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Old 01-16-2015, 12:14 PM   #61
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Meanwhile, we can enjoy the sound and exhaust of our diesel engines.

Yep and Amen.....
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:56 PM   #62
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Here's another thought...

What if the price drop is being orchestrated to starve rebel groups and rogue states from funding their ambitions by selling oil on the black market? If I was Saudi Arabia, I'd be getting n-n-n-nervous by the goings on in my neighbourhood.
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:42 PM   #63
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I think the political and economic aims go far beyond Putin and Russia. This plus the glut of oil on the market and the (at least for now) lower demand in Europe and the US are driving the price down. North America is not the primary buyer for Middle East oil and it's my understanding that this was the case even before fracking became the flavor of the day.

I don't think the Saudis give a hoot in hell about our fracking activities, frankly. I think a more important concern to them is stability in the region. One way to help achieve this is to influence the economies in the region and a major tool for doing that is oil.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:31 PM   #64
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Mark,
Raise you one ... underway w 20hp.

Thanks Marin,
We so often don't see the worldly picture. We've got our foot in so many worldly pies it's hard to tell where we are and what it all means. I agree w your post above.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:23 PM   #65
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Mark,
Raise you one ... underway w 20hp.

Thanks Marin,
We so often don't see the worldly picture. We've got our foot in so many worldly pies it's hard to tell where we are and what it all means. I agree w your post above.
Eric-- Your wake reminds me of the wake of the narrowboats we run on the English canals: not much more than a slight disturbance on the water behind the boat.

Working for Boeing has provided me and the crew I am part of with a unique opportunity to be exposed to viewpoints of people (and governments) all over the world. And the nature of the people we are working with as well as the nature of our industry allow us to learn a lot about what makes these different countries tick.

The greatest value, I think, has been to see that the world does not revolve around the US, that other countries have as much to offer the planet as we do. We've also come to see that aspects of other cultures that we tend to make fun of---"The Japanese are all like this and always do such-and-such"--- have good reasons behind them in the context of that culture.

We find it fascinating and very thought-provoking to hear the viewpoint of a Taiwanese business executive on the current oil situation or the CEO of an airline in Europe about the challenges Muslim immigration is causing his and his neighboring countries.

Doesn't mean their viewpoints and predictions are automatically correct, but they give one a different perspective and more information to use in drawing up one's own ideas and beliefs.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:59 AM   #66
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An Update storing 40 Million barrels at sea

Traders Book Oil Tankers to Store 40 Million Barrels at Sea - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:14 AM   #67
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That'll run the traffic in São Paulo, Brazil for a day.
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:00 AM   #68
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At our hardwood mill we make 40 tons of hardwood fuel pellets with the off fall from making hardwood flooring everyday . For the last year at least we have not been able to keep up with our demand . We are a small mill compared to most . We use 400 hp and two men to produce 40 tons in 8 hrs . It's slowed down some lately with the lower propane prices .
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Old 01-23-2015, 11:17 AM   #69
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There is no conspiracy here. The invisible hand of the market sets prices. There is now more supply than demand. 40 million gallons is two days usage in the U.S. When the world economy picks up, not just the U.S., demand will rise and so will prices. Enjoy the price break while you can.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:04 PM   #70
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At our hardwood mill we make 40 tons of hardwood fuel pellets with the off fall from making hardwood flooring everyday . For the last year at least we have not been able to keep up with our demand . We are a small mill compared to most . We use 400 hp and two men to produce 40 tons in 8 hrs . It's slowed down some lately with the lower propane prices .
That's a lot of energy to make pellets, and a lot of wages!
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:31 PM   #71
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News discussions: Fuel source, price – etc… post Saudi leader’s death…

It's downhill for US after Saudi king dies: Kilduff.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:47 PM   #72
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There is no conspiracy here. The invisible hand of the market sets prices. There is now more supply than demand. 40 million gallons is two days usage in the U.S. When the world economy picks up, not just the U.S., demand will rise and so will prices. Enjoy the price break while you can.
Exactly!

