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Old 01-09-2015, 08:39 PM   #21
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Better do your homework regarding freshwater zones (ie- useable drinking water) and fracking within oil zones (saltwater- unusable drinking water) before your emotion guides you...
That would depend on what sources are providing the homework, no? Industry sources (of any kind) have a spotty history with regards to truthfulness...
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:00 PM   #22
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Better do your homework regarding freshwater zones (ie- useable drinking water) and fracking within oil zones (saltwater- unusable drinking water) before your emotion guides you...
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That would depend on what sources are providing the homework, no? Industry sources (of any kind) have a spotty history with regards to truthfulness...
Found this after a 2 minute Google search; LA Times
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:08 PM   #23
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1973 all over again?

Found this after 30 seconds.

http://wvmetronews.com/2014/09/17/du...contamination/

...and this...

http://energyindepth.org/national/ho...contamination/
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:19 PM   #24
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Gentlemen, may I remind you this discussion is going on in the General Forum. Anyone wanting to take this political should go start a thread in OTDE.
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:34 PM   #25
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1973 all over again? Not hardly.

Actually, it's the exact opposite.

As for the speculators holding oil in tankers offshore........ at $40,000 a day storage, they may get their asses handed to them.

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Old 01-09-2015, 10:37 PM   #26
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As Ksanders said its all about Saudi trying to regain control of the prices. A couple years of sub $50/bbl oil will kill off much of the competition, and prices will rise to unprecedented levels. Big price fluctuations cause havoc in the free market system, whereby the low cost national oil companies benefit greatly in the long term.

Enjoy the cheap stuff while its here, because it won't last for long.

The oil tankers sitting offshore are more likely due to a fast changing oil price causing plenty of re-negotiating of supply contracts, reneging on deals, and associated legal battles.
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:57 PM   #27
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Perhaps that partly explains the large number of ships anchored in South San Francisco Bay.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:39 PM   #28
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SteveH,
No I agree. Not 73. We got gas on odd or even days depending on our license plates. And there were long lines.
But 73 may or may not come after this present present to fuel consumers.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:59 PM   #29
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These things tend to be self correcting. Abundant supply results in cheaper prices, cheaper prices result in increased consumption, increased consumption results in decreased supply and higher prices. The Saudis, who enjoy ridiculously cheap extraction costs can afford their attempt to control the markets for a wile, but in the end the markets will, as always, self adjust. As for the North American drilling/fracking operations who have a much higher extraction cost than the Saudis, they'll continue to feel the pain. There will be consolidation of enterprises, there will be capping of wells, but as soon as the price rises back to the level where it once again becomes profitable to extract the product, they will. And so it goes.......

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Old 01-10-2015, 12:15 AM   #30
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I just saw the movie Syriana again a few minutes ago. Nice reminder to how it all works. Spanking Putin this time.
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:31 AM   #31
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SteveH ......... well stated.

However that lesson in economics dosn't explain the crazy and wild instability. Should be rather stable by your definition. But I agree w you completely. Just like real estate. People only make so much money and there's a limited supply of land. As long as there's too many people land will be dear.
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:59 AM   #32
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The Kingdoms in the Middle East have much bigger objectives in mind than shutting down US producers. Look no further than how ISIS has self funded itself, oil. Iran can be brought into line with low prices, much to the delight of the UAE, SA and Qatar. Russia has been sent a strong message to abate its support of Middle East trouble makers.

The guys running the caliphates today were educated in Europe and the US. They know the score and are doing some bidding for us. But, as trumpeted by the LA Times and echoed by anti oil liberals all over North America, US oil was, is and always will be bad so this game of chicken is A-OK in their singularly focused minds.

Hooray for this cruising seasons lowered costs, as previously stated enjoy it while we can!
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:43 AM   #33
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Regarding oil price stability. It's a commodity traded on futures contracts and as such is subject to large price swings.

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Old 01-10-2015, 11:47 AM   #34
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Regarding oil price stability. It's a commodity traded on futures contracts and as such is subject to large price swings.

SteveH
Exactly: no need to actually store the oil in oil ships, it's all done 'on paper'.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:09 PM   #35
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Exactly: no need to actually store the oil in oil ships, it's all done 'on paper'.
I have been involved with oil and other commodity contracts where it is take or pay. Best to take. All over the world tankers, rail cars, barges, on land storage tanks, warehouses, docks, etc are stuffed with commodities that are awaiting a trip to the refinery, smelter, flour mill or fabricating facility. Part of the cost structure that we all end up paying for eventually in higher or lower commodity prices.

Those Wheaties you just had for breakfast could well have come from an Iowa silo where the feedstocks had been stored for many months or more. For sure high end Bourbon has been sitting around for awhile.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:13 PM   #36
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I have been involved with oil and other commodity contracts where it is take or pay. Best to take. All over the world tankers, rail cars, barges, on land storage tanks, warehouses, docks, etc are stuffed with commodities that are awaiting a trip to the refinery, smelter, flour mill or fabricating facility. Part of the cost structure that we all end up paying for eventually in higher or lower commodity prices.

Those Wheaties you just had for breakfast could well have come from an Iowa silo where the feedstocks had been stored for many months or more. For sure high end Bourbon has been sitting around for awhile.
I watched 'trading places' and thought pork belly futures was where it was at.

Didn't realise they actually stored the pork bellies somewhere....
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Old 01-10-2015, 01:48 PM   #37
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1973 all over again?

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For sure high end Bourbon has been sitting around for awhile.
In the barrels I hope!
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Old 01-10-2015, 01:50 PM   #38
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1973 all over again?

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Regarding oil price stability. It's a commodity traded on futures contracts and as such is subject to large price swings.

SteveH
I think a big part of the swings is that both supply and demand have a time lag in response to market signals. So something disrupts the market, the price keeps changing while everyone adapts. Then once they adapt, price has overshot what would be equilibrium. But this one has been an eye opener.

Over the last several years, I have been surprised by how relatively stable prices have been. Then this.

Complicated stuff.
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Old 01-10-2015, 03:59 PM   #39
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Hey,

Cheaper diesel means better for me at 600 gallons.....
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:37 PM   #40
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Based on what we're hearing and reading here in Taiwan at one of the companies with a heavy interest in oil, both using it and shipping it, Sunchaser is spot on with his post #32. It's all about manipulating the market for the purpose of controlling the political situation with oil economics being the leverage. Maintaining or regaining control of the market is a nice side benefit.
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