Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-14-2016, 09:15 AM   #41
Guru
 
City: Fort Myers
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 954
I'd rather be on the water with FF with no liability then on the roadway with many that have suspended licenses and NO insurance all the while on their cell phone!
__________________
Advertisement

Marlinmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 09:30 AM   #42
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"But you not carrying liability" and "causing a million or millions of dollars worth of damage",,,,,,,,

So your liability policy will cover a few million in damage?

Might pay to read the policy.YOU could be on the hook when it reaches the limits
Yes, the combination of it and my umbrella will. Rest assured I've read every word of the policy and had it reviewed by a professional in the insurance industry and an attorney.
__________________

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2016, 09:32 AM   #43
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlinmike View Post
I'd rather be on the water with FF with no liability then on the roadway with many that have suspended licenses and NO insurance all the while on their cell phone!
I don't want to be on the road with them either and I dislike that I have to pay extra because they drive without licenses and insurance. The cell phone is a different subject.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2016, 09:01 PM   #44
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"Are you saying you carry no liability insurance either?"

Usually Hard to get with out hull insurance,and boat survey.

Only insurance is a tow boat policy when we go great distances inshore.
check into skisafe.com

I got 300K liability for $450/yr with no survey. My boat is a 1983 43' ocean alexander.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2016, 07:43 AM   #45
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
"I got 300K liability for $450/yr with no survey."

But some folks claim Millions and Millions is required?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 07:18 AM   #46
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
I like to live dangerously.

The way I figure it, if I was so worried about the boat sinking and needing to insure that level of damage it may cause...

I would ditch that one and buy one that didnt make me worry like that.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 05:15 PM   #47
Guru
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,425
Sinking? Most likely it catches fire at the dock, and the fire spreads to a bunch of other boats.

My third party liability coverage is $10 million, which seems about the right amount to carry.
__________________
Brian
Insequent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2016, 05:40 PM   #48
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"I got 300K liability for $450/yr with no survey."

But some folks claim Millions and Millions is required?
That a claim in an extreme case could exceed the sum insured is no reason to refuse to cover common claim amounts.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2016, 07:55 AM   #49
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
"That a claim in an extreme case could exceed the sum insured is no reason to refuse to cover common claim amounts."

The most common claim amount is probably a ding from a fender sliding out of place.

Burning down the marina is probably less common.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 07:10 AM   #50
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
far more boats sink than burn.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 07:14 AM   #51
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 997
Forgot to include the link...

Top 10 BoatUS Marine Insurance Claims - Seaworthy Magazine - BoatUS
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 09:23 AM   #52
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbu22 View Post
It may be the "last thing" in your eyes, Peter, but for most of us the real world intervenes in these decisions. The extreme opacity of the insurance business requires a team of Philadelphia lawyers to decode the tiny type word-salad terms of a policy. It is fascinating to me that the so-called underwriters will take all of the information you listed (and sometimes more), apply their scientific risk analysis, and come up with (in my case) quotes that vary by a factor of 5 (top to bottom) for the "same" coverage.

With your expertise, you can probably spot these disparities a mile away. For nubs like me, it may not be so obvious or even evident. Professionally, I sometimes become peripherally involved in insurance litigation - funny how the lawyers for a megacorp insured and the lawyers for the megacorp insuror can read the same words on the same piece of paper that they both agreed to the year before and come to 12 figure disagreements. Not sure the average boat owner has a real basis for comparison other than the basic (policy professed) coverage numbers and cost. Agree that there are quality factors in insurance, but it's a challenge to figure them out.
Regarding premium differences amongst different policies: assuming each policy has the same base coverages, what you see is called "the appetite of the markets". Think of it this way- you need to buy a car, and the basic requirements are 4 wheels, 4 doors, 4 cylinder, auto transmission.

A Mercedes, Kia, Chevy, Mazda, and Opel all fit the base needs- with sometimes wildly differing prices.

Same goes for yacht policies- you will see a difference in premium, because each insurer has different risk tolerances. Hence, pricing alone should not be the determining factor in selecting a policy. As for policy language; yes, I have the benefit of years of experience reading and deciphering policy language- but it's not really all that hard to understand. The typical policy, from front to back, starts with the definitions, and ends with the various coverages. AND- your agent/ broker should be that subject matter expert for you should something be too confusing.

