the entire USMC during WWII.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:55 AM   #32
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My co-pilot Dad's B-17G became an imperfect airplane when AAA blew a hole in the wing, knocked out the oxygen system, started a fire, and wounded most of the gunners, over Merseburg, Germany on Sept. 28, 1944. Crew all bailed out.
One of the still flying B17s flies into our area every two years for tours and fund raising. The plane was here last year and flew over the house numerous times! Hearing those four engines is awesome. The only thing better is hearing more than four. When I was in school a B17 AND a B24 were giving tours at a nearby airfield. I did not have time to get a tour but I could park near the end of the runway where both planes were warming up prior to take off. I would guess I was only a hundred feet or so from the planes and the sound was magical. You could feel the engines. Eventually, the two planes took off and buzzed the field a few times before flying off to the next show.

Even the single B17 flying over the house was awe inspiring but seeing those two old birds flying was amazing. Seeing, hearing and feeling hundreds of those planes flying overhead on a mission must have been thrilling and powerful for the allies and scary as heck to the people about to be bombed.

When the B17 visited two years ago, my oldest and I did the tour. Ground tours were free and you could fly for about $400 a person. I REALLY wish I had spent the money....

We actually went on both a Saturday and Sunday to visit the B17. We arrived early in the morning but it was summer time so it was already a bit warm and humid. I had on my camera backpack, which is rather large and I could not wear it inside the plane, even getting on the plane via the rear hatch was difficult. The sun had been up only a few hours but the plane was an oven, even wearing shorts and a polo shirt, I was quickly drenched in sweat. I can't imagine what it was like in these planes in the Pacific.

I have read about the WWII planes and history since I was in grade school but it still shocked me to see the thinness of the aluminum skin. A beer can is thinner but not by much. In Savannah GA, there is the Eighth Air Force museum right next to I95. If one is driving through Savannah, one really should spend a few hours at the museum. We have stopped several times and still need a few more visits to see it all. They have at least one Mig, an F4, and a B47 outside along with a B17 inside and some other planes.

One piece in the museum is a B17 wing section from a plane that was shot down over Belgium. Some of the crew survived being shot down and decades later, one of the crew, found that the wing of their plane had been used by a farmer to shelter animals. The crewman was able to get the wing shipped to the 8th Air Force Museum. You can walk right up to the wing and touch it which is pretty cool. What is impressive is how stout the wing is built. It is an amazing structure, even when using a thin skin of aluminum.

But that thin skin would barely stop a BB from Red Ryder BB gun.

The other thing I noticed about walking around the B17 is the tightness of the space. Like I said I could not walk around with my back pack on my back. While the mid section of the plane was not TOO bad, the tail gun was tight and getting forward across the bomb pay to the cockpit was even worse. The cockpit and forward cabin was tight tight. I can see why many of the crew to the rear of the bomb bay would abandon the plane via the bomb bay. The hatches out of the forward section of the plane were tiny tiny. How anyone bailed out of those hatches amazes me but I guess if your choice is get out or die, you find a way.

Course if your were the ball gunner, and the ball did not stop in just the right position, you were not getting out at all. I don't know how those guys climbed down into these balls. I know some died after the ball was stuck out of position and the plane had to land on its belly.

One thing is for sure. The crew on the B17 were much SMALLER than today's adults. There were many visitors who were to "large" to walk across the bomb bay walkway which has a V support that is rather narrow.

Later,
Dan
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:12 AM   #33
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For those pilots in SAC, I remember reading this is the Ops Plans section:

Typical SAC mission profile: Taxi on the yellow line, takeoff on the white line, fly on the black line, refuel at the circles, turn on the squares, bomb the triangles, and land at the double circle.

Tom
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:58 AM   #34
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For those pilots in SAC, I remember reading this is the Ops Plans section:

Typical SAC mission profile: Taxi on the yellow line, takeoff on the white line, fly on the black line, refuel at the circles, turn on the squares, bomb the triangles, and land at the double circle.

Tom
My time supporting SAC was an eye opener.
I'd been 4 years in USAFE basically supporting mostly F-4s and other NATO birds, so I got to know the fighter mentality.

I thought American fighter pilots were a trip, the Europeans, many flying 104s were really out there.

Then, SAC.

Very different mentality, but not worse, just different.

While the fighter pilots were hot blooded, the B52, 135 & RC 135 pilots were cold blooded.

Just as determined, but maybe in the back of their minds, they knew those 8th AF loses weren't fighters.

They also knew the difference in the war plans.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:08 PM   #35
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The army has a Ranger training camp near Suches, GA. That is near our mountain cabin. Training can encompass large swathes of Union and Fannin counties especially along the Toccoa River near the cabin. Lots of helicopters and planes flying around. There are some really funny stories about what happens around their training exercises. They are sent out without supplies, and are in survival mode.

The United States Army | Fort Benning
My dad and I used to go camping in the GA mountains back in the early 70s. We would see long army convoys on those trips and we would often pass through army check points on the Forest Service roads. One of our favorite places to camp was near an intersection of Forest Service roads, you took a right when you got to the intersection and saw the 120mm mortar that was left there for some reason.

