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Old 03-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #1
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Weed and rock anchor

Marty wrote;
"My second anchor, now unused, is a 66lb Bruce. When we go back to the United States I will probably sell the Bruce and get a rock/weed anchor for use in those conditions"

I consider the Bruce to be a good rock anchor but not for weeds. What did you have in mind for the weed anchor and what would you consider to be an acceptable combination?

I cut out my comments about weed anchors. Want your opinion first.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:27 AM   #2
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The best style is one of these.

We have a steel folding 100lb unit that is very effective in deep weeds .

A trip line is always required in rocks , and caution in reversing tidal areas where the anchor line could foul the fluke that sticks up when set.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:20 AM   #3
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Gees another anchor discussion.

Old school was you carried two different types of anchor. Plough-QCR for rock and weeds and fluke-Danforth for loose sand/gravel. Plough/QCR was design to not get fouled with weeds, and to dig in bury it self in hard bottoms. The fluke/Danforth had larger area flukes for holding but more easily fouled with weeds.

To me the newer anchor still fall into either plough or fluke. However the new plough are scoop/hoe shape and the new fluke as still similar to the Danforth but are lighter. However the newer anchor have sharper and thinner points and edges which I believe is the reason they set/dig in better.

I think with a little improvement and modification of the older anchors that they can be improved. My bet is still on the Forjord which is a fluke type anchor but the flukes are narrower and set further apart then the Danforth. I have sharpened the points and edges, welded mudders to the out side of the fluke for more area and weight and increase the shaft max angle to about 40 degrees. I been thinking about modifying the QCR anchor by welding mudders on the back edge at an up ward slanted for more area and like the Delta to reduce the plough effect and act like a roll bar.

I am hoping the modified Forjord will be my primary all purpose, and the modified QCR and standard Danforth as secondary. Also carry two rodes, one all chain and one 50 ft of chain and rope. NOW all I have to do is actually out and try anchoring.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:46 AM   #4
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Marty wrote;
"My second anchor, now unused, is a 66lb Bruce. When we go back to the United States I will probably sell the Bruce and get a rock/weed anchor for use in those conditions"

I consider the Bruce to be a good rock anchor but not for weeds. What did you have in mind for the weed anchor and what would you consider to be an acceptable combination?

I cut out my comments about weed anchors. Want your opinion first.
Thinking for rock and weeds that a fisherman's anchor, sold by both Luke and Herresoff in folding modes would serve as a good anchor.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:02 AM   #5
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Exactly what I had in mind Fred and Marty. The Kedge type is taken to the greatest height in the Herreshoff design. By far the best Kedge. Some call the Kedge a Fisherman's Anchor. And surprisingly there are quite a few available today.

Many will think their "new generation" anchors are good in rock and weed. They aren't as useless as some but can't compare to the Kedge and especially the Herreshoff. The shank is too close to the fluke to get down between rocks on modern anchors and there is little weight on the fluke tip w some exceptions like the Claw. And the Claw has far too blunt of a fluke tip to be effective on/in weed.

Fred,
Interesting links.

Here's a pic of a Modern day Kedge working as a fisherman's anchor in Craig Alaska. In a skiff just about like mine except mine is tiller steered. And here is a link to a Practical Sailor mag test that included a Herreshoff anchor and note that it matched the holding power of a Claw in sand. Not bad for a practically ancient anchor.

Phill,
I think that's a good idea about the CQR. Could use some more area. But the CQR's weak link is probably it's setting difficulties. But by adding to the sides of the fluke a better angle may result for the tip to penetrate. Could be on to someth'in Phill. As to "old school" you must be referring to sailboaters.

So IMO the only anchor type that is excellent in rock AND weed is the Kedge.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:29 PM   #6
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There's a reason why charts have bottom composition marked...

There's a reason depth sounder manufacturers explain in detail returns and what they represent.

There's a reason there's a hollow on the bottom of a good leadline.

There's a reason why many say you have to think a little while boating.

Anchoring is a lot more about everything under the sun other than the anchor.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:26 PM   #7
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psneeld,
Indeed the bottom is much more important than the anchors we use.

But the murky old bottom in the dark or near dark is much less interesting to chat about than the anchors we use. AND we have some control over the anchors.

Good point though and we have had many discussions on various methods of anchoring. But not as many as on the anchors themselves.

Anchoring and anchors are very interesting IMO as evidenced by my frequent posts on anchors. Only design is more interesting and worth talking about. I asked for a design forum topic a long time ago and didn't get it. And rightfully so as few here are really interested in significant design issues. Thankfully I have BD.net.

But now as TF topics become less and less and TF members become more and more topics like anchoring (that seem not to die out) may become more important. And most of the people that poo poo talking more about anchors always seem to show up and post ... like you.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:49 PM   #8
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Put it down to morbid curiosity.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Gees another anchor discussion.

Old school was you carried two different types of anchor. Plough-QCR for rock and weeds and fluke-Danforth for loose sand/gravel. Plough/QCR was design to not get fouled with weeds, and to dig in bury it self in hard bottoms. The fluke/Danforth had larger area flukes for holding but more easily fouled with weeds.

To me the newer anchor still fall into either plough or fluke. However the new plough are scoop/hoe shape and the new fluke as still similar to the Danforth but are lighter. However the newer anchor have sharper and thinner points and edges which I believe is the reason they set/dig in better.

I think with a little improvement and modification of the older anchors that they can be improved. My bet is still on the Forjord which is a fluke type anchor but the flukes are narrower and set further apart then the Danforth. I have sharpened the points and edges, welded mudders to the out side of the fluke for more area and weight and increase the shaft max angle to about 40 degrees. I been thinking about modifying the QCR anchor by welding mudders on the back edge at an up ward slanted for more area and like the Delta to reduce the plough effect and act like a roll bar.

