Wishbone Non-Fouling Anchor
- Thread starter Lucy 11
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
LaBomba
Guru
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2012
- Messages
- 1,240
- Location
- Canada
- Vessel Name
- Looking Glass
- Vessel Make
- Carver 370 Voyager
Here is what the patent says that was taken out in 1979. Looks like a Danforth but with wishbone arms.
A non-fouling fluked anchor having a yoke-like shank in which the yoke arms are arcuate and pivotally attached to a pointed, center mounted fluke such that the arcuate arms of the shank provide for variable positioning of the fluke point to insure initial penetration of the fluke point in sea floor bottoms having different degrees of hardness. The fluke tip, the yoke frame, and the anchor line tether establish a three point contact with the sea bottom. The arcuate yoke shank arms allow a variable initial penetration angle of the fluke from 15 degrees to approximately 67 degrees. As a relatively harder sea bottom is encountered the anchor, due to the action of the arcuate yoke will pivot to provide a steeper fluke angle to insure penetration. Once the fluke has penetrated the bottom the anchor will then assume the secured position at the conventional holding angle.
http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=pictu...1&tbnh=50&tbnw=97&start=0&ndsp=24&tx=55&ty=22
A non-fouling fluked anchor having a yoke-like shank in which the yoke arms are arcuate and pivotally attached to a pointed, center mounted fluke such that the arcuate arms of the shank provide for variable positioning of the fluke point to insure initial penetration of the fluke point in sea floor bottoms having different degrees of hardness. The fluke tip, the yoke frame, and the anchor line tether establish a three point contact with the sea bottom. The arcuate yoke shank arms allow a variable initial penetration angle of the fluke from 15 degrees to approximately 67 degrees. As a relatively harder sea bottom is encountered the anchor, due to the action of the arcuate yoke will pivot to provide a steeper fluke angle to insure penetration. Once the fluke has penetrated the bottom the anchor will then assume the secured position at the conventional holding angle.
http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=pictu...1&tbnh=50&tbnw=97&start=0&ndsp=24&tx=55&ty=22
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,104
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Much better than anything else out there no matter what all the "new" anchor geeks say....
And you know this by what experience pray tell...?
Actually, Psneeld, I know you are just being provocative. What is interesting about that wishbone thing though, is the fluke, and fluke to shank angle is remarkably like my Sarca, but whereas that wishbone anchor could well end up flat on its back, the roll bar on the Super Sarca flips it over, so it always ends up fluke down. So, ironically....you are not far wrong. The S Sarca actually capitalises on the near perfect fluke and angle, and then improves on it.
Y'asked for that, didn't yuh...?
la fluke
This anchor is set up so that the fluke swivels about 35 degrees so flipping over is not going to happen ,,,,, the one that's available is stainless .. selling for $100 ............. too good a deal and looks like too good an anchor ...
This anchor is set up so that the fluke swivels about 35 degrees so flipping over is not going to happen ,,,,, the one that's available is stainless .. selling for $100 ............. too good a deal and looks like too good an anchor ...
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter'
I've never said this on this forum but
GIVE ME A BREAK
How on earth is the Wishbone "thing" (as you call it) going to "well end up flat on its back"
You tell us what the "back" of the Wishbone anchor is.
The roll bar is an unusual method of orienting an anchor to do it's work. There are many other much more tried and proven ways to orient an anchor for work. Most are more like the Wishbone than the roll bars.
I've never said this on this forum but
GIVE ME A BREAK
How on earth is the Wishbone "thing" (as you call it) going to "well end up flat on its back"
You tell us what the "back" of the Wishbone anchor is.
The roll bar is an unusual method of orienting an anchor to do it's work. There are many other much more tried and proven ways to orient an anchor for work. Most are more like the Wishbone than the roll bars.
Last edited:
HopCar
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,308
- Vessel Name
- Possum
- Vessel Make
- Ellis 28
As Eric pointed out, there is no wrong side for the Wishbone. The drawbacks were that you can't hang it off the bow, it needs to be stored on deck, and I seem to remember it would pick up a ball of grass, like a Danforth and not set. It really is no better than a Danforth and harder to stow.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Hoppy,
I see one feature that should be WAYYYY better than a Danforth. The wishbone shaped shank will be VERY unlikely to bend compared to the straight and skinny Danforth shank. And getting rocks stuck in between the flukes shouldn't be a problem either.
But your'e right about the storage issue. That's probably the single most important reason the Bruce got so popular.