Aside from being a local (as in TF local) insurance guy, I am in the real world- I have to shop for coverages just as you do for Pau Hana and tender, and I get no special breaks because I'm in the business.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 09:06 PM   #53
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 33
It's like this: do you want insurance that pays when you have a claim, or do you want to show price? There is a reason for the different premium prices, and sometimes it is a mistake in calculation. But make no mistake about it, there are many many big name insurance companies that simply do not pay. So if you are with one of those, good luck when the time comes. I am in the marine towing and salvage business. I have been since 1972. Don't shop price, shop insurance that pays. It will put a policy in a whole different light. For example, I have stored a vessel with a steering system that failed when the boat was two weeks old. Resulted in a capsize and both occupants injured badly. Insured value 72k. Insurance companies offer after 14 weeks is 46k and we will let you buy the boat back. The insurance business is severely under regulated.
jerryreliable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 09:11 PM   #54
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 33
1996 Hurricane Fran

Yep says the adjuster, that is your 36' sloop up in the trees on that hill. It's insured for $8,900. Here's your check for $6,050 for your prorated value.

So you ask about removing the boat from that hill and re floating it. The adjuster says he already paid you, and that is all there was. He walks away, like a good neighbor.....

I helped that owner out.
jerryreliable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 11:21 PM   #55
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryreliable View Post
Yep says the adjuster, that is your 36' sloop up in the trees on that hill. It's insured for $8,900. Here's your check for $6,050 for your prorated value.

So you ask about removing the boat from that hill and re floating it. The adjuster says he already paid you, and that is all there was. He walks away, like a good neighbor.....

I helped that owner out.
Depending on the policy, that may or may not be true. In the example you cited, if the assured is paid for the CTL (constructive total loss) of the vessel, it's not the responsibility of the assured to move the boat- it's the insuring company's problem, because they settled the claim and (per all policy language) are now the owner of the vessel.

If it's a partial loss, then the claim process would include removing the vessel from the tree, refloating, and repairing.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 06:01 AM   #56
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,787
Valuing a policy on price alone is a bad deal on boat insurance. I can think of several traps boat owners can fall into:

Damage caused by preventable mechanical failure: If the claim is the result of mechanical failure (loss of steering etc) and that was the result of lack of maintenance, some policies may deny coverage

Loss of a towed dinghy, many policies will not cover the dinghy when towed. Also if it is not locked at a dinghy dock

Loss of coverage when not enough crew or wrong person in command. Some policies require a second crew member (especially overnight) and most limit who can be in command (your son uses the boat and you are not aboard).

For sailors and those trawlers with masts, there is a coverage issue with uninspected rigging that fails. Some policies deny coverage for rigging failures if the rigging is more than 10 years old and has not be inspected (undefined).

Geographic limits: 50 miles offshore means 50 miles offshore. Some policies are violated when a boater crosses the Big Bend on the eastern Gulf of Mexico. Some policies limit how far north or east you can go in Canada, Haiti and Cuba are out and also in the Caribbean the 60 degree east limit stops coverage for the east side of some islands

These may not be important for most boaters but it is important to know that you have coverage for the way you use your boat.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 08:53 AM   #57
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Indeed- hence, my admonishment that all of us need to read our policies to understand what is and what is not covered.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 11:07 AM   #58
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pau Hana View Post
Indeed- hence, my admonishment that all of us need to read our policies to understand what is and what is not covered.
Read and understand every page and every word of your policies. Of all your insurance policies. Auto is fairly standard in all states. Homeowners fairly standard in some states, but still can have critical exclusions. You've seen the tv commercials over the years where one thing happens causing another causing another then another and that last one lands on your house. All other policies are pretty much free to write as they want. Understand you and the insurance company are adversaries. They want to limit their liability and charge you the most they can. You want to pay the least and be covered by everything.

Every exclusion in a policy is carefully designed to reduce their liability and your coverage.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 11:33 AM   #59
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post

Every exclusion in a policy is carefully designed to reduce their liability and your coverage.
Sounds like same planned abject of many of the Bills in congress!
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012