Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Pender Island
Country: Canada
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
Wishbone Non-Fouling Anchor

Here's a new one.... These anchors were made I think in the 70s by Wishbone Marine Products of Pompano Beach Florida ...... anyone used one of these ?????? What was your experience ?????? thnx. john
__________________
Advertisement

Lucy 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Link....?
__________________

Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 09:07 PM   #3
Guru
 
LaBomba's Avatar
 
City: Beaverton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Airswift
Vessel Model: Ontario Yachts Great Lakes 33
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 819
Here is what the patent says that was taken out in 1979. Looks like a Danforth but with wishbone arms.

A non-fouling fluked anchor having a yoke-like shank in which the yoke arms are arcuate and pivotally attached to a pointed, center mounted fluke such that the arcuate arms of the shank provide for variable positioning of the fluke point to insure initial penetration of the fluke point in sea floor bottoms having different degrees of hardness. The fluke tip, the yoke frame, and the anchor line tether establish a three point contact with the sea bottom. The arcuate yoke shank arms allow a variable initial penetration angle of the fluke from 15 degrees to approximately 67 degrees. As a relatively harder sea bottom is encountered the anchor, due to the action of the arcuate yoke will pivot to provide a steeper fluke angle to insure penetration. Once the fluke has penetrated the bottom the anchor will then assume the secured position at the conventional holding angle.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=pictur...24&tx=55&ty=22
__________________
Allan & Ann
Airswift
LaBomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM   #4
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,919
Much better than anything else out there no matter what all the "new" anchor geeks say....
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 02:45 AM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Much better than anything else out there no matter what all the "new" anchor geeks say....
And you know this by what experience pray tell...?
Actually, Psneeld, I know you are just being provocative. What is interesting about that wishbone thing though, is the fluke, and fluke to shank angle is remarkably like my Sarca, but whereas that wishbone anchor could well end up flat on its back, the roll bar on the Super Sarca flips it over, so it always ends up fluke down. So, ironically....you are not far wrong. The S Sarca actually capitalises on the near perfect fluke and angle, and then improves on it.

Y'asked for that, didn't yuh...?
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 10:35 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
City: Pender Island
Country: Canada
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
la fluke

This anchor is set up so that the fluke swivels about 35 degrees so flipping over is not going to happen ,,,,, the one that's available is stainless .. selling for $100 ............. too good a deal and looks like too good an anchor ...
Lucy 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #7
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Peter'

I've never said this on this forum but

GIVE ME A BREAK

How on earth is the Wishbone "thing" (as you call it) going to "well end up flat on its back"

You tell us what the "back" of the Wishbone anchor is.

The roll bar is an unusual method of orienting an anchor to do it's work. There are many other much more tried and proven ways to orient an anchor for work. Most are more like the Wishbone than the roll bars.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #8
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,506
As Eric pointed out, there is no wrong side for the Wishbone. The drawbacks were that you can't hang it off the bow, it needs to be stored on deck, and I seem to remember it would pick up a ball of grass, like a Danforth and not set. It really is no better than a Danforth and harder to stow.
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:45 AM   #9
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Hoppy,
I see one feature that should be WAYYYY better than a Danforth. The wishbone shaped shank will be VERY unlikely to bend compared to the straight and skinny Danforth shank. And getting rocks stuck in between the flukes shouldn't be a problem either.

But your'e right about the storage issue. That's probably the single most important reason the Bruce got so popular.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: Pender Island
Country: Canada
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
you think?????

Is this from personal experience or ?????? Most people up this way use Danforths without too much problem ......... the anchor is 20 lbs and "Breadbasket" is 26 feet -- the tables say this anchor would be an overkill-which is a good thing !! So with a heavier"yoke" on this anchor how much chain do you think I'd need ?????? john
Lucy 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 06:31 PM   #11
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,506
Hi Eric, somewhere around the store I have a Danforth 12H that got caught in a propeller. The shank is twisted around the rope so tight that the rope had to be cut to free the anchor. There is still a piece of rope caught in there. The damn thing looks like a cork screw with a piece of 1/2" rope in the middle. The boat was in the Bahamas when it happened and the owner rerigged the anchor and continued to use it for the rest of the trip.