I see one feature that should be WAYYYY better than a Danforth. The wishbone shaped shank will be VERY unlikely to bend compared to the straight and skinny Danforth shank. And getting rocks stuck in between the flukes shouldn't be a problem either.
But your'e right about the storage issue. That's probably the single most important reason the Bruce got so popular.
you think?????
Is this from personal experience or ?????? Most people up this way use Danforths without too much problem ......... the anchor is 20 lbs and "Breadbasket" is 26 feet -- the tables say this anchor would be an overkill-which is a good thing !!
So with a heavier"yoke" on this anchor how much chain do you think I'd need ?????? john
Is this from personal experience or ?????? Most people up this way use Danforths without too much problem ......... the anchor is 20 lbs and "Breadbasket" is 26 feet -- the tables say this anchor would be an overkill-which is a good thing !!
So with a heavier"yoke" on this anchor how much chain do you think I'd need ?????? john
HopCar
Guru
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,308
- Vessel Name
- Possum
- Vessel Make
- Ellis 28
Hi Eric, somewhere around the store I have a Danforth 12H that got caught in a propeller. The shank is twisted around the rope so tight that the rope had to be cut to free the anchor. There is still a piece of rope caught in there. The damn thing looks like a cork screw with a piece of 1/2" rope in the middle. The boat was in the Bahamas when it happened and the owner rerigged the anchor and continued to use it for the rest of the trip.
I know what you mean about bent shanks on Danforth anchors. I once chartered a 36GB in the Florida Keys. I spent most of the first night trying to get a Danforth with a slightly bent shank to hold. It just wouldn't.
John, The Danforth is a very good anchor. The only complaint I hear, and have had personal experience with, is that in the type of grass bottoms we have here and in the Bahamas they will often pick up a ball of grass between the shank and flukes. This prevents them from setting.
I know what you mean about bent shanks on Danforth anchors. I once chartered a 36GB in the Florida Keys. I spent most of the first night trying to get a Danforth with a slightly bent shank to hold. It just wouldn't.
John, The Danforth is a very good anchor. The only complaint I hear, and have had personal experience with, is that in the type of grass bottoms we have here and in the Bahamas they will often pick up a ball of grass between the shank and flukes. This prevents them from setting.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,104
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Eric, did you get out the wrong side of the bed today?
I'm sorry if my comment seemed ill-informed, but the one picture I can find of the thing does not make it clear exactly how it works...it is a very poor picture, I admit......
Google Image Result for http://www.hansanchor.com/images/History/H11-Wishbone-01.jpg
On the other hand my Google search did come up with this comment on a forum.......
"Is there anybody out there that has ever had any experience with a "Wishbone" anchor?? They were sold back in the early seventies. I would like to hear from you."
"Yes, they are poor to mediocre therefore a failure. Note, NO ANCHOR, no matter how good or how well promoted can RELIABLY reset on a tide change."
While I would certainly take issue with that last sentence, as did others on the forum concerned, I have no personal experience of a Wishbone anchor, and have never seen one, but if the fluke can flip from one side of the shank to the other, then what the heck is there to drive the fluke tip in - just relying on it being dragged along and hopefully digging in..? HopCars comment would seem probably valid....
"As Eric pointed out, there is no wrong side for the Wishbone. The drawbacks were that you can't hang it off the bow, it needs to be stored on deck, and I seem to remember it would pick up a ball of grass, like a Danforth and not set. It really is no better than a Danforth and harder to stow."
In fact to me I would think it inferior to a Danforth....however as far as the OP is concerned the one they are looking at would seem more than adequate for the size of their boat, so I'd say go for it, and we'll all be interested in your experience with it. I am always willing to be proved wrong, and learn new things.
Last edited:
now boys.......
here's the thing --- this anchor is set up much like the Danforth with the base of the fluke having "wings" on the base of both faces .. which direct the fluke into the bottom when dragged .... unlike the Danforth the single shank has been replaced with a modified triangular "double" shank .. which as the lit. states prevents the anchor line from fouling on the anchor ....... stay calm!! jp
here's the thing --- this anchor is set up much like the Danforth with the base of the fluke having "wings" on the base of both faces .. which direct the fluke into the bottom when dragged .... unlike the Danforth the single shank has been replaced with a modified triangular "double" shank .. which as the lit. states prevents the anchor line from fouling on the anchor ....... stay calm!! jp
psneeld
Guru
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter,
One could get a rock jammed in-between one of the shanks and the fluke and in that case the Wishbone wouldn't work if flipped over.