The camp site was a company sized perimeter carved out of the woods and included fox holes. For some reason, there was a huge pile of saw dust in the middle of the perimeter which we liked to play on. Even better, buried in the saw dust was 7.62 brass which we loved to dig for and find.

Years later my dad and I were bear and boar hunting in the TN mountains. We were up on a ridge where I was sitting and enjoying the peace and quiet looking DOWN into the valley below. My quiet was disturbed when an F4 flew BELOW me! I could clearly see the helmets and face plates of the pilot and RO as they flew BELOW me! It was nice and quiet and then ROOOOOOOAARARRR as that F4 went by. Danged near pooed in my pants.

A few years after that, my dad and I were out on his sailboat on Key Biscayne. F16s from Homestead were making runs on us. Now they never got close, they would stack up a good distance away but we would see them peal off, and aim right at us in a shallow dive that they would hold for awhile before pulling up and repeating. It was cool I have to admit. As long as the kept pullup up that is!

Later,
Dan
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:20 PM   #36
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Then, SAC.

Very different mentality, but not worse, just different.

While the fighter pilots were hot blooded, the B52, 135 & RC 135 pilots were cold blooded.

Just as determined, but maybe in the back of their minds, they knew those 8th AF loses weren't fighters.

They also knew the difference in the war plans.
We lived for a few years across the river from Barksdale AFB in LA. I could climb the pine tree in the front yard and see plane landing/taking off at Barksdale. One day a B52 flew LOW over the house, I am guessing they had some sort of emergency for him to be flying that low over the house. He was banked really tight too and making one heck of a turn to get back to the runway. The whole house was shaking and I could hear the window frames were making a heck of a racket. Never saw a B52 fly that low before or since. Impressive but scary because he was so low and loosing altitude in that turn over a built up area covered in subdivisions....

My school was a short bike ride away. I thought it was really funny that we would do Duck and Cover drills. What freaking difference would it make with a SAC base so close by? Our butts were going to get fried if those B52s starting taking off in earnest. I always wondered if the other kids knew what I knew as we played the Duck and Cover game under our desks. I think they were clueless which is a good thing.

Ironically, my oldest and a friend were really excited this week by some new music that was just release by the Fall Out Boys. I asked them if they knew what Fallout was and they did not have a clue. I THINK this is a good thing. They have never had to do Duck and Cover drills and think about what it represented. That is a good thing.

Later,
Dan
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:43 PM   #37
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Richard, while going to college in Winter Park near Orlando, I lived next door to a SAC B-47 pilot (McCoy AFB was active then). I guess that pretty well dates me. The 47 pilots were a pretty wild bunch. For the last couple of years of school, I moved up north of town. I was in the midst of a bunch of carrier pilots at Sanford Naval AS. They trained there when their carriers were in Mayport. That was the craziest bunch I have ever been around.
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:01 PM   #38
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Yes.
Before I got to March AFB ,they had a Buff takeoff and lost all 4 engines on the one wing.

He climbed to eject, but as soon as he was away from the ground effect, the plane stalled and the crew was killed.

So probably that crew knew to keep it low to RTB
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:55 PM   #39
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I was in the midst of a bunch of carrier pilots at Sanford Naval AS. They trained there when their carriers were in Mayport. That was the craziest bunch I have ever been around.
Careful now, some of us might resemble that remark . . . . .
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Old 01-22-2015, 04:28 PM   #40
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Richard, while going to college in Winter Park near Orlando, I lived next door to a SAC B-47 pilot (McCoy AFB was active then). I guess that pretty well dates me. The 47 pilots were a pretty wild bunch. For the last couple of years of school, I moved up north of town. I was in the midst of a bunch of carrier pilots at Sanford Naval AS. They trained there when their carriers were in Mayport. That was the craziest bunch I have ever been around.
Jeese, I can't stay out of this thread.

I am from Orlando and my parents went to school and grew up there way before the Mouse House was built. McCoy AFB, which is now Orlando International Airport with a code of MCO, used to be called Pinecastle. Pinecastle became McCoy AFB after the B47 Wing CO who was killed in a plane crash in Pine Hills.

What I did not know until recently was that the plane crashed near the old harness racing track at 441 and Lee road. I have driven by that intersection a gazillion times and did not know a plane crashed there, much less that McCoy died in the crash and gave his name to the airport.

My mother was in school, heard a boom and with the rest of her class looked out the windows to see McCoy's plane break up in midair and crash. McCoy's plane was seen flying lower than the radio/TV towers in the area before turning back to the NW away from downtown. Nobody is likely to ever know what happened to the plane but it seems that McCoy piloted that B47 into the ground. There were plenty of eye witnesses who saw the plane flying over and near multiple schools and populated areas. The plane was over/near my mother's school that is for sure. One witness said he saw the plane's nose rise so that the plane went over his school before crashing.

The crew did have ejection seats and could have punched out but they did not...

When I first started flying in/out of MCO as a kid, the base was sill open and space was shared with commercial flights. The terminal was an old hanger that I think was used for a guided missile program. Flying into MCO now is unreal given how large the airport has become compared to those old two hangers. My granny and I use to drive down watch the planes take off and land from a spot were you could park right across the road from the north end of the runway. Ya can't do that any more.

Later,
Dan
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