I know what you mean about bent shanks on Danforth anchors. I once chartered a 36GB in the Florida Keys. I spent most of the first night trying to get a Danforth with a slightly bent shank to hold. It just wouldn't.

John, The Danforth is a very good anchor. The only complaint I hear, and have had personal experience with, is that in the type of grass bottoms we have here and in the Bahamas they will often pick up a ball of grass between the shank and flukes. This prevents them from setting.
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 07:17 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Peter'
I've never said this on this forum but
GIVE ME A BREAK
How on earth is the Wishbone "thing" (as you call it) going to "well end up flat on its back"
You tell us what the "back" of the Wishbone anchor is.
The roll bar is an unusual method of orienting an anchor to do it's work. There are many other much more tried and proven ways to orient an anchor for work. Most are more like the Wishbone than the roll bars.
Eric, did you get out the wrong side of the bed today?
I'm sorry if my comment seemed ill-informed, but the one picture I can find of the thing does not make it clear exactly how it works...it is a very poor picture, I admit......

Google Image Result for http://www.hansanchor.com/images/History/H11-Wishbone-01.jpg

On the other hand my Google search did come up with this comment on a forum.......

"Is there anybody out there that has ever had any experience with a "Wishbone" anchor?? They were sold back in the early seventies. I would like to hear from you."

"Yes, they are poor to mediocre therefore a failure. Note, NO ANCHOR, no matter how good or how well promoted can RELIABLY reset on a tide change."

While I would certainly take issue with that last sentence, as did others on the forum concerned, I have no personal experience of a Wishbone anchor, and have never seen one, but if the fluke can flip from one side of the shank to the other, then what the heck is there to drive the fluke tip in - just relying on it being dragged along and hopefully digging in..? HopCars comment would seem probably valid....

"As Eric pointed out, there is no wrong side for the Wishbone. The drawbacks were that you can't hang it off the bow, it needs to be stored on deck, and I seem to remember it would pick up a ball of grass, like a Danforth and not set. It really is no better than a Danforth and harder to stow."

In fact to me I would think it inferior to a Danforth....however as far as the OP is concerned the one they are looking at would seem more than adequate for the size of their boat, so I'd say go for it, and we'll all be interested in your experience with it. I am always willing to be proved wrong, and learn new things.
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
City: Pender Island
Country: Canada
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
now boys.......

here's the thing --- this anchor is set up much like the Danforth with the base of the fluke having "wings" on the base of both faces .. which direct the fluke into the bottom when dragged .... unlike the Danforth the single shank has been replaced with a modified triangular "double" shank .. which as the lit. states prevents the anchor line from fouling on the anchor ....... stay calm!! jp
Lucy 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:10 AM   #14
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy 11 View Post
here's the thing --- this anchor is set up much like the Danforth with the base of the fluke having "wings" on the base of both faces .. which direct the fluke into the bottom when dragged .... unlike the Danforth the single shank has been replaced with a modified triangular "double" shank .. which as the lit. states prevents the anchor line from fouling on the anchor ....... stay calm!! jp
or shells/rocks, etc locking the danforth's flukes to the shank preventing dig in.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 12:14 PM   #15
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Peter,

One could get a rock jammed in-between one of the shanks and the fluke and in that case the Wishbone wouldn't work if flipped over.

Yes the picture was not very clear. I'll PM you later.

Yes of course the Wishbone was not a success in the marketplace for the same reason the Bruce was but w storage on the bow aside I'll bet it was a good anchor. I wouldn't be surprised if the Claw anchor isn't STILL the best seller in the world.

