Air France 447 transcript

[Baker]

Al, either I am misunderstanding you or you are contradicting yourself. You at first stated that no airplane tail should fall apart just because the pilot went full deflection on the rudder. And then you post up the "legal reasons" why it did fall apart.

I am very well aware of the proceedings of the investigation of AA crash. We are immediately informed and many times our training is changed to reflect the findings in these cases. This was the case with the AA crash and it is the case with this Air France crash. Our stall training has completely changed because of this accident and I am not sure it is for the better.

 

[FlyWright]

From what I read in the report, the pilot's control inputs occurred BELOW VA. Is this correct?

 

[FlyWright]

OK, I just quickly reread that portion of the report. The aircraft was at 251 Kts. VA is 270 kts. The structure failed even though the pilot inputs were 19 Kts below the 270 Kt Maneuvering Seed.

Before this accident, there was no mention of control inputs below this speed causing structural deformation or the loss of airplane parts in flight. Pilots were taught that all control inputs below VA were safe and non-damaging to the aircraft structure. After this accident, Airbus issued the bulletin quoted above to spread the word that this has occurred and could continue to occur.

The report findings point to contributing factors of the American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Training Program and characteristics of the A300-600 rudder system.

Your post #27:

"Al, you have heard of the term "maneuvering speed"(Va), have you not??? I know you have... The whole premise of that speed is that below it, you can make full and abrupt control inputs without harm to the structure. Above that speed, then damage can occur. "

Agreed. This aircraft was being flown below this speed limitation.

Post 27 continued:

"And transport category aircraft only have to make a full deflection IN ONE DIRECTION for the certification of the rudder at Va. On AA587, the FO made numerous full and abrupt inputs in opposing directions...well above Va."

This info was disseminated to pilots during post-accident training and added to the manual after the accident via bulletin. This was not common knowledge or accepted industry practice among pilots.

I'm not trying to call your baby ugly, but name one other airplane which had its vertical stabilizer fall off due to overstressing rudder inputs below maneuvering speed. I can't think of a single one but I'm not an expert in the areas of structural integrity or accident investigation.

 

[Baker]

Hey, don't bring my baby into this!!!!..... I got it now. I have to admit to being lazy because of being on my phone and not going back and rereading everything to make it all cohesive again.

 

[SomeSailor]

Two questions

• Did the MD acquisition maintain this philosophy
• Are the newer the Boeing designs sticking with conventional yokes

1 - I've heard that said around here before

2- As far as I know, no intent of going that direction. I would never think an asymmetric joy stick, with no cross functional feedback could beat the tactile feedback that a pilot gets from a yoke.