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Old 10-13-2010, 08:44 PM   #101
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

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Marin wrote:If there is any twist to the anchor rode--- and around here the way boats are moved around their anchors by currents and wind*I'm sure there is--- it all comes out as soon as the anchor leaves the bottom.*
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So back to the original question, why does the chain kink like this?[img]download.spark?ID=809265&aBID=115492[/img]
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:08 PM   #102
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Because you dump the chain in a heap, rather than backing down on it once the anchor hits the floor.* Stop doing that, and your rode will stop doing this.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:39 PM   #103
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Delfin: Nice theory, but not so. My anchor frequenty comes up looking just like john's picture. I always let it unwind on the windlass and back down on it to set it properly. I don't have a swivel, I have a large shackle attached to the anchor and the chain attaches to the shackle with a smaller shackle. The large shackle frequently comes up in exactly the same orientation as in John's picture. I use a CQR, so the style of anchor seems to have nothing to do with it. I rarely have any twist in the rode, occasionally a 180 turn is necessary to flip the anchor over to its resting position in the roller.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:51 PM   #104
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

My swivel attaches directly to the Bruce, no shackle. And no mess or kinks like fedex is showing.
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:28 PM   #105
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Sunchaser, the problem went away for me as well with the installation of a stout swivel, since the chain can no longer flip a shackle over with the chain pulling in the opposite direction.* Pre swivel, by backing down on the chain as soon as the anchor hit the seabed, I rarely had the problem, although turning the anchor with a boat hook when it came up bass ackwards to bring it home still argued for the swivel.*

What's pictured seems like it could only happen when the chain doubles back on the shank, bringing the shackle, and in this case a 2 axis swivel with it, then doubling back leaving the shackle pointed in the wrong direction.* That might happen with current, but it always seemed to me to happen when I tried to just drop a pile of chain without backing down a bit to straighten everything out.* Just my experience, but apparently not Koliver's.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:05 PM   #106
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

WHY DOES THE CHAIN KINK LIKE THISANSWER


it dosn't


THE SWIVEL DOES


When this anchor was raised the swivel got into a position of 90 degrees (like a dog leg) and jammed enough so it didn't rotate (swivel). This caused what you see in the picture and I'm sure you could duplicate this on the deck of your boat * *....however I do not understand why the shackle pin isn't at the top of the slot on the anchor shank. The shackle pin could be hanging up on the chain link and some other force could be jamming the shackle but without the swivel this could not happen. Marin pointed out that the swivel is weak w a side load and xfedx's picture shows that the swivel can jam in a dogleg position. I think this picture should discourage anyone from using a swivel. And I think w an all chain rode and a bow roller w a grove in the center or some other means of keeping the chain in line so the chain does not rotate from the gypsy to the bow roller the anchor should come up the same every time.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:08 PM   #107
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Aaaagghhh!
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:15 AM   #108
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

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Aaaagghhh!
Yep.

*
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:43 AM   #109
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

So there you have it, the problem is too strong a swivel.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:55 AM   #110
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

OK guys I'll get the tomatoes off later. xfedex called for an answer and I delivered * *...gave it my best shot * * ...it's your turn.Here's a pic of an old fish boat w an anchor rode obviously twisted up a bit w Marins favorite anchor proudly on the bow and sadly a bit blemished but can you imagine the swiver this rig would require????
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:02 PM   #111
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Eric, it looks like he bent the darn thing.* I guess it must have held then in quite a blow......
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:30 PM   #112
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

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nomadwilly wrote:


Here's a pic of an old fish boat w an anchor rode obviously twisted up a bit w Marins favorite anchor proudly on the bow and sadly a bit blemished but can you imagine the swivel this rig would require????

The anchor or the whole boat?

*
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:22 PM   #113
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Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Well Marin here's the whole boat. The anchor probably got bent a long time ago * *...or was loaned out. It brobably got caught between rocks and pulled sideways. Even swivels don't like that. ha ha. I've seen several Bruce anchors bent in Craig * * ..mostly on larger boats.And probably in weather like we had last night.*I hate to see a boat neglected like this but one can see easily what a lady she once was.*And I know you like these old girls Marin.
Forgot the pic.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 14th of October 2010 01:26:17 PM
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:26 PM   #114
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

A hull like that has to be over a hundred yers old.
You think?
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #115
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Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

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skipperdude wrote:

A hull like that has to be over a hundred yers old.
You think?
Given its almost identical lines*and configuration*to some smaller, well-kept-up*salmon trollers in our marina, I'd guess the boat dates from the mid-1940s, just after the war.* It's original engine was most likely gas.

A lot of these little trollers were built in the 1940s in the Puget Sound harbors, out at Port Angeles on the San Juan Strait, and along the BC coast.


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 14th of October 2010 02:37:02 PM
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:43 PM   #116
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Interesting.*
I have seen quite a few centurian fishing boats up here.
Wood hulls still working the fishing trade a hundred years later.

SD
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Old 10-15-2010, 06:53 PM   #117
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

Oh * *...SD *..Just figured it out. Centurian = turn of the century. Yes?Some of you guys are going to like this after what I've said about swivels.
One of my favorite books (Chapman) just let me down. I'll quote the two older books.
"Swivels, are required on an all chain rode to prevent snarls". My newest Chapman book (1999) says "swivels are often an added refinement. Since swivels are a weak point, they must be large; on an all chain rode they are essential. Swivels, however, should not be used with twisted soft-laid synthetic lines; a hockle (kink) may be the result."
I still stand as previous (against swivels) but I thought you "swivelers" would like to hear/see the above.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:12 PM   #118
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

The 2009 version of Chapman has the same wording as the 1999 except*to add the sentence "Double-braided synthetic lines will not hockle, even though subjected to very heavy strains."
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #119
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

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Marin wrote:
We've decided that a swivel is unnecessary so we don't use one at all anymore.* We use a single shackle to conect the chain to the anchor and we put the round end of the shackle through the anchor shank and the shackle pin through the chain.
* * * ** I finally got around to doing this.... I no longer have a swivel.

******* It doesn't look as sexy as a swivel but is considerably stronger.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:51 AM   #120
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RE: Why does the anchor shackle Kink like this?

"It doesn't look as sexy as a swivel but is considerably stronger."

It might be stronger IF you purchased a RATED , Marked shakle , rather than unmarked Chinese junk from a local marina.

Underwater with the boat at stake , "Made in the USA " works for me.
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