We all know that oil prices have been artificially high for decades due to OPEC limiting production.

If you think about it, its the fact that OPEC has limited production that actually made shale oil profitable in the first place.

Thats really gotta have OPEC members thinking. They caused the shale oil boom through their actions. Now, we have developed the technology, and this is the big thing, we will continue to improve it, allowing more production at lower costs.

So OPEC is in a quandry. Do they remove production quotas, and let the price settle out naturally? Or do they limit production, keeping prices higher than they naturally would be, knowing full well that US producers will be innovative and find a way to make shale oil profitable?

OPEC members are in an unenviable position, one that will in the end benefit everyone due to lower energy prices, no matter how it shakes out.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:59 PM   #73
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Exactly!

We all know that oil prices have been artificially high for decades due to OPEC limiting production.

If you think about it, its the fact that OPEC has limited production that actually made shale oil profitable in the first place.

Thats really gotta have OPEC members thinking. They caused the shale oil boom through their actions. Now, we have developed the technology, and this is the big thing, we will continue to improve it, allowing more production at lower costs.

So OPEC is in a quandry. Do they remove production quotas, and let the price settle out naturally? Or do they limit production, keeping prices higher than they naturally would be, knowing full well that US producers will be innovative and find a way to make shale oil profitable?

OPEC members are in an unenviable position, one that will in the end benefit everyone due to lower energy prices, no matter how it shakes out.
If they had listened to economists 20 years ago when they were told artificially high oil prices will lead to increased competition and alternative energy sources, they would not be in this predicament.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:17 PM   #74
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IMO - Saudi Arabia is/will-continue to try and break the backs of shale and fracked oil by making those two oil production techniques un profitable. To various extents this endeavor will cause ripples in some economic conditions that will not be too good for those invested.


It will likely take a year or more before SA can actually get enough of the shale and fracking companies to stop producing for prices to again rise a substantial extent.


Basically, because of SA's and other producing nation's greedy price rises for last decade plus they shot themselves in the foot. Because... soon as prices rise high enough again the shale and fracking portions of the global oil industry will re ignite.


In other words... there will now always be oil-price leveling factors available... this will limit the price oil can raise to for foreseeable future.


Thank you Saudi Arabia!!!
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:19 PM   #75
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If they had listened to economists 20 years ago when they were told artificially high oil prices will lead to increased competition and alternative energy sources, they would not be in this predicament.
Agreed!

Innovation is driven by profit potential.

If OPEC had never controlled production, prices would have been lower. Our innovations in for example automotive fuel economy are a direct result of higher energy costs.

But then again, from OPEC members prospective, they have gained additional profit, for a period of decades, from higher oil prices. I hope they invested those profits wisely... Because their days of both political and economic power are numbered.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:51 PM   #76
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That's a lot of energy to make pellets, and a lot of wages!
You're right . We are looking at robot to replace one guy . But we have decided that nobody wants to work alone all day . We have more capacity with the 400 hp mill but we need to speed up flooring mill for more waste . Flooring sales are a little slow . It's a catch 22 . You can't let the sawdust back up either .
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #77
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You're right . We are looking at robot to replace one guy . But we have decided that nobody wants to work alone all day . We have more capacity with the 400 hp mill but we need to speed up flooring mill for more waste . Flooring sales are a little slow . It's a catch 22 . You can't let the sawdust back up either .
Just guessing a 400hp diesel at 10 gals/hr econ cruise to pellet 5 tons, plus 2 wages at $20/hr ???

Ain't exactly ecologically sound!
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:42 PM   #78
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400 hp electric
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:49 PM   #79
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Oil prices go up, people whine and complain. Oil prices go down, now the world is coming to an end!
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:56 PM   #80
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News discussions: Fuel source, price – etc… post Saudi leader’s death…

It's downhill for US after Saudi king dies: Kilduff.
conspiracy buffs see post #47, has it started???
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