Yes the picture was not very clear. I'll PM you later.
Yes of course the Wishbone was not a success in the marketplace for the same reason the Bruce was but w storage on the bow aside I'll bet it was a good anchor. I wouldn't be surprised if the Claw anchor isn't STILL the best seller in the world.
The anchor I want to hear about is the Manson Boss.
One could get a rock jammed in-between one of the shanks and the fluke and in that case the Wishbone wouldn't work if flipped over.
Yes the picture was not very clear. I'll PM you later.
Yes of course the Wishbone was not a success in the marketplace for the same reason the Bruce was but w storage on the bow aside I'll bet it was a good anchor. I wouldn't be surprised if the Claw anchor isn't STILL the best seller in the world.
The anchor I want to hear about is the Manson Boss.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,104
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Yes, It sounds interesting, but when you look at it, it seems like the Supreme, with convex fluke, but with more pronounced winglets, to replace the roll bar.
In a way, making it rather like the Boss being to the Supreme, what the Sarca's Excel is to the Super Sarca. Ie a more elegant evolution, and better suited to the modern slotted bowsprit type of anchoring set-ups.
Note they have boldly retained the trip slot. Does that suggest anything, seeing they are claiming it as certified worlds safest anchor. I note they use something called a preventer...the Sarca does not need that either. I'm interested to see how that could be actuated from the surface without a second line down to it.
Sail-World.com : Top anchor producer Manson releases the Manson Boss - and more
Ok, found a bit more about it here.....
http://www.superyachtdoc.com/anchors.html
Scroll right down to the Boss, there it describes the slot preventer thingie a bit more and with more side on view one can see the admitted Spade anchor influence as well. That should mean deep penetration and maybe quite good short scope performance.
Waydago Eric...?
In a way, making it rather like the Boss being to the Supreme, what the Sarca's Excel is to the Super Sarca. Ie a more elegant evolution, and better suited to the modern slotted bowsprit type of anchoring set-ups.
Note they have boldly retained the trip slot. Does that suggest anything, seeing they are claiming it as certified worlds safest anchor. I note they use something called a preventer...the Sarca does not need that either. I'm interested to see how that could be actuated from the surface without a second line down to it.
Sail-World.com : Top anchor producer Manson releases the Manson Boss - and more
Ok, found a bit more about it here.....
http://www.superyachtdoc.com/anchors.html
Scroll right down to the Boss, there it describes the slot preventer thingie a bit more and with more side on view one can see the admitted Spade anchor influence as well. That should mean deep penetration and maybe quite good short scope performance.
Waydago Eric...?
Last edited:
Nomad Willy
Guru
Lucy 11,
Yea I think it may work well for you. Just a guess though as I've not sure I've even seen a Wishbone that I can remember but I think it's a good concept. Do you have a backup? I had one radical anchor that was the devil to get set but worked very well when it did.
We have the same type and size of boat (I think). I use anchors about 18lbs most of the time w 3' of 3/8ths chain and 12' of 5/16ths chain attached to 330' of 5/8ths nylon "Brait" (not to be confused w braid. 1/2" three strand would be fine for my boat and probably yours if you guard for chaffing.
Later on this summer we'll be up your way.
Yea I think it may work well for you. Just a guess though as I've not sure I've even seen a Wishbone that I can remember but I think it's a good concept. Do you have a backup? I had one radical anchor that was the devil to get set but worked very well when it did.
We have the same type and size of boat (I think). I use anchors about 18lbs most of the time w 3' of 3/8ths chain and 12' of 5/16ths chain attached to 330' of 5/8ths nylon "Brait" (not to be confused w braid. 1/2" three strand would be fine for my boat and probably yours if you guard for chaffing.
Later on this summer we'll be up your way.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter,
Thanks for the links. I've seen the Boss and picked it up by hand. It seems very light. I usually like light things but I sense this anchor is too light. I don't think it's going to break but usually I don't bend anchors back to straight and use them again.
I have little to gain in performance from my XYZ and Manson Supreme but I'd bet at least small sums of money the Boss would outperform all anchors. All anchors that I know about.
Don't think the Boss is comparable to the SARCA Excell. Not much similarity at all that I can see except it's position in the manufacturers lineup. The Excell is more like the Delta.
I tried to see the Practical Sailor anchor test claimed to be in the February issue but failed to see it. They wanted money.
Peter I'm working on my old Dreadnought anchor to conform it's throat angle to what Rex advised. I've figured out a good way to do it. Gotta get some JB weld.