I am hoping the modified Forjord will be my primary all purpose, and the modified QCR and standard Danforth as secondary. Also carry two rodes, one all chain and one 50 ft of chain and rope. NOW all I have to do is actually out and try anchoring.
If you love a Forjord so much I have a 105lb on sitting in my drive way where it got dumped when I pulled that piece of shit off the front of my Ocean Alexander. It repeatedly didn't set even in the mud bottom at Port Ludlow (where a 5gal. Bucket of concrete anchor) should do the trick.
In the literally 2000+ last times I have anchored a boat 4 of the last 6 times the hook didn't set was the Forjord. The other was in a solid coral patch that the 200 lb ss ultra anchor drug across last month in the B.V. I. No anchor would set there..except a drilled one!
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:57 PM   #10
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psneeld,
Indeed the bottom is much more important than the anchors we use.

But the murky old bottom in the dark or near dark is much less interesting to chat about than the anchors we use. AND we have some control over the anchors.

Good point though and we have had many discussions on various methods of anchoring. But not as many as on the anchors themselves.

Anchoring and anchors are very interesting IMO as evidenced by my frequent posts on anchors. Only design is more interesting and worth talking about. I asked for a design forum topic a long time ago and didn't get it. And rightfully so as few here are really interested in significant design issues. Thankfully I have BD.net.

But now as TF topics become less and less and TF members become more and more topics like anchoring (that seem not to die out) may become more important. And most of the people that poo poo talking more about anchors always seem to show up and post ... like you.
Actually...since I've been here, seems like many more threads are about anchor types and design than anchoring techniques....but I'm not going back to prove it...just my guess.

Plus you outguessed yourself on my post.

No matter what anchor design you have...knowing these variables I talked about and how/where you can alter the equation in many anchorages can help any design set.

So my post is on topic and not poo pooing it at all.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:54 PM   #11
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The poo pooing comment was regarding the comments many make like "oh no not another anchor thread". Or a question followed by "I don't want to start another anchor thread" bla bla bla.

If you're innocent of that I'm sorry. I think most comments have been in jest though. Maybe all. I look fwd to them of course. The anchor talk as I find it interesting.

By the way charts up north are lacking for good bottom marks. I've been thinking about getting a bottom sampling device.

It was interesting to discover that some anchor designs have less ability to set at long scopes. I had always thought the longer the scope the better.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:22 PM   #12
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The poo pooing comment was regarding the comments many make like "oh no not another anchor thread". Or a question followed by "I don't want to start another anchor thread" bla bla bla…...
….. I look fwd to them of course. The anchor talk, as I find it interesting.
Yeeeehaaaa, thanks Eric…you just gave me permission to come in here……

Look, while it is quite likely we users of the new generation of multi-purpose anchors may sometimes came across as sounding…well...a bit evangelical in our enthusiasm, it is precisely because of discussions like the above that we get so worked up we just godda say something or we'll explode….

When you see posts like those above, (and many others over many threads), with all the concern over trying to match anchor with bottom, and the anxiety that causes, along with the sheer weight & cost of all that ordnance one must carry in order to try and do that, is it any wonder, when you have used an anchor that basically makes all that angst redundant yah feel you just hafta speak out..?

All I'm saying is…there are solutions out there…but… "there are none so blind as those who will not see". Sorry, that quote is biblical…but can be true…'course, it's one of those "if the cap fits" kind of statements...

Enter conventional wisdom grenade from FF..?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:46 PM   #13
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All of you on this forum have anchors that are much too small and they are all the wrong kind. You should all buy new anchors from me!
By the way, your chain isn't long enough.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:19 PM   #14
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Look, while it is quite likely we users of the new generation of multi-purpose anchors may sometimes came across as sounding…well...a bit evangelical in our enthusiasm, it is precisely because of discussions like the above that we get so worked up we just godda say something or we'll explode….
with the name of the anchor. Clue: a Safe And Rapidly Catching Anchor.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:33 PM   #15
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Hop Car what I lack is a good weed and rock anchor. Got everything else. What do you have in a good Herroshoff or classy Kedge anchor? I prefer the ones w the tapered stocks.

Bruce I recall "SAND and rock anchor".
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:47 PM   #16
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with the name of the anchor. Clue: a Safe And Rapidly Catching Anchor.
Scarce and Retail Challenged Anchor

Unobtainium. You can get as excited as you want, but if excuse us if we can't get excited about something we can't buy. That said Vegemite never really caught on here either...
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:58 PM   #17
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The poo pooing comment was regarding the comments many make like "oh no not another anchor thread". Or a question followed by "I don't want to start another anchor thread" bla bla bla.

If you're innocent of that I'm sorry. I think most comments have been in jest though. Maybe all. I look fwd to them of course. The anchor talk as I find it interesting.

By the way charts up north are lacking for good bottom marks. I've been thinking about getting a bottom sampling device.

It was interesting to discover that some anchor designs have less ability to set at long scopes. I had always thought the longer the scope the better.
Did I miss something? Which anchors have less ability set at longer scopes?
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:00 AM   #18
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Hop Car what I lack is ... good weed ... .
Eric, I thought they legalized that in your state!
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:18 AM   #19
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I'll have to take a picture of my favorite rock and grass anchor for you guys. It's a grapnel with four arms that have palms on them like a kedge. It would fold flat so you could store it flat on deck.

It was a favorite for Bahamas cruisers back in the sixties and seventies.

We imported them from Denmark until the Danes lawyers told them not to sell in the USA because their liability insurance wouldn't cover them here.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:38 AM   #20
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