The anchor I want to hear about is the Manson Boss.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 03:04 AM   #16
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Yes, It sounds interesting, but when you look at it, it seems like the Supreme, with convex fluke, but with more pronounced winglets, to replace the roll bar.
In a way, making it rather like the Boss being to the Supreme, what the Sarca's Excel is to the Super Sarca. Ie a more elegant evolution, and better suited to the modern slotted bowsprit type of anchoring set-ups.
Note they have boldly retained the trip slot. Does that suggest anything, seeing they are claiming it as certified worlds safest anchor. I note they use something called a preventer...the Sarca does not need that either. I'm interested to see how that could be actuated from the surface without a second line down to it.

Sail-World.com : Top anchor producer Manson releases the Manson Boss - and more

Ok, found a bit more about it here.....
http://www.superyachtdoc.com/anchors.html

Scroll right down to the Boss, there it describes the slot preventer thingie a bit more and with more side on view one can see the admitted Spade anchor influence as well. That should mean deep penetration and maybe quite good short scope performance.

Waydago Eric...?
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 11:27 AM   #17
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Lucy 11,
Yea I think it may work well for you. Just a guess though as I've not sure I've even seen a Wishbone that I can remember but I think it's a good concept. Do you have a backup? I had one radical anchor that was the devil to get set but worked very well when it did.

We have the same type and size of boat (I think). I use anchors about 18lbs most of the time w 3' of 3/8ths chain and 12' of 5/16ths chain attached to 330' of 5/8ths nylon "Brait" (not to be confused w braid. 1/2" three strand would be fine for my boat and probably yours if you guard for chaffing.

Later on this summer we'll be up your way.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 11:48 AM   #18
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Peter,
Thanks for the links. I've seen the Boss and picked it up by hand. It seems very light. I usually like light things but I sense this anchor is too light. I don't think it's going to break but usually I don't bend anchors back to straight and use them again.

I have little to gain in performance from my XYZ and Manson Supreme but I'd bet at least small sums of money the Boss would outperform all anchors. All anchors that I know about.

Don't think the Boss is comparable to the SARCA Excell. Not much similarity at all that I can see except it's position in the manufacturers lineup. The Excell is more like the Delta.

I tried to see the Practical Sailor anchor test claimed to be in the February issue but failed to see it. They wanted money.

Peter I'm working on my old Dreadnought anchor to conform it's throat angle to what Rex advised. I've figured out a good way to do it. Gotta get some JB weld.

I think you're right about the wrong side of the bed .. sorry.
I've been having to say that too often lately.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 10:03 PM   #19
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Peter wrote;

"While I would certainly take issue with that last sentence, as did others on the forum concerned, I have no personal experience of a Wishbone anchor, and have never seen one, but if the fluke can flip from one side of the shank to the other, then what the heck is there to drive the fluke tip in - just relying on it being dragged along and hopefully digging in..? HopCars comment would seem probably valid...."

The Wishbone must have something like the pads or skids (2 ea) shown on this Danforth that raise the center of the anchor so 50% of the weight of 90% the anchor is felt at the fluke tips. And some of the drag forces of the pads is transferred to the fluke tips. The fluke presents itself to the bottom at a very shallow angle but at least 7 to 10 degrees.

The second photo is of my Dreadnought and it's pad is quite different. It is bigger raising the head of the anchor where the shank attaches higher for an increased angle of attack. It drags along at closer to right angles and it's drag transfers more force (downward) at the fluke tips. Seems to work well as the one and only time I've used this anchor it set immediately. No dragging at all.

I'm just guessing that's the way the Wishbone sets as I haven't seen a good picture nor have I seen one in person. Perhaps Lucy 11 could send a good picture?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71730.JPG
Views:	106
Size:	136.1 KB
ID:	16515   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0206 copy 2.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	101.5 KB
ID:	16516  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 05:50 AM   #20
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Eric, that Dreadnaught looks like one mean and business-like piece or bottom-grabbing iron. Its weight alone should make it work well, let alone when it digs in. But I don't want it to kill yah getting it up. You do have a powered winch now, don't you..?
__________________

Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012