I think you're right about the wrong side of the bed .. sorry.
I've been having to say that too often lately.
Thanks for the links. I've seen the Boss and picked it up by hand. It seems very light. I usually like light things but I sense this anchor is too light. I don't think it's going to break but usually I don't bend anchors back to straight and use them again.
I have little to gain in performance from my XYZ and Manson Supreme but I'd bet at least small sums of money the Boss would outperform all anchors. All anchors that I know about.
Don't think the Boss is comparable to the SARCA Excell. Not much similarity at all that I can see except it's position in the manufacturers lineup. The Excell is more like the Delta.
I tried to see the Practical Sailor anchor test claimed to be in the February issue but failed to see it. They wanted money.
Peter I'm working on my old Dreadnought anchor to conform it's throat angle to what Rex advised. I've figured out a good way to do it. Gotta get some JB weld.
I think you're right about the wrong side of the bed .. sorry.
I've been having to say that too often lately.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter wrote;
"While I would certainly take issue with that last sentence, as did others on the forum concerned, I have no personal experience of a Wishbone anchor, and have never seen one, but if the fluke can flip from one side of the shank to the other, then what the heck is there to drive the fluke tip in - just relying on it being dragged along and hopefully digging in..? HopCars comment would seem probably valid...."
The Wishbone must have something like the pads or skids (2 ea) shown on this Danforth that raise the center of the anchor so 50% of the weight of 90% the anchor is felt at the fluke tips. And some of the drag forces of the pads is transferred to the fluke tips. The fluke presents itself to the bottom at a very shallow angle but at least 7 to 10 degrees.
The second photo is of my Dreadnought and it's pad is quite different. It is bigger raising the head of the anchor where the shank attaches higher for an increased angle of attack. It drags along at closer to right angles and it's drag transfers more force (downward) at the fluke tips. Seems to work well as the one and only time I've used this anchor it set immediately. No dragging at all.
I'm just guessing that's the way the Wishbone sets as I haven't seen a good picture nor have I seen one in person. Perhaps Lucy 11 could send a good picture?
"While I would certainly take issue with that last sentence, as did others on the forum concerned, I have no personal experience of a Wishbone anchor, and have never seen one, but if the fluke can flip from one side of the shank to the other, then what the heck is there to drive the fluke tip in - just relying on it being dragged along and hopefully digging in..? HopCars comment would seem probably valid...."
The Wishbone must have something like the pads or skids (2 ea) shown on this Danforth that raise the center of the anchor so 50% of the weight of 90% the anchor is felt at the fluke tips. And some of the drag forces of the pads is transferred to the fluke tips. The fluke presents itself to the bottom at a very shallow angle but at least 7 to 10 degrees.
The second photo is of my Dreadnought and it's pad is quite different. It is bigger raising the head of the anchor where the shank attaches higher for an increased angle of attack. It drags along at closer to right angles and it's drag transfers more force (downward) at the fluke tips. Seems to work well as the one and only time I've used this anchor it set immediately. No dragging at all.
I'm just guessing that's the way the Wishbone sets as I haven't seen a good picture nor have I seen one in person. Perhaps Lucy 11 could send a good picture?
Attachments
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,104
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Eric, that Dreadnaught looks like one mean and business-like piece or bottom-grabbing iron. Its weight alone should make it work well, let alone when it digs in. But I don't want it to kill yah getting it up. You do have a powered winch now, don't you..?
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter Man,
Yes I think it is. The pic here is of the 45lb Dreadnought anchor I bought and took back. Bent in too many ways. The Dread remaining is the one I've tried and it's 35lbs. Quite heavy for Willy but too small for most boats here. The 35lb Dread is in perfect shape and I'm going to fill in some w the JB Weld to limit the throat opening to about 36 to 37 degrees. I was going to take it all apart but it's well riveted and really dosn't need it so I'll just coat it w some of that "cold galvanize" stuff in a spray can. It worked really well on my modified XYZ. You can see in the picture how the "pad" in the back of the anchor pushes the end up to give the flukes a better angle of attack than the Danforths.
In the 2nd pic you can see that I do now have a winch. A capstan really and it's apparently very sensitive to alignment because the anchor line gravitates/runs over to the motor side of the drum when pulling the anchor and it's all I can do to keep the line from running off the edge if the drum. The holes in the deck are already there and I don't want to re-drill them thereby making them larger but if I can't find/get a saddle style drum I may need to do that. As you can see the winch is very small but it seems to have plenty of power. It also makes plenty of noise. I practically jump overboard when I accidentally step on the switch while on the bow. I need one of those covers.
