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Old 01-28-2013, 11:14 AM   #21
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Are you saying that the SMA actuated chevrons are currently installed and flying (were flying) in the production 787?

If they are, it is a remarkably well kept secret.
Not a secret. Innovation.

Here's a presentation off the Internet: http://depts.washington.edu/amtas/ev...composites.pdf

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Old 01-28-2013, 01:14 PM   #22
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They are also on the 747-8. The 747-8 has them on both the cowl and the exhaust "ring" of the GE engine core itself. I don't know if the chevrons on the engine exhaust are SMA or are static.

We were producing videos about the development of the SMA cowl chevrons years ago and the technology was working well way back then. But I did not know the chevrons on the production 787s were actually using this technology until fairly recently when I asked one of our technology development managers about them.

I don't think the SMA chevrons have been kept a secret. We've been producing stuff about them for years some of which was for use outside the company. But they're not very glamorous and the explanation of what they do, why they do it, and how they do it is too technical for the typical "sound bite" story so they've been pretty much ignored by the media who tend to focus on the simple things like dimming windows.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:10 PM   #23
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There seems to be a bit of dancing around in the smoke going on here ...

Are the chevrons on the production (read that as "delivered") 787s equipped with SMA (or any other type of) actuators or not?

If they are it should be very simple for one of you Boeing guys to supply a link or a reference to a document or press release that states categorically that those chevrons are dynamic in function.

All that the public (that means everyone not a Boeing employee) has been shown by NASA, the FAA, and every other educational or research facility that has published documents about the technology, simply refers to the early research that was done by Boeing and NASA. The "presentation" linked in post #21 is a 2004 PR piece.

Both responses to my question have been nothing more than a "non-response" to the direct question.

The general public and the aviation press in particular are far from too ignorant to understand this type of information. And I can assure you that most of us can tell when someone is trying to blow smoke up our butts.

Surely some PR flack at Boeing has published something somewhere about dynamic chevrons and how they have made the 787 the quietest flyer since the owl was invented. There is much written about the chevrons themselves because they are visually appealing but there is absolutely no reference in the public domain about their being active - or not, just a lot of questions. Until you published the statement that they are active, or at least adaptive, nothing in the world's aviation press or engineering literature claims that they are anything other than passive noise reduction features.

So, is this a Boeing secret that you inadvertently released? If so, why are the world's aviation writers purposely being kept in the dark about something that one would think Boeing would be ringing bells and shouting from the rooftops about?
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #24
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Didn't have time to read it all but here I go...

I don't watch the news anymore....I want to choose my own ignorance...and it is wonderfully blissful!!!!...or blissfully wonderful???!!!


AND.....make no mistake...an airline seat is a commodity. If you think pork bellies should be the same price day in and day out, then there ya have it!!! Our schedules are not the same day in and day out. They are altered due to market pressures.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:34 PM   #25
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If so, why are the world's aviation writers purposely being kept in the dark about something that one would think Boeing would be ringing bells and shouting from the rooftops about?
I'm not going to comment on the production design of the 787, but here is a Boeing Frontiers article that may help you.
Boeing Frontiers Online

And here is a backgrounder walk-around shared at Farnborough this year:

http://www.boeing.com/farnborough201...monstrator.pdf

We have a 787 ecoDemonstrator lined up for this year and our gear flew on the 737 eco last year. Some very cool stuff on the 787 and even more coming.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:11 PM   #26
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Pardon my guffaws but post #25 is simply a rerun of the old press releases on upcoming technology and ongoing research projects.

There is a big difference between a technology demonstrator, or an engineering test item, and a production product.

Just for grins and to firmly establish the fact that it is all but impossible to get a straight answer out of Boeing's online apologists:

Does the 787 nacelle incorporate active "scallops" for noise suppression as Marin has stated twice? Or does it not?

