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Old 11-03-2015, 07:57 PM   #21
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Al why didn't the guy start his engines to take the strain off his anchor, and retrieve it?
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:07 PM   #22
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That sucks but at least his insurance is steeping up to the plate, good luck with the repairs and I hope their speedy.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:10 PM   #23
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Sorry for the damage you sustained Al. Tough considering you maintain your boat well.
In my experience culpable third party`s insurers are unlikely to go beyond what are necessary repairs (though maybe their insured is encouraging them to do it well), if they think something needs checking out, best to let them. You`ll probably be required to sign a release at some stage, so be sure it gets fixed properly before you do.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:37 PM   #24
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Who is doing the repairs?

Has the insurance given you an appraisal and settlement for damage? If that is the case make sure you get fixed cost for the repair from the yard. Also get a time commitment. If you can see under the bow pulpit and its unpainted glass in the anchor locker, you should be able to any fracture that is structural. I think I would probably argue to remove the pulpit and rebed all bolts and lags on their dime, then there is no doubt as to the condition of the pulpit and deck. You really don't want to introduce any future water into deck coring. Hey the Salmon are running, you can always come up and borrow my dingy.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
Al why didn't the guy start his engines to take the strain off his anchor, and retrieve it?
I was tight on the rode and his boat had drifted west causing his rode to go slack and drift in front of us before the wind caught him broadside to us. From there, he drifted east with the wind into our pulpit.

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In my experience culpable third party`s insurers are unlikely to go beyond what are necessary repairs (though maybe their insured is encouraging them to do it well), if they think something needs checking out, best to let them. You`ll probably be required to sign a release at some stage, so be sure it gets fixed properly before you do.
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Has the insurance given you an appraisal and settlement for damage? If that is the case make sure you get fixed cost for the repair from the yard. Also get a time commitment. If you can see under the bow pulpit and its unpainted glass in the anchor locker, you should be able to any fracture that is structural. I think I would probably argue to remove the pulpit and rebed all bolts and lags on their dime, then there is no doubt as to the condition of the pulpit and deck. You really don't want to introduce any future water into deck coring.
We got the boat hauled and the pulpit and windlass removed to have a look underneath. The 3 lag bolts across the top of the pulpit were all deformed laterally from an side or fore/aft load. All three still retained their grip and came out uneventfully.



The area beneath the pulpit revealed damage to the caprail only. No disturbance to the gelcoat or sealant under the caprail. At the minimum, there are 3 caprail cracks here emanating from each bolt hole which will require repair.





The pulpit crack was apparent before the removal, but its length was revealed after removal. This shot doesn't show it well but the crack continues to the right of the plugged hole for several inches.



Now I await the detailed repair estimate. I'm going to insist on Epifane's Clear Gloss Varnish as that's what is used on all brightwork. Also, I need to specify the best sealant for the reassembly. Originally, I used silicone sealant which I now think was a poor choice, but disassembly revealed no water leaks. I am considering butyl tape, but am open to SikaFlex or other recommendations. When I mentioned the issue to the guy removing the pulpit, I cringed a bit when he said they typically use 5200 and it's "the industry standard". I want a good sealant with moderate adhesive bond. I want to be able to remove the pulpit in the future without damage to any components like we were able to do with the silicone.

The silicone needs to be removed completely to to allow proper adhesion and I'm open to suggestions on what's the best product for the job. What say you? Is butyl tape a good candidate for an application like this? SikaFlex?

She's going to need bottom paint and, while she's out, new zincs. The rub rail is missing a chunk at the bow after the allision, so I'm expecting a replacement. All thru hulls looks good. I'll check bonding continuity soon.

For as long as I've owned the boat, the swimstep has always flexed at the outer panels and I never knew why...but now I do. My step is formed from 3 panels - port, center and stbd. The outer panels are held in place with SS pins and retaining rings, not SS screws, washers and nuts. For some reason, the center panel is held in place rigidly with nuts and bolts. I will replace all swimstep hardware with new SS bolts, washers and fiberlock nuts.

It's still strange for me to see my boat on jacks. It's not something we regularly do in these parts since we can boat year round. Incidentally, the bottom growth was very minimal according to the yard guys. The paint was in good shape, but is ready for renewal. It actually looked better until it was pressure washed, then it started flaking off in large, thick pieces. I think if I had left it in, it would have easily gone another year or two with regular bottom cleaning. They yard guys attributed that longevity to a combination of fresh/salt water trips and regular use. They said that once it's pressure washed, it's bound to need repainting. Fact or fiction?
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:27 PM   #26
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My cap rail has Sika Flex.