The new Manson Boss may be the anchor I was looking for years ago. The one I handled at the boat show was supposed to be 15lbs but it sure felt lighter to me. However it looked to have more fluke area than any anchor I've got. It's light enough w only a small amount of chain that it can be pulled very easily by hand and shows great promise that it will have plenty of holding power and perhaps good short scope performance as well. Wimpy or not I'll be watching that one.
Yes I think it is. The pic here is of the 45lb Dreadnought anchor I bought and took back. Bent in too many ways. The Dread remaining is the one I've tried and it's 35lbs. Quite heavy for Willy but too small for most boats here. The 35lb Dread is in perfect shape and I'm going to fill in some w the JB Weld to limit the throat opening to about 36 to 37 degrees. I was going to take it all apart but it's well riveted and really dosn't need it so I'll just coat it w some of that "cold galvanize" stuff in a spray can. It worked really well on my modified XYZ. You can see in the picture how the "pad" in the back of the anchor pushes the end up to give the flukes a better angle of attack than the Danforths.
In the 2nd pic you can see that I do now have a winch. A capstan really and it's apparently very sensitive to alignment because the anchor line gravitates/runs over to the motor side of the drum when pulling the anchor and it's all I can do to keep the line from running off the edge if the drum. The holes in the deck are already there and I don't want to re-drill them thereby making them larger but if I can't find/get a saddle style drum I may need to do that. As you can see the winch is very small but it seems to have plenty of power. It also makes plenty of noise. I practically jump overboard when I accidentally step on the switch while on the bow. I need one of those covers.
The new Manson Boss may be the anchor I was looking for years ago. The one I handled at the boat show was supposed to be 15lbs but it sure felt lighter to me. However it looked to have more fluke area than any anchor I've got. It's light enough w only a small amount of chain that it can be pulled very easily by hand and shows great promise that it will have plenty of holding power and perhaps good short scope performance as well. Wimpy or not I'll be watching that one.
Attachments
Last edited:
Nomad Willy
Guru
Oh yes very much so and as I thought they have provided for insuring an appropriate angle of attack of the fluke on setting. Just sheet metal fluke though w no reinforcing webs. It looks like it could have good veering performance too. The design would be worth pursuing but the mounting on the bow issue kills that. Good picture Lucy 11.
wishbone
The whole operation is stainless steel so aught to be pretty sturdy.... On the Breadbasket the anchor will be carried over/on the pipe rail .. near the bow ... there is a hydraulic winch(which I haven't tried yet) which will assist in pulling the anchor............ now that I'm on roll..... here's the breadbasket. on the hard... zincs and bottom paint AND the prop which I must replace.... 30x19x3 blade (LH) accepting a 1 /2 inch regular tapered shaft.........
The whole operation is stainless steel so aught to be pretty sturdy.... On the Breadbasket the anchor will be carried over/on the pipe rail .. near the bow ... there is a hydraulic winch(which I haven't tried yet) which will assist in pulling the anchor............ now that I'm on roll..... here's the breadbasket. on the hard... zincs and bottom paint AND the prop which I must replace.... 30x19x3 blade (LH) accepting a 1 /2 inch regular tapered shaft.........
Attachments
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,104
- Location
- Australia
- Vessel Name
- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
- Vessel Make
- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
On that point Eric, how would some sort of guide in an upright position just in front of the drum, placed in the optimum position to put the rode on the middle of the capstan drum work? As you only need a couple of turns on the drum, it does not have to be movable. Could be made of cheap galvanised iron, even wood maybe..? So it works as sort of a sacrificial guide. Could be just a vertical piece of thick ply with decent sized U-shaped slot in the upper edge, and mounted with a couple of brackets.
brian eiland
Guru
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 930
- Location
- USA & Thailand
- Vessel Name
- RunningTide
- Vessel Make
- 37 Louisiane catamaran
That is the same Wishbone anchor I used on a number of occasions. I used one out in the Bahamas on a 6 month cruise, and on another occasion a delivery trip island hopping from Ft Laud to Venezuela. It worked like a charm, except it was hard to store on a bowsprit. In rocky, or sanding bottoms it would grab pretty quickly, and it was a very centered grab. And if it tripped loose at night while swinging around, I could pretty much rely on its resetting on its own.
Where it was really unreliable was soft muck...like the harbor in Annapolis Md. Keep one boat on the hook there for quite sometime, and was always nervous. Fluke area was just not great enough for soft stuff