A simple yes or no from the Boeing experts online will do. There is no need to post more links to old news.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #27
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A simple yes or no from the Boeing experts online will do. There is no need to post more links to old news.
You need to re-read my post above. I'm not going to comment on the production design of the 787. It is a very cool airplane though isn't it?
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:56 PM   #28
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Looks like the Japanese and Boeing are using the same technologies to control exhaust gases!!
Artificial Sphincter Using Shape Memory Alloy Actuators.(research and product development)(Brief Article) - Japanese Biotechnology & Medical Technology | HighBeam Research
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:05 PM   #29
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I wonder if it has Chevrons to make it quieter?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:55 AM   #30
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You need to re-read my post above. I'm not going to comment on the production design of the 787.
I'll forego the well-deserved guffaws and let the membership decide for themselves the level of veracity associated with Boeing's local representatives, but an unimpeachable source in Boeings "Smart Materials and Structures" department (one of the guys who wrote the presentation linked in this thread) replied to my enquiry in writing, in no uncertain terms, with no smokescreen or third-hand escape clause language ... "They are fixed."

Why can't people just say "I don't know" or "I'll find out" rather than blow smoke or make up some lame reason that implies they know more than the rest of us can understand or are entitled to know?

The thread title is insulting enough but when the "information" provided is either bogus or simply self-serving it makes you wonder how valid the rest of the story being fed to the "ignorant" public might be.

I foolishly expected better ...
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:16 AM   #31
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I'lr themselves the level of veracity associated with Boeing's local representatives, but an unimpeachable source in Boeings "Smart Materials and Structures" department (one of the guys who wrote the presentation linked in this thread) replied to my enquiry in writing, in no uncertain terms, with no smokescreen or third-hand escape clause language ... "They are fixed."
You can believe him if it makes you feel better.....
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:22 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=RickB;130548]Why can't people just say "I don't know" or "I'll find out" rather than blow smoke or make up some lame reason that implies they know more than the rest of us can understand or are entitled to know?
QUOTE]

Some folks need to be seen as knowing everything about everything. God like. A lot of Surgeons have that complex as well. Not all but a lot.

Remember the Model 35 Bonanza. Perfectly good airplane until you did something like come out of a cloud bank at 3,000 feet headed for the ground at 190 mph. What was the saying "Gods way of limiting the number of Dr's. on the planet". "Don't need no stinkn IFR I know up from down."
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:12 PM   #33
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Surgeons , and lots of MD's have a complex ,

that usually KILLS them when they attempt to fly a twin after loosing one!
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:01 AM   #34
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Gee ... I guess our windows into Boeing have been dimmed.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:35 AM   #35
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I guess our windows into Boeing have been dimmed.

There in the news all day , but it hasn't dimmed the stock price.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:42 AM   #36
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Gee ... I guess our windows into Boeing have been dimmed.
The official and legal position, to satsfy SEC disclosure rules, was made yesterday by the Chairman McNerney. He said that Boeing doesn't know the timing or solution of the electrical fix but they remain confident of Li technology. I would guess the gag order is out, as well it should be.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:43 AM   #37
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Remember the Model 35 Bonanza. What was the saying "Gods way of limiting the number of Dr's. on the planet".
The "Forked Tail Doctor Killer." I remember it well! My buddy (Dentist) had one and we had a ball in that airplane.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:26 AM   #38
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The "Forked Tail Doctor Killer." I remember it well! My buddy (Dentist) had one and we had a ball in that airplane.
I also knew someone with one. He said that when the weather got snotty he would put the gear down and some flaps so as to dirty the plane up and he never had a problem. Slowed him down to 120 kts or so The biggest problem was the plane headed straight down cleaned up could exceed Vne. I always thought the AD for the tail was a joke. It consisted of two AL braces on the leading edge of the Ruddervators inboard near the fuselage. Not exceeding the Vne was the real answer. But something has seemed to have worked as you don't hear of them burning in anymore. Maybe more are IFR than before as well.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:45 PM   #39
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Gee ... I guess our windows into Boeing have been dimmed.
No, just that there is no value or anything to be gained by discussing something with people who clearly have no clue as to the reality of the situation or the industry.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:19 PM   #40
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Maybe there is some value in providing enlightenment to those who don't share your insights?

All I ask is that the statements are true and any editorializing is identified as such. Your personal beliefs or impressions, and those of your Boeing colleague have no greater intrinsic value than the thoughts, beliefs, and prognostications of the great unwashed who have been deemed unworthy of receiving the crumbs from your loaf of Boeing knowledge.

As has been made quite clear in this thread, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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