I think you'll need to get all traces of the silicone for adhesion of the new stuff.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:39 PM   #27
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On my above water assemblies, we use 4000 instead of 5200. Easier to remove but seals well. Silicone is fine for places that won't suffer from water intrusion, but then what do you need sealant there for anyway.

Regarding bottom paint, so much depends on the type of bottom paint. My charter boat was power washed when hauled out for the season. We will touch up the wear areas and redo from the boot stripe to below the surface next spring. But then it will only be in the water for 6 months before it gets hauled for the winter again.

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Old 11-08-2015, 10:02 PM   #28
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My cap rail has Sika Flex.

I think you'll need to get all traces of the silicone for adhesion of the new stuff.
Any idea which Sika Flex is best for sealant with lower adhesion?
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Old 11-08-2015, 10:35 PM   #29
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Here's another pic I forgot to include.

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Old 11-08-2015, 11:08 PM   #30
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So sorry for the troubles - while the repairs are underway why not take a walk on the Camino and leave your regrets on the rock pile :-) Twas a great 300 mile trek.
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:15 PM   #31
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Hey FC!!! Welcome back from your hike!! I was following the pics on your blog. Wasn't sure when you were returning. Sore feet?
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:20 PM   #32
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Feet are fine - no problems at all. Thanks! We are already planning the next adventure - Tour de Mount Blanc
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Old 11-08-2015, 11:22 PM   #33
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Any idea which Sika Flex is best for sealant with lower adhesion?
Sikaflex 291 has been my go to formula for a wide range of projects. I would personally desire to use butyl tape but you asked for Sika.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:09 AM   #34
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This is the main reason I don't like bow pulpits.
Too easily damaged.
Supprised it dosn't happen more often .. maybe it does.
Holly smokes Snoopy! That's my exact feeling.

That said:

We do have a rugged metal anchor "chock" that came on bow of our Tolly; think it's original equipment. Protrudes but a few inches off the gunnel metal rub rail and holds the anchor shank and flukes well into the prow's deck area. I've never had problem with or because of it [yet] and don't plan to. But - I always shy away from purchasing boats with full-on pulpit that protrudes feet ahead of bow nose. In many years of boating I've seen several pulpits get damaged and cause damage... some of it pretty severe.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:12 AM   #35
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Al, My experience with butyl tape is it works very well with perfectly smooth surfaces. If you have any variations in the material that you are trying to seal it may not work well, at least it did not for me. If I have variations I use 4000UV. It will fill any divits and variations. Don't get me wrong though butyl works well for me with smooth surfaces.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:19 AM   #36
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I'm less of a fan of butyl tape as a sealant when heavy loads are involved. It seems that over time, I get some butyl squeezing out which requires additional cleanup. For hatches and widows I think it's a good application but for a pulpit that loads will vary, I'd use the Sika, or a 3m product you like.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:11 AM   #37
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Although I am not a fan of pulpits... just gotta luv all the rebuild suggestions learned by reading TF threads.


Good luck Al!!
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:18 AM   #38
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Any idea which Sika Flex is best for sealant with lower adhesion?
Al,
I think Craig nailed it in post #33. 291 bedding coumpound.

I may use 291 but another alternative would be Dolfinite. 291 will become solid like rubber. On teak the adhesive line can crack or break open and admit water so from then on the inside of the seam will be wet. That won't happen w Dolfinite. Much much more flexible w little adhesion. However if you were handed a stick of wood coated w Dolfinite you'd be a long time getting it all off. The downside is that the stuff can (but usually dosn't) ooze out of the seam months or possibly even years later. I did an anchor capstan/bow cleats plate 1" plywood bedding on my foredeck w Dolfinite. Was great in all respects but the oozing. Oozing out on the foredeck was no problem but oozing out in the summer under the deck in the berth on our sleeping bags and stuff we put there while underway was very unwelcome. Every now and then we had a sticky gooey mess on the berth. I got quite a bit of the stuff on a seat cushion and it's still there. I use the cushion in the garage and yard. Being totally exposed the Dolfinite is like leather now. I haven't pulled up the deckplate yet but know it will be easy and that is a very good thing. The stuff really does stay gooey almost (boating wise) forever. And it does keep the water out. So where you have fasteners holding parts together and don't need more adhesion it's excellent. Most have a mindset of any increase in adhesion is better and go w high adhesion sealants like 5200 and SikaFlex. My wife Christine calles the Dolfinite peanutbutter. But peanutbutter comes off much easier. Much easier.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:29 AM   #39
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I expect to see the next thread as "Would you prefer a Hatteras or Viking on your pulpit?
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:18 PM   #40
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Is that helpful to Al or are you blessing us w